Taking kids out of school without being fined?

[jeffie]

I think we also need to think about the age of the child here. There should be no issue at all with a 6 year old missing some school, but I would understand (and wouldn't remove my kids) if it were around GCSE time.

[Yesiamaduck]

Have your kid act. Most children should watch wrestling so they should know the jest.

Have him act really excited the day before Glastonbury and have him jump on top of a desk going

'WOOOO I'm going to GLASTONBURY BABY' whist doing this dance

Then have him flair flop onto the floor, don't worry you can teach him how to take a 'bump so it doesn't hurt him.

Then have him do a stretcher job

Then fake a doctors note saying he's injured and wont be back in action for a week. Once again Wrestling saves the day!

Edited May 27, 2014 by Yesiamaduck

[DeanoL]

or you could ask the teacher what you missed (or might be missing) and it would probably take no more than a few hours to make for what's been missed over 5 days. No extra work for the teachers at all.

[Guest]

Yep, and if you're willing to do that (and aren't going to demand the teacher's time to go through it with you, and just make do with their lesson notes) then that's fine like I said. Just you don't then get to complain if your kid does badly in an exam.

Edited May 27, 2014 by tonyblair

[DeanoL]

a school is absolved of any responsibility to a child if they take a few days out of school?

[rmcoboy]

We're taking our two again this year. Wrote the letter, accepted the 'refusal' and will pay the fine if it happens. No point whining about the system or blaming Gove. Just suck it up and have a good time.

Incidently I wonder whether the number of kids at Glasto this year might be reduced? Could be a subtly different vibe as it seems to me that Glasto has got more and more child friendly since I first went in 2004.

[Guest]

That seems reasonable to me. The service is there if you want to take advantage of it. You have the absolute right to do whatever the hell you want with your kids, but if you don't follow the rules laid down by the service, you can't expect to still get the end result. If you want more flexible education with guarantees, you can home school or go private.

Or, like I've said a few times, we establish a baseline of say, allowing you to take kids out of school for 5 days, and we all take the extra % on income tax to pay teacher salaries for the increase hours that would require.

There's three things here:

1) letting kids have authorized absences in term time (and we have to do that for everyone, not just you because you think Glastonbury is 'worthwhile')

2) not increasing teacher wages or hiring extra teachers by raising taxes

3) continuing to hold teachers and schools to the same education standards we currently do.

You can have any two of those, but doing all three is impossible.

Edited May 27, 2014 by tonyblair

[RainbowChild]

I have three boys aged 6, 5 and 3 and i will be taking them all (it will be their 5th, 4th and 3rd Glastonbury this year!). I too have opted for the honest approach - probably, due to the fact that my middle one ran straight into class on the Monday morning after ticket sales in October and announced to the class that he was going to Glastonbury again!

The teachers are all aware and are very supportive of us taking the boys to Glastonbury, and we have had a number of conversations about the best approach to take. It hasn't helped that we got a new Head Teacher this year so the staff didn't know how she was going to respond to holiday requests. I was advised by one of the teachers that if it was looking like we could be fined then she would tell us and would recommend that the boys be 'ill' she said that they would know where they really were and he wouldn't have to lie but the Head wouldn't find out. But, like others on here I don't really think it sets a good example to lie about it and why should we?

So, I wrote a letter that explained why we think they should be given permission. It was quite a long letter that explained some of the things that the boys enjoy about Glastonbury; the charities they now support (and understand), the story telling, poetry, workshops and craft sessions that they were involved in last year. I explained that we continued their education last year by following up on the topics that they were working on at the time - they were easy enough to talk about as the topics were 'people who help' and 'the emergency services'.

Last week I received a telephone call from the school telling me that the holidays hadn't been authorised (for my oldest one as, apparently, the rules don't apply for those in reception class). The letter had been very convincing and they wished that they could authorise it but their hands are tied as all requests are being refused. they couldn't have been more apologetic about it but they said that they won't be referring for a fine because their attendance is so high. They said chances are, unless the rules change, we would be fined next year but we'll deal with that if we are lucky enough to get tickets!

To be honest, we would take the boys regardless of their decision and if we did get fined then so be it but its such a ridiculous policy. I wonder what the impact it is going to have on the kidzfield this year? I know many other 'Glastonbury families' will take the same view as us and go regardless, but I wonder if many others are put off brining the kids in June?

[RainbowChild]

Incidently I wonder whether the number of kids at Glasto this year might be reduced? Could be a subtly different vibe as it seems to me that Glasto has got more and more child friendly since I first went in 2004.

[rmcoboy]

Me too! Kids are almost growing out of Kidz Field now (they are 9 and 10) but just love the whole week of music, stuff to see and do and dancing with a variety of nutters. It would be a great shame if they and other kids missed out on this unique opportunity to HAVE A GOOD TIME!

[neilloggie]

I'm doing a lot of overtime the next 4 weeks, so i have asked my boss to write me a letter stating that i can't take any holidays in the 6 weeks school holiday, so part of my problem is solved, providing they accept the letter.

Well it took some of my kid's teachers the best part of ten years to teach not very much at all. There was more time spent/wasted on the supply teachers trying to work out what to teach the kids than there was on kids trying to catch up on a few days lost ground.

[Greenelk]

We're taking our two again this year. Wrote the letter, accepted the 'refusal' and will pay the fine if it happens. No point whining about the system or blaming Gove. Just suck it up and have a good time.

Incidently I wonder whether the number of kids at Glasto this year might be reduced? Could be a subtly different vibe as it seems to me that Glasto has got more and more child friendly since I first went in 2004.

[DeanoL]

what comeback for the parents is there when teachers take time out from school and are replaced by out of touch supply teachers?

It's a school ffs. It's there for us. It's not a prison sentence. If a parent wants to take their kids out for a few days accepting the (negligible) consequences, why should they be punished? What kind of fucked up society have we allowed to happen?

(ooops, I meant to edit my previous post, but I seem to have doubled it up...)

[mrpman]

Teachers have the same restrictions as the kids. If they bunk off, they get a lot worse than a fine- loss of job most likely.

And yes, I've said time and time again that parents should be allowed to take the kids out. The fine thing is idiotic. But they shouldn't expect teachers to make the extra effort to cater for those kids missing out. 15 minutes to go through the work they'll miss with you isn't much. Doing that with all 200 kids they teach is 50 hours of work. You take them out, the responsibility is on you to catch them up with no help. Or accept that they might fall behind, and if they do, you can't blame the school.

It's about responsibility. You think you have the right to decide what is best for your kid and you totally do. But in doing so you assume full responsibility for that- you break the 'contract' with the school it's not their responsibility any more. You took it on, because you know best.

Or we could just have Glastonbury a month later when it's sunnier and in the school holidays.

[Ruwise]

Teachers have the same restrictions as the kids. If they bunk off, they get a lot worse than a fine- loss of job most likely.

And yes, I've said time and time again that parents should be allowed to take the kids out. The fine thing is idiotic. But they shouldn't expect teachers to make the extra effort to cater for those kids missing out. 15 minutes to go through the work they'll miss with you isn't much. Doing that with all 200 kids they teach is 50 hours of work. You take them out, the responsibility is on you to catch them up with no help. Or accept that they might fall behind, and if they do, you can't blame the school.

It's about responsibility. You think you have the right to decide what is best for your kid and you totally do. But in doing so you assume full responsibility for that- you break the 'contract' with the school it's not their responsibility any more. You took it on, because you know best.

Or we could just have Glastonbury a month later when it's sunnier and in the school holidays.

[stardustjunkie]

I'm talking as someone who doesn't have children, so my perspective probably isn't great but I've been thinking as I read this out of curiosity.

I was a child that had my fair share of illnesses, particularly ear infections. I seem to remember the school were supportive of this and understood the problems I had with my ears as a child. I was also unlucky enough to get ill at every half term/school holiday going, so I sometimes missed a day or two at the start of or end of a half term/school holiday for a genuine reason. Once I was at uni, in my first year I had 3-4 months off due to illness as well, but again, they were understanding.

I finish university in 3 weeks with a predicted 2:1 grade. I finished college with a triple merit, and I left school with 11 GCSE's all A*-C grades. No they're not straight A's but I probably had more time off than a child that goes to Glastonbury and yet I've managed to do reasonably well throughout education on numerous levels and through a variety of subjects.

The point I'm trying to make is that every request should be looked at on an individual basis. If the child has a lot of absence then it obviously isn't going to be accepted, but if they are a child that is doing well/not struggling, and they have a good attendance, why shouldn't they have 3-4 days off once a year? Children have every right to enjoy life, particularly at such a young age where they don't have responsibility or worry (hopefully). I wish I was lucky enough as a child to go to Glastonbury, but I can understand that anyone who hasn't been (teachers for example) may not understand the opportunities and learning experiences available to children and most likely see it as what the BBC show on TV, fields full of people watching bands. We know that it's so much more than that though.

[DeanoL]

It is pathetic that these decisions have to be so black and white. Individual cases should be looked at and Glastonbury should be seen as an educational experience.

[hurdy]

The fines are issued under the anti social behavior act which was brought in to combat persistent truancy and the old adage of kids standing on street corners. Using it to fine parents who occasionally take their kids out of school out of choice is an abuse of process in my opinion.

I doubt the Court would agree however, but if I ever have to I'll be going there to argue it.

[Ruwise]

And again, which teacher should be taking time out of actually teaching kids to consider every holiday application in detail, working out if it's true or just parents just bullshitting. And if they decide that Glastonbury is 'educational', because you take your kids round the nice bits, how do they balance that with the family that just want to camp their kids at the pyramid all day?

One thing I'm curious about, how much holiday are people asking for? Are you doing the full four days (wed-fri, mon) I wonder if you'd have more luck with just doing thu/fir, as that's the same sort of timescale you'd get for a family wedding or such?

[Guest]

Teachers have the same restrictions as the kids. If they bunk off, they get a lot worse than a fine- loss of job most likely.

[Guest]

And again, which teacher should be taking time out of actually teaching kids to consider every holiday application in detail, working out if it's true or just parents just bullshitting. And if they decide that Glastonbury is 'educational', because you take your kids round the nice bits, how do they balance that with the family that just want to camp their kids at the pyramid all day?

One thing I'm curious about, how much holiday are people asking for? Are you doing the full four days (wed-fri, mon) I wonder if you'd have more luck with just doing thu/fir, as that's the same sort of timescale you'd get for a family wedding or such?

[DeanoL]

The teachers are getting paid to do a job, to educate our kids. They should have at least the same restrictions as the kids. And teachers don't bunk off? You're having a larf.

no-one is blaming the school (apart from fining parents). I think everyone who has said they want to take their kids out of school would accept total responsibility. But just as a school should be able to accomodate kids who are sometimes off sick for long periods, a few days here or there shouldn't make much difference. The systems isn't exactly streamlined to the point where they're going to miss out on the concept of algebra (for example) in that time.

The responsibilty is completely one-way. Contract my arse. The kids have to go to school. It's not like there any negotiating that goes on.

[Keithy]

Having a friend who is a teacher, the idea that the pupil won't "miss much" if they miss a few days is a gross insult. Good teachers organised lesson plans weeks in advance and it impacts the rest of the class when they have to spend extra time with a pupil to catch up. It can be as simple as missing a chapter, a particular experiment or basics of an equation.

The fining is a classic example unfortunately of a minority affecting the majority. A 'good' parent would speak to the teacher and get the work being missed so they could do it at home with the child so the pupil doesn't missed out. A 'bad' parent doesn't give a damn if a child misses out on their education. The fining was to try and bring the 'bad' parents in line by my making them have a consequence for their child not attending.

However I come back to my original point which several people have alluded to, namely the idea that a pupil can miss a couple of days and it have no long term impact. You should try being a teacher and your view will change overnight.

[Guest]

Having a friend who is a teacher, the idea that the pupil won't "miss much" if they miss a few days is a gross insult. Good teachers organised lesson plans weeks in advance and it impacts the rest of the class when they have to spend extra time with a pupil to catch up. It can be as simple as missing a chapter, a particular experiment or basics of an equation.

The fining is a classic example unfortunately of a minority affecting the majority. A 'good' parent would speak to the teacher and get the work being missed so they could do it at home with the child so the pupil doesn't missed out. A 'bad' parent doesn't give a damn if a child misses out on their education. The fining was to try and bring the 'bad' parents in line by my making them have a consequence for their child not attending.

However I come back to my original point which several people have alluded to, namely the idea that a pupil can miss a couple of days and it have no long term impact. You should try being a teacher and your view will change overnight.

[Guest]

Teachers bunk off, kids bunk off. Worst kids get is a fine for the parents. Teachers risk their entire career. And kids don't have to go to state school, you can home school them or send them private.

And no, for some kids taking a few days off here and there will make little difference. For others that are struggling, it'll be a big deal. But what do you propose we do? "Sorry Mrs Hoburn, we've see your application for a week off but your kid is a bit too dim I'm afraid." Or do we start giving our kids even more exams, so we can decide how much discretionary holiday they'll be allowed? I'm intrigued as to what the solution should be, as people suggesting 'look at each case individually, considering how the kid is performing, his absence history and the education value of the proposed holiday would appear to be the prevailing idea, yet no-one seems to know how we pay teachers for the time needed to do that assessment.

Bureaucracy and generalisation is a necessary efficiency when class sizes are going up. There just isn't the resources for doing that any more. Good luck even getting a meeting with the teacher these days, they're too busy going home to spend the entire evening lesson planning and marking.

And we have lots of poor schools. Doesn't solve this problem for those that are forced to send their kids to them because of the postcode lottery though.

For the record, I'm all in favour of putting taxes up and investing heavily in schools and teachers (and hospitals and nurses too). But knowing how hard teachers work (I'm not one myself, would rather die), this "oh but it only takes half an hour to look at Timmy's record and have a chat with us and check out our holiday application and decide it's fine and catch Timmy up later" is the fucking death knell. Because you do that for one kid, you gotta do it for the other 49 too. And that quick half an hour is now 25 hours, and then another 25 dealing with angry Mrs Timmy who wants to know why his mates were approved to go to Glastonbury but Timmy wasn't, and Mr Devoe who is mad that you think a trip to Ibiza isn't educational and so on...

Everything you think is so easy is so much less easy when you realise every teacher has to do it 50 times, and every headteacher has to do it 1000 times