The concept of Karma is rooted in authoritarian ideology

[kaosmark2]

So I've been thinking about karma lately, particularly in terms of when people reference it, which seems to be either to encourage people to do a nice thing, based on the universe rewarding them lately, or phrases along the line's of "Karma's a bitch", in reaction to something unpleasant happening to someone they don't like/don't approve of.

Obviously the basis of karma is that good/bad behaviour gets a reward/punishment in this lifetime, rather than the next as opposed to traditional religious concepts of heaven and hell, but it's still based upon the same fundamental ideal: The motivation to do the decent thing is based on the idea that it will ultimately benefit the person "doing good".

Further, people take delight in seeing "karma" exact vengeance for them. Taking delight in punishment for behaviour you disapprove of, wrapped us as "justice" is trusting in an absolute, controlling authority, that will do your dirty work for you. It doesn't actually matter whether it is God, the state, or the universe having some fundamental sense of "fairness", the concept is the same. Karma isn't actually any different, it's just a way to hope for retribution without having to trust in the state, or follow a major religion/believe in an afterlife.

Thoughts?

[TheGayTent]

There's no such thing.

[fred quimby]

So I've been thinking about karma lately, particularly in terms of when people reference it, which seems to be either to encourage people to do a nice thing, based on the universe rewarding them lately, or phrases along the line's of "Karma's a bitch", in reaction to something unpleasant happening to someone they don't like/don't approve of.

Obviously the basis of karma is that good/bad behaviour gets a reward/punishment in this lifetime, rather than the next as opposed to traditional religious concepts of heaven and hell, but it's still based upon the same fundamental ideal: The motivation to do the decent thing is based on the idea that it will ultimately benefit the person "doing good".

Further, people take delight in seeing "karma" exact vengeance for them. Taking delight in punishment for behaviour you disapprove of, wrapped us as "justice" is trusting in an absolute, controlling authority, that will do your dirty work for you. It doesn't actually matter whether it is God, the state, or the universe having some fundamental sense of "fairness", the concept is the same. Karma isn't actually any different, it's just a way to hope for retribution without having to trust in the state, or follow a major religion/believe in an afterlife.

Thoughts?

[jump]

Is not the real meaning of Karma something different to what we think it is now. Can't remember what (useful eh) and haven't got time to set it up but definately changed by the west.

[fred quimby]

Yes

and good Karma to make you a better person. no reward system involved

[kaosmark2]

So what we treat it as is in fact Western authoritarian ideals corrupting what was originally a completely different idea? Huh.

[jump]

So what we treat it as is in fact Western authoritarian ideals corrupting what was originally a completely different idea? Huh.

[5co77ie]

thoughts - can't beat a nice Korma

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

thoughts - can't beat a nice Korma

[oneeye]

I prefer chicken tarka; its like chicken tikka but otter

[feral chile]

So I've been thinking about karma lately, particularly in terms of when people reference it, which seems to be either to encourage people to do a nice thing, based on the universe rewarding them lately, or phrases along the line's of "Karma's a bitch", in reaction to something unpleasant happening to someone they don't like/don't approve of.

Obviously the basis of karma is that good/bad behaviour gets a reward/punishment in this lifetime, rather than the next as opposed to traditional religious concepts of heaven and hell, but it's still based upon the same fundamental ideal: The motivation to do the decent thing is based on the idea that it will ultimately benefit the person "doing good".

Further, people take delight in seeing "karma" exact vengeance for them. Taking delight in punishment for behaviour you disapprove of, wrapped us as "justice" is trusting in an absolute, controlling authority, that will do your dirty work for you. It doesn't actually matter whether it is God, the state, or the universe having some fundamental sense of "fairness", the concept is the same. Karma isn't actually any different, it's just a way to hope for retribution without having to trust in the state, or follow a major religion/believe in an afterlife.

Thoughts?

Edited September 19, 2013 by feral chile

[Guest]

I would have though that someone who does things, only in the hope of having a return of good karma, would be destined for bad karma, as the motivation is all wrong.

but then I'm not sure it exists at all. If you're a 'good' person, you're more likely to experience other good people, that's all

[kaosmark2]

I don't think karma is really to do with some kind of external force casting revenge, I think of it more as what you sow, you reap, kind of thing.

So if you're the sort of person who uses people, you're not likely to build up many fulfilling relationships.

And if you're a vindictive person, you're going to poison yourself with your own venom, and make yourself ill by twisting yourself up in knots and raising your blood pressure.

Whereas if you're a cheerful, giving person, you're likely to elicit warm responses in others, and feel even happier as a result.

So I think of it as more cause and effect than retributive justice.

[Guest]

I'm not really interested in whether it exists, I just thought the way people talk about it, particularly vengeful glee, is interesting, yet contradictory to the actual theme of it.

[kaosmark2]

I thought I was agreeing with you....

[Guest]

Yeah, I got that. I wasn't disagree, just adding a further comment.

[feral chile]

Certainly the way it's talked about nowadays it often treated as some form of justice. I agree with what you say though, I've never associated that with the idea of karma.

I'm not really interested in whether it exists, I just thought the way people talk about it, particularly vengeful glee, is interesting, yet contradictory to the actual theme of it.

[kaosmark2]

I think it's because people want to see balance in the world, so if you do something bad, the same thing will happen to you. of course, the world's not really like that. I think vengeful people create their own internal hell though - I wouldn't like to live inside the heads of some people I know.

[feral chile]

Yeah absolutely, I just find the way people talk about karma quite contradictory to other associated ideas and attitudes. I find the perception of it as some vengeful force a horrible concept, yet it's considered so wonderfully by others who hate traditional notions rooted in a similar sense of "justice".

[kaosmark2]

Even if there were a concept of your own deeds being revisited upon you, surely it would be so that you could gain insight from being at the receiving end, rather than vengeance?

it just doesn't fit in with the whole ethos.

[Guest]

'We' like a bit of revenge though, don't we. We judge people, decide what their fate should be, etc, etc.

Which, as has been said, is probably the opposite of what Karma might be about

[feral chile]

'We' like a bit of revenge though, don't we. We judge people, decide what their fate should be, etc, etc.

Which, as has been said, is probably the opposite of what Karma might be about

[Guest]

I suppose in a way we're all guilty of it. But the best revenge is always to forgive. People who haven't meant to hurt you will beat themselves up about it anyway, though if you had a go at them they'd feel vindicated, maybe. And nothing pisses off someone who's trying to get to you than your seeming oblivion of them and their petty little vendettas. It disempowers and frustrates them. Though, of course, they could then up their game.

Is that a lust for revenge? maybe - if it is, then I hold my hand up - guilty as charged.

[feral chile]

I don't think that's how most people would interpret revenge. That's more of a thoughtful way of how to make some progress, make any given situation better. Revenge doesn't give much thought to that, I think. It's more of a "this is how I feel and this is what I want to do about it, and if it doesn't make the situation any better for anyone else, then who cares, I feel better... for a short while"

of course, if you're making the situation better, but getting off on the fact 'they' feel worse, then that's not good either. Unless making them feel bad encourages them to contemplate what they've done

oh gawd, it gets complicated!