Football 2014/15

[Wooderson]

Markovic then?

When people are quoting Avram Grant to qualify a prospect that makes me v worried.

Haha

[Benj]

You know that means "twice as many mugs than other teams" and not "twice as many fans as other teams", don't you?

Or twice as much cachet perhaps, depending on which side of the bitter fence you're on

They'll make their money by association not shirt sales

And to think there were some tits laughing about Nike 'ending their association' with them. Seems pretty clear why now!

Its truly astounding really, 75 million quid a year, just to stick your logo on a shirt.

The rest of us (as in those outside the top 4 elite) have zero chance, the gaps just get bigger and bigger

Edited July 14, 2014 by Benj

[Benj]

Markovic then?

Never heard of him, should we be worried?

[eFestivals]

Or twice as much cachet perhaps, depending on which side of the bitter fence you're on

They'll make their money by association not shirt sales

And to think there were some tits laughing about Nike 'ending their association' with them. Seems pretty clear now.

Its truly astounding really, 75 million quid a year, just to stick your logo on a shirt.

I wasn't being bitter, I was actually homing in on this bit (bolded), about what it actually means about the human race.

That we're utter saps for a few flashing lights that's called "marketing".

Edited July 14, 2014 by eFestivals

[Wooderson]

It's an incredible coup from Utd and a huge vote of confidence in them from Adidas. Makes a mockery of clubs scratching around for points trying to make CL qualification.

[eFestivals]

It's an incredible coup from Utd and a huge vote of confidence in them from Adidas. Makes a mockery of clubs scratching around for points trying to make CL qualification.

dunno, is footie a marketing/financial competition, or merely as sporting one?

[Wooderson]

dunno, is footie a marketing/financial competition, or merely as sporting one?

English clubs (particularly Utd) do the financial stuff really well. Could be argued that this comes at the expense of focus on the actual game, yes. All you hear is how important the CL is for a clubs prospects. This deal makes that tenet look naive at best.

[eFestivals]

English clubs (particularly Utd) do the financial stuff really well. Could be argued that this comes at the expense of focus on the actual game, yes. All you hear is how important the CL is for a clubs prospects. This deal makes that tenet look naive at best.

Clubs rise and clubs fall. Gaining a CL place is required before climbing to the top, if that's ever going to happen.

But i know what you're getting at, some clubs have an inherent advantage just by the fact of where they've got to today, that's far harder for any upstart to bite into.

This is why I find the FFP rules so offensive, because it basically sets in stone that the big clubs now will be the big clubs forever.

[Benj]

English clubs (particularly Utd) do the financial stuff really well. Could be argued that this comes at the expense of focus on the actual game, yes. All you hear is how important the CL is for a clubs prospects. This deal makes that tenet look naive at best.

It all compounds on each other, even getting a massive deal like this will help them get more, you need one to get the other and once the Juggernaut gets moving its hard to stop and even harder to join the convoy.

[Benj]

Clubs rise and clubs fall. Gaining a CL place is required before climbing to the top, if that's ever going to happen.

But i know what you're getting at, some clubs have an inherent advantage just by the fact of where they've got to today, that's far harder for any upstart to bite into.

This is why I find the FFP rules so offensive, because it basically sets in stone that the big clubs now will be the big clubs forever.

They used to, its a different ball game these days, they're all properly run like the mega corporations they are. Arsenal, Utd and LFC are arguably Chelsea are machines now, success may come and go but they will not fall. There may be the odd party crasher, on the odd occasion but I think over time things will simply become more and more set in stone

Especially as, as you say, they now have FFP to close the door and ensure no other clubs can get a sniff.

[Wooderson]

It all compounds on each other, even getting a massive deal like this will help them get more, you need one to get the other and once the Juggernaut gets moving its hard to stop and even harder to join the convoy.

Yes. Fully agree with yourself and Neil. Have to say I support this kind of income vs City or Chelsea or PSG though. Adidas clearly view the deal as worthwhile - who can blame Utd?

To start to restrict how much the income from these deals can be spent on playing personnel is possible... If FIFA wanted to change anything a draft system or wage cap would also be a good start.

[thetime]

To start to restrict how much the income from these deals can be spent on playing personnel is possible... If FIFA wanted to change anything a draft system or wage cap would also be a good start.

Problem with a wage cap is owners will just milk up more money.

[Wooderson]

Problem with a wage cap is owners will just milk up more money.

Yes - but Benj's point has merit. FFP basically enshrines the pre-eminence of the current crop of top clubs. This is unhealthy irrespective of impact a wage cap would have on owner's income. From a purely financial level the deal with Adidas hugely belittles any achievement other clubs would have in qualifying for the CL at their expense.

[Benj]

Yes. Fully agree with yourself and Neil. Have to say I support this kind of income vs City or Chelsea or PSG though. Adidas clearly view the deal as worthwhile - who can blame Utd?

To start to restrict how much the income from these deals can be spent on playing personnel is possible... If FIFA wanted to change anything a draft system or wage cap would also be a good start.

Its certainly not unfair in itself and you certainly can't blame the clubs.

Everyone wondered how the Glaziers would pay off their loans, with Neil and the likes endlessly predicting financial doom for the club, this deal alone pretty much covers their initial outlay!

They were obviously huge visionaries after all!

I think a tighter limit on squad size would be the best bet in making things fairer, currently it makes sense for the big teams to hoover up all the quality and leave it getting splinters on the bench, this also pushes prices up further, further increasing their advantage

With more talent on the market, costs would be lower and lesser teams would have a wider talent pool to select from

[eFestivals]

Yes. Fully agree with yourself and Neil. Have to say I support this kind of income vs City or Chelsea or PSG though. Adidas clearly view the deal as worthwhile - who can blame Utd?

I don't 'blame' Utd from one angle, tho just like the creation of the Prem was about the pursuit of greedy interests at the expense of football as a whole, this pans out as being that too (tho would be the same for any club, not just Utd).

In theory I support the idea of internally-generated funds firstly, but it works as bollocks in practice - as this deal shows, it merely confirmed the already-entrenched dominance of clubs like Utd.

What we need to do is to make those chucking the money at the likes of city, Chelsea and others to *really* be chucking their money at it, and not running the whole thing as a tax fiddle based around "loans" that will never be paid back.

To start to restrict how much the income from these deals can be spent on playing personnel is possible... If FIFA wanted to change anything a draft system or wage cap would also be a good start.

That's pointless for increasing competition, unless the 'surplus' to what gets spent on players gets taken from the club for the benefit of other teams.

[Wooderson]

Admittedly I can't think how a limit would apply. But for clubs in the "2nd tier" like LFC, Everton, Spurs, Newcastle seeing Utd flex such incredible commercial might is depressing. You simply cannot compete against them in this arena.

[Wooderson]

Superb point from Benj about the much-maligned Glazers aswell.

[eFestivals]

You simply cannot compete against them in this arena.

the one saving grace is that other clubs can compete against the spending of the money - cos all clubs only get luck or not with their purchases. More money doesn't make you make a better decision.

[thetime]

Admittedly I can't think how a limit would apply. But for clubs in the "2nd tier" like LFC, Everton, Spurs, Newcastle seeing Utd flex such incredible commercial might is depressing. You simply cannot compete against them in this arena.

Liverpool in the 2nd tier?

[eFestivals]

They were obviously huge visionaries after all!

They're no more visionary than anyone taking out a mortgage.

[eFestivals]

Liverpool in the 2nd tier?

I'd say they are - for the mo, at least.

However, they're also the only club who can realistically do much the same as Utd, because their profile outstrips their success.

(If that wasn't the case with Utd, Chelsea and City would now be much the same, and not instead a long way short).

Interestingly, LFC under Fenway's ownership seem to be more successful than Utd at penetrating the USA's population, so it could be quite interesting a few years on from here.

[Benj]

They're no more visionary than anyone taking out a mortgage.

Wish I could put up one of those signs advertising the firm doing windows for the full value of my mortgage!

[Wooderson]

Liverpool in the 2nd tier?

Most assuredly chief.

[Benj]

Liverpool in the 2nd tier?

They're certainly not at that level (I imagine its only Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich who are) but clearly well above the likes of Spurs, Everton, Newcastle etc and I'd say still Arsenal, Chelsea etc...

[thetime]

I would say if we're talking revenue and worldwide appeal Liverpool are certainly tier 1.