Game of Thrones discussion thread

[Winslow Leach]

It most likely was for this. Thats the world of GOT. But it also stimulates (or should) thought in the viewer about how our world see things and how thats evolved recently

I dont believe it was utterly pointless myself.

There is things people can learn from the our own dark history as humans from that scene.

Trying to project your idealised modern day western culture morals onto the world of GOT is not the way to go about it.

The darker side of the morals in the world of GOT show how we are only very recently, as a race, beginning to slowly move away from some of our more questionable morals..........

I'm not, I'm projecting my idealised modern day western cultural morals onto the narrative of GOT. It's a modern day western show written by modern day western writers and watched predominantly by modern day western viewers. You're talking about how the sexual violence is situated within the world of the show, I'm talking about how its situated within the narrative. It's a piece of narrative fiction, not some free-roaming fantasy sandbox.

The idea that it's only through rape that characters can fulfill their potential is pathetically prevalent in western narratives.

[ThomThomDrum]

I guess if it was that easy to get south of the wall, the Wildlings would have gone that a few series ago, rather than climbing it.

Well I for one would have thought that the East tower and the Bay of Seals would have/should have been under Nights Watch control making it difficult for enemies to pass south via the sea..............hence the Wildlings could not/would not do it

This however does not explain how Stannis and his army got north of the wall to Castle Black undetected

There is very much holes/inconsistencies/lack of explanatory information

[ThomThomDrum]

I'm not, I'm projecting my idealised modern day western cultural morals onto the narrative of GOT. It's a modern day western show written by modern day western writers and watched predominantly by modern day western viewers.

Its a world written about with a dark moral structure not too far removed from ours and reflects the history of our moral evolution. People being disgusted and shocked with it is the right sort of reaction. I personally dont see that as pointless TBH

[Winslow Leach]

Its a world written about with a dark moral structure not too far removed from ours and reflects the history of our moral evolution. People being disgusted and shocked with it is the right sort of reaction. I personally dont see that as pointless TBH

Found this from a Vulture article, sums it up quite well. Just substitute 'Jamie and Cersei' for 'Sansa and Ramsay'.

"I'm not opposed to shows depicting sexual violence, but rape-as-prop is always distressing, particularly in a show like this, where that disregard echoes the kinds of ideas that foster rape culture in the first place: that women's feelings don't matter, that sexual agency isn't a big deal, that rape is something that just kind of happens and that healthy people simply move on. Rape and abuse have consequences for the victims who carry those traumas with them. While I don't know exactly how the show will depict the aftermath of Jamie raping Cersei, GoT does not have a strong track record of acknowledging or exploring the lingering effects of surviving sexual assault, and given that this instance of rape isn't even in the source material, I'm skeptical about the show's ability or desire to depict Cersei's ongoing reaction to it. The next time the show depicts a nuanced understanding of sexual abuse will be the first time"

[HurrahBrother]

yep another great episode! that final scene was fantastic, but once again, why do the unsullied keep getting their arses handed to them!? they've gone from being unstoppable in the past two series to getting easily killed by normal people with daggers. even if they are slightly outnumbered they should easily be able to handle a few city folk

My take:

I’m only speaking from a larp perspective/experience. And I have done a few battles in Larp. But I have been in a few shield walls. They are both a force multiplier and a survival aid in a battle. They are good for inexperienced or so-so fighters to make it through an event, but when that formation breaks, it's usually in- character deaths a-go-go!

But, Why are the unsullied being useless? I venture this.

They are soldiers, formation fighters. Trained to stand there, take it, and manoeuvre as a block. Battle stuff. They are not street brawlers or skirmishers. No formation and they are as vulnerable as the rest of us. Now remember that they are effectively meat automatons at the beck and call of their commanders. Initiative has been beaten out of them. So they are not as vulnerable as the rest of us in a street brawl, they are more vulnerable.

[zahidf]

Spoilers below

Good article.

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/ask-the-maester-dragons-human-sacrifice-and-more-dragons/

What bothers me about the scene is that it’s based on a character acting in a way that’s counter to how he’s been depicted all series. Stannis has been depicted as one of the greatest generals in the realm. He held the Storm’s End against a one-year siege by eating rats. So if the device that gets Stannis to the place where he’s desperate enough to burn his only daughter and heir alive (Stannis may be rigid, but he isn’t blind to politics. In burning Shireen, he may have won the battle, but he’s lost the Throne. None of the lords of Westeros would back a kinslayer and someone without any heirs) is (1) some snow and (2) a sudden and convenient ineptitude at doing war stuff, that feels off to me. Stannis, “the greatest military commander in Westeros” per Davos, is in enemy territory, on the march toward a belligerent castle, and for some reason (i.e., to make this scene happen) he doesn’t have scouts out or watchmen guarding the camp or have his army — made up largely of professional mercenaries who themselves should know better — in the state of alertness necessary in a war. Also: Ramsay is now a ninja. I don’t buy it.

[bunique]

He did have lookouts - while speaking to Davos he says they must have been in on it and demands they're round up, questioned and hung.

[viberunner]

He isn't considered "one of the best generals" so much as "a tried and tested battle commander". He holed-up during a siege and so, yes, has discipline, but he lost at Blackwater. Didn't die, but didn't win.

It's not just "some snow", it's proper hardcore snowed-in snow, he can't march with his army and his equipment and he can't open supply lines. In fairness to him it's the kind of snow that kills entire armies. And as for "no lord would back him kinslayer/kinless", burning a few of them at the stake would help "motivate" the rest as Vader would say. Also, he had a daughter so was heirless anyway. Either way him being heirless is an incentive for the greater houses... once he goes the throne is up for grabs again.

What I don't get is how 20 men could cause such damage with fire. As someone who builds camping fires I can tell you it's bloody difficult to start and light fires, and letting large amounts of material to ignite and burn is not an easy task. Let alone of the bloody stuff is frozen cold.

Even if the raiders had brought a lot of oil with them that would only start to burn the outside of the (solid oak) wagons and equipment, with the light and alertness they'd have been more than enough time to put them out. And Ramsay's boys have to do all this in darkness. It's not like these wagons are full of gunpowder. A small raid on an army that used cannons might have been a very different thing.

I think JRRM played a bit too much Splinter Cell and forgot the medieval era didn't have night vision goggles and C4.

Edited June 9, 2015 by viberunner

[Matt42]

Lightly based on stuff from the book so don't read if you hate spoilers

I reckon Stannis will die next week when charging against winterfell, and The Red Lady will try and use Jon Snow to fulfill the Prophecy as a replacement for Stannis

[Spindles]

Just a heads up Matt, but there is another thread for book related discussion. The agreement in this thread is discussion only of the shows after they have gone out.

[CanWeRest]

I keep thinking Bron is going to get killed, but he's getting away with it so far. He's one of my faves.

[Dead throne]

bronn is a legend

[zahidf]

He isn't considered "one of the best generals" so much as "a tried and tested battle commander". He holed-up during a siege and so, yes, has discipline, but he lost at Blackwater. Didn't die, but didn't win.

It's not just "some snow", it's proper hardcore snowed-in snow, he can't march with his army and his equipment and he can't open supply lines. In fairness to him it's the kind of snow that kills entire armies. And as for "no lord would back him kinslayer/kinless", burning a few of them at the stake would help "motivate" the rest as Vader would say. Also, he had a daughter so was heirless anyway. Either way him being heirless is an incentive for the greater houses... once he goes the throne is up for grabs again.

Na

What I don't get is how 20 men could cause such damage with fire. As someone who builds camping fires I can tell you it's bloody difficult to start and light fires, and letting large amounts of material to ignite and burn is not an easy task. Let alone of the bloody stuff is frozen cold.

Even if the raiders had brought a lot of oil with them that would only start to burn the outside of the (solid oak) wagons and equipment, with the light and alertness they'd have been more than enough time to put them out. And Ramsay's boys have to do all this in darkness. It's not like these wagons are full of gunpowder. A small raid on an army that used cannons might have been a very different thing.

I think JRRM played a bit too much Splinter Cell and forgot the medieval era didn't have night vision goggles and C4.

He isn't considered "one of the best generals" so much as "a tried and tested battle commander". He holed-up during a siege and so, yes, has discipline, but he lost at Blackwater. Didn't die, but didn't win.

It's not just "some snow", it's proper hardcore snowed-in snow, he can't march with his army and his equipment and he can't open supply lines. In fairness to him it's the kind of snow that kills entire armies. And as for "no lord would back him kinslayer/kinless", burning a few of them at the stake would help "motivate" the rest as Vader would say. Also, he had a daughter so was heirless anyway. Either way him being heirless is an incentive for the greater houses... once he goes the throne is up for grabs again.

What I don't get is how 20 men could cause such damage with fire. As someone who builds camping fires I can tell you it's bloody difficult to start and light fires, and letting large amounts of material to ignite and burn is not an easy task. Let alone of the bloody stuff is frozen cold.

Even if the raiders had brought a lot of oil with them that would only start to burn the outside of the (solid oak) wagons and equipment, with the light and alertness they'd have been more than enough time to put them out. And Ramsay's boys have to do all this in darkness. It's not like these wagons are full of gunpowder. A small raid on an army that used cannons might have been a very different thing.

I think JRRM played a bit too much Splinter Cell and forgot the medieval era didn't have night vision goggles and C4.

I think stannis is shown to be a great military commander in the show. He almost took kings landing, and failed because tyrion was a better strategist on the day.

It was dangerous to go forward, but going back to castle black would have only lost them 6 months. Making it harder to beat the boltons yes, but still a better option than killing your daughter.

Burning his daughter killed his line. As king, she would have produced a son with marriage.

It's one thing burning a few nobodies and peasants. Its another to burn your daughter and lords of houses. Stannis needs the iron bank, who lent him money. And as shown by what happened to the mad king, doing stuff like that gets you killed.anyway, I doubt very much stannis survives the winterfell siege

[gary1979666]

From a story point of view, if Stannis dies, then there's no real present challenge to the Iron throne - I know there's Dany, but she's quite a way from having a real presence there just yet. Might keep him going a bit longer to string it out a bit. Ramsay must surely be coming to his end, so a change of hands of the north must be due?

[Spindles]

I love that no one for a moment considers Balon Greyjoy. Considering he's about to have the wildlings as neighbours in the lands he's taken I'm sure we'll be hearing back from him and his lot before too long. Of course so far the Greyjoys have been all mouth and no trousers, with even tough as nails appearing sister running off with her tail between her legs (more than her brother managed, all puns totally intended).

[gary1979666]

Saw an article yesterday that says HBO have released a casting call for season 6. A few faces from the books that have been missing so far.

http://screenrant.com/game-thrones-season-5-6-casting-characters/ obviously don't read if you're too sensitive to spoilers, though no S5 spoilers there.

Also, Yara / Asha was meant to be appearing in S5, but no sign of her so far.

[LondonTom]

I love that no one for a moment considers Balon Greyjoy.

Well unless he manages to take the North and get their armies to follow him (and considering what Theon did at Winterfell that seems unlikely) he doesn't really have much more than a few slightly better than pirate boats.

[5co77ie]

Game Of Thrones is coming to Port Eliot Festival this summer

[5co77ie]

...no change there then.

[GodlikeYeezus]

I couldn't get into series 1 at all but saw amazing reviews of the episode 8 series 5 so decided to watch it. Now i feel hooked 5 series too late and all the characters confuse me I'm re watching from series 2.

[viberunner]

It was dangerous to go forward, but going back to castle black would have only lost them 6 months. Making it harder to beat the boltons yes, but still a better option than killing your daughter.

Burning his daughter killed his line. As king, she would have produced a son with marriage.

Where did you get six months from? It was already said going back to Castle Black would have meant wintering there. Game of Thrones starts at a summer that has already lasted nine years, and the rule-of-thumb is a long summer means a long winter. So even a "normal" winter would be many years. More than that, walker activity indicates a very long winter. The old tale is of a WW winter that lasted a generation, so at least twenty years.

That's too much time, Castle Black doesn't have the resources to feed an army for very long let alone years, and the mercenaries certainly aren't going to wait around in the snow without pay.

She might have produced a daughter you know. Let alone if the gray scale or the cure might have made her infertile. But that's beside the point, the point is he sincerely believes the only way he will get to be king is if she is sacrificed.

And he'd rather be a king than a daddy.

[viberunner]

I couldn't get into series 1 at all but saw amazing reviews of the episode 8 series 5 so decided to watch it. Now i feel hooked 5 series too late and all the characters confuse me I'm re watching from series 2.

Watch from Season 1. Trust me on this. Lots of stuff happens that feeds into later seasons, plus shock stuff too towards the end. It's a slow go but it's the place-setting season.

It'll make all the later seasons that much better.

Edited June 10, 2015 by viberunner

[HurrahBrother]

from the current weather forecasts, I think winter is coming to Glastonbury....

Snow drifts and a shower of sprats? Either could be possible as we have had everything else at that festival.

[Dead throne]

someone will die

Edited June 14, 2015 by Dead throne

[viberunner]

Well, Episode ten...

 

The Stannis thing was fucking epic.

 

The Sansa thing was alright.

 

The Arya thing was fucking epic.

 

The Daneris thing was alright.

 

The Jamie/daughter thing was brilliant. [i guessed it from the moment it happened, I guess most people did.]

 

The Cersi thing was fucking epic. [The Mountain is going to fucking own Season 6]

 

The Castle Black thing was fucking epic. [i didn't see that one coming.]