Metallica....in the Mosh, will there be a mosh, not in the mosh?

[DeanoL]

Ravers throw shapes. Flamenco lovers waltz. Metallers mosh. So for the person who said "they video tape it", essentially, you'll be punching a dancer in the face because he (or she) danced near you, and security - well versed in crowd control; some familiar with Metal gigs - will put you at fault.

Nope, that's not what I said. I said if a mosher runs headfirst into your elbow, that is their fault. Prosecution would never get through. Likewise if a mosher injures you, even by accident, there's a good chance you can sue for compensation.

At the end of the day, it's all part of the Metal scene and most outside of it would never understand it or like to get involved in it, and even those who do understand sometimes don't want to get involved in it. That is something metallers respect. Your safety as an observer is paramount to their safety as somebody getting involved, so again, if you have no intention of getting involved in one, just move away from it rather than approach it with a bloody mind because you'll likely get hurt. What's worse than getting hurt is you'll find yourself becoming annoyed - and despite the inherent violence involved in your typical mosh pit, nobody in them wants a fight with anybody. They'll respect the fact you don't want to be there; they may even ask you to move back for your own safety. Respect that and you won't get hurt. Don't move, stay out of bloody mindedness and you'll get hurt because people in a mosh pit will assume you want to join in.

Okay, you seem reasonable so answer me one thing. There are going to be more people at Glastonbury that aren't part of the Metal scene that those that are (and I'll give you, at a Metallica gig, this would be different, and the opposite would apply). Why is it on the people that don't want to be involved to move away and further back? Why don't you move further back and out of the way of them? Why should they lose their spot because you want to mosh? Why are you more important than they are?

That's all I'm asking here. Why does your right to mosh trump my right to enjoy the band in comfort and safety? I don't deny we both have the right to enjoy the gig how we want to, but why do you feel you're entitled to the best spot in front of the stage to enjoy it your way? Why do we have to move and not you?

Genuinely, not trolling, I'd love an answer to that question as it's the core issue here. Why are you more important?

[Dave The Hedgehog]

they're a minority who spoil it

You do get them, yes. On the other hand, those people at Metal gigs are usually 'controlled' by the people who do it responsibily and cautiously. The sort of people you mention are the ones I was referring to in the Metallica 2014 thread some time back - and I have to say I expect a lot of them at Glastonbury purely because it isn't a Metal festival and Metal rules don't apply, so it's unfortunate that we don't have the people there to control it, which is another reason why people should exercise extreme caution if a pit develops.

[Dave The Hedgehog]

Why is it on the people that don't want to be involved to move away and further back? Why don't you move further back and out of the way of them? Why should they lose their spot because you want to mosh? Why are you more important than they are? Why does your right to mosh trump my right to enjoy the band in comfort and safety? I don't deny we both have the right to enjoy the gig how we want to, but why do you feel you're entitled to the best spot in front of the stage to enjoy it your way? Why do we have to move and not you? Why are you more important?

The Metal crowd aren't nor will they be under any illusion that they have more importance or deserve more place to see 'their' band than you. Also, a mosh pit can develop anywhere, at any time. It's not always going to be at the front. In fact, it's less likely to be at the front because a barrier will be there to stop them from doing it properly.

If you want to be safe, just take a step back and let the people in it burn off their energy. Then when the mosh pit dies down, you can go back to whatever spot you're most comfortable in. It's not a matter of importance or who feels they have the most right; it's a question of awareness and safety.

[DeanoL]

it's a question of awareness and safety.

Well in that case, it comes back to people threatening the moshers with violence. I know this sounds nasty and crass, but if there were enough of them, presumably you wouldn't mosh, because you might get hurt? You'd decide on balance that it wasn't safe right?

I know that sounds fucking horrendous to you, but you need to understand that's exactly how the rest of us feel when the moshers tell us they'll do they want to do and if we want to be safe we need to back off. Do you see? It's two halves of the same thing.

And what is your response to those threats? That any such people will be 'dealt with' by the rest of the pit? So when someone is saying they'll make the situation around you so uncomfortable you can't enjoy the band in the way you want, you threaten them with violence.

In exactly the same way they're doing to you. Look past your belief that the right to mosh is inalienable and you'll see how you're exactly the same.

Thats why ill be down the front with the actual fans of the band people who know the score and can look out for one another and if your talking moshpits thats going to be the safest place to be for those in the pit and those around the pit.

Any chance your organised group could just stay further back then, and let other people down the front who want to actually watch the band?

Edited June 2, 2014 by DeanoL

[The Nal]

Any chance your organised group could just stay further back then, and let other people down the front who want to actually watch the band?

Yes that would be the right thing to do considering most people don't want to be involved in it.

[Dave The Hedgehog]

Here's the predicament:

"I want to see Metallica"

- Nice one. See you there.

"Is it likely to get a bit rowdy?"

- It's a Metal gig; you should expect it.

"Will there be mosh...ing?"

- Quite possibly, but if you don't want to get involved, just take a step back from the pit when it forms.

"But I don't want to move!"

- If you don't want to get hurt, you'll have to.

"But I don't want to!!!"

- Ok, fair enough, but you've been warned.

"If anybody moshes into me, I'll smash them in the face"

- And that would be assault.

"Then what do you call it when somebody barges into me then!?"

- An accident with no intentional harm.

"But what right does anybody have to mosh near me and hurt me or my friends when I just want to sit back and enjoy the gig?"

- They don't, but if you get hurt because of a mosh pit, that's nobody's fault but your own for not moving away from it when you should have.

"But I don't want to move!!!!"

- There's a difference between you getting hurt and people wanting to hurt you, and if you can do all you can to avoid it, the likelihood is you and your friends won't get hurt.

"How can I avoid getting hurt then?"

- By steering clear of danger and taking a few steps back.

"BUT I DON'T WANT TO MOVE!!!!!"

Ok then...

[The Nal]

Here's the predicament:

So basically, a tiny amount of people are inconsiderate dickheads and are going to force others to move so they can enjoy themselves by jumping around in a cringing and stereotypical way.

They're going to annoy others and willingly humiliate themselves. Thats been the case all along.

Still don't understand why they can't do that down the back where they won't annoy anyone. Absolutely no issue with that.

Edited June 2, 2014 by The Nal

[frostypaw]

Ah the joys of a family friendly festival - as long as you stay away from the people who'll hurt you.

Out of interest our group like to enjoy our music by holding our arms out with fists clenched and spinning around with little control over where we're going

That's ok right? it's people's own fault if I hit them?

If not what's the difference between that and moshing - it's how we enjoy our music, and apparently we have a right to do that however we want and everyone else should get out of the way?

[acidstorm523]

I don't understand why letting off steam and enjoying your music means people around are in danger of getting hurt. Pure selfishness.

I've seen it at Prodigy, Pendulum, Chase and Status and funnily Kasabian gigs, where mosh pits are also great cover for steamers nicking phones and wallets as it's impossible to distinguish their general pushing and shoving. It's crap and annoying. Last time my husband had his phone nicked, and there was a queue of about 30 people after the gig making police reports.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

This thread needs a mercy killing.

[alexwetherell]

I think we should just all stand there and hold each other's dicks

[Swine_Glasto2014]

Here's the predicament:

"I want to see Metallica"

- Nice one. See you there.

"Is it likely to get a bit rowdy?"

- It's a Metal gig; you should expect it.

"Will there be mosh...ing?"

- Quite possibly, but if you don't want to get involved, just take a step back from the pit when it forms.

"But I don't want to move!"

- If you don't want to get hurt, you'll have to.

"But I don't want to!!!"

- Ok, fair enough, but you've been warned.

"If anybody moshes into me, I'll smash them in the face"

- And that would be assault.

"Then what do you call it when somebody barges into me then!?"

- An accident with no intentional harm.

"But what right does anybody have to mosh near me and hurt me or my friends when I just want to sit back and enjoy the gig?"

- They don't, but if you get hurt because of a mosh pit, that's nobody's fault but your own for not moving away from it when you should have.

"But I don't want to move!!!!"

- There's a difference between you getting hurt and people wanting to hurt you, and if you can do all you can to avoid it, the likelihood is you and your friends won't get hurt.

"How can I avoid getting hurt then?"

- By steering clear of danger and taking a few steps back.

"BUT I DON'T WANT TO MOVE!!!!!"

Ok then...

Awesome

[frostypaw]

I think we should just all stand there and hold each other's dicks

I dunno whether to reply:

"Deal!"

or

"What's the point? they're all tiny frustrated metallers?"

But I can't decide. You choose

[Dave The Hedgehog]

Absolutely no issue with that.

Oh well, The Who can't play every year.

[Wooderson]

Answer him moshers. If you're so considerate why not have your mosh down the back where there's loadsa room?

It's because by definition the mosh mob -need- the unwilling around them. It only works when the place is packed with the unfortunate few unable to avoid.

[Wooderson]

That's why you're the c**ts here.

[rexclark]

I think we should just all stand there and hold each other's dicks

[Swine_Glasto2014]

Don't think anyone is a c**t for moshing

[Gnomicide]

What the hell, it's been a few weeks....

"Huh...huh, huh.... I'm gonna mosh my ass off!"

[jeffie]

Don't think anyone is a c**t for moshing

That's not for you to say.

[jeffie]

Answer him moshers. If you're so considerate why not have your mosh down the back where there's loadsa room?

It's because by definition the mosh mob -need- the unwilling around them. It only works when the place is packed with the unfortunate few unable to avoid.

Any reply?

[jeffie]

Ah the joys of a family friendly festival - as long as you stay away from the people who'll hurt you.

Out of interest our group like to enjoy our music by holding our arms out with fists clenched and spinning around with little control over where we're going

That's ok right? it's people's own fault if I hit them?

If not what's the difference between that and moshing - it's how we enjoy our music, and apparently we have a right to do that however we want and everyone else should get out of the way?

Or we can practice kickboxing through the mosh pit?

[jeffie]

Here's the predicament:

"I want to see Metallica"

- Nice one. See you there.

"Is it likely to get a bit rowdy?"

- It's a Metal gig; you should expect it.

"Will there be mosh...ing?"

- Quite possibly, but if you don't want to get involved, just take a step back from the pit when it forms.

"But I don't want to move!"

- If you don't want to get hurt, you'll have to.

"But I don't want to!!!"

- Ok, fair enough, but you've been warned.

"If anybody moshes into me, I'll smash them in the face"

- And that would be assault.

"Then what do you call it when somebody barges into me then!?"

- An accident with no intentional harm.

"But what right does anybody have to mosh near me and hurt me or my friends when I just want to sit back and enjoy the gig?"

- They don't, but if you get hurt because of a mosh pit, that's nobody's fault but your own for not moving away from it when you should have.

"But I don't want to move!!!!"

- There's a difference between you getting hurt and people wanting to hurt you, and if you can do all you can to avoid it, the likelihood is you and your friends won't get hurt.

"How can I avoid getting hurt then?"

- By steering clear of danger and taking a few steps back.

"BUT I DON'T WANT TO MOVE!!!!!"

Ok then...

If anyone moshes into me, I will push them back just as hard or maybe downwards..... And? Edited June 2, 2014 by jeffie

[Wooderson]

Jeffie and Dean. Quality.

[DeanoL]

"If anybody moshes into me, I'll smash them in the face"

- And that would be assault.

"Then what do you call it when somebody barges into me then!?"

- An accident with no intentional harm.

That'd be lovely for you if it was true. But it's not. In the UK they would both be Common Assault.

Mens rea is term used in law to state whether someone has a 'guilty mind' and so can be prosecuted. Guess what the mens rea for Common Assault is in England? You're half right, intent is one option. Recklessness is the other.

If it makes you fee better I believe you'd be nearly correct in Scotland, where it would be Culpable and reckless conduct instead, and prosecuted under a different law.

But don't let my facts get in the way of your fun scenario eh?

Edited June 2, 2014 by DeanoL