Football 2014/15

[Gucci Piggy]

So is our first choice CM partnership now Henderson and Wilshere? In that case Wilshere needs to finally step it up (not that he doesn't need to do that anyway). Are there no defensive midfielders whatsoever who we can play, other than Gareth Barry?

Hopefully Oxlade-Chamberlain works out as a CM long-term.

[LondonTom]

I have never understood why English fans are so bothered about the captain. They don't do anything and its a glorified pr role. Most countries just give it to the best or most experienced paper

Pitch leader? Morale booster when its all going to pot? Calming the other players down after a dodgey decision? and even from a PR role, its someone to galvanise the fans a little bit.

I don't think England really have a player who can do all that atm or anyone who deserves it on merit/experience

thing is, despite how dreadfully Gerrard has played for England at times, give it a few years and people will probably be clamouring for him back. It's not like the newbies are going to be doing any better.

True that and you could see him having a good season or two with Liverpool to!

So is our first choice CM partnership now Henderson and Wilshere? In that case Wilshere needs to finally step it up (not that he doesn't need to do that anyway). Are there no defensive midfielders whatsoever who we can play, other than Gareth Barry?

Hopefully Oxlade-Chamberlain works out as a CM long-term.

If you look outside of the England fold, Mark Noble could do it

Edited July 21, 2014 by LondonTom

[TheGayTent]

If you look outside of the England fold, Mark Noble could do it

No he couldn't. Dreadful player is Noble.

[thetime]

Pitch leader? Morale booster when its all going to pot? Calming the other players down after a dodgey decision? and even from a PR role, its someone to galvanise the fans a little bit.

I would of thought the best teams have a team of leaders and not just the captain.

Never saw Roy Keane calming people down after a dodgy descision, more like inflame the situation.

Right time for Gerrard to go to be fair.

Edited July 21, 2014 by thetime

[mrtourette]

I think Gerrard has performed well for England over the years. Certainly not world class but nobody really has been for England. I would certainly say he's had more of an impact than Frank Lampard, of the two Gerrard should be happier with what he's achieved on the international stage.

[eFestivals]

Agreed, you can't expect the likes of Milner, Barry, heskey to pull you through in these games. You need your matchwinners to stand up, that means Gerrard and Rooney.

Thing is, you've decided he's great but not doing it, and then via your opinion of him being great but not doing it he's a target for criticism.... while your opinion also lets off any you choose to let off.

Perhaps he just wasn't that good after all? Perhaps he's only a Milner or a Barry?

It's the all-pre-decided, form-doesn't-matter attitude you're using that results in Rooney getting picked constantly when he's only-ever shit, and then you say he's shit.

At the end of the day it ends up self-fulfilling, when perhaps the real error is the faith people like you place in them in the first place?

Edited July 21, 2014 by eFestivals

[Gucci Piggy]

His overall performance over the years, in all forms of the game, show he is a brilliant player, much better Milner and Barry. That's not to say I decide before he's kicked a ball that he should play 90 minutes of every match, but he should be more likely to have an impact than those two players. If he plays shite, drop him. That's what the attitude should be with Rooney, too.

[eFestivals]

His overall performance over the years, in all forms of the game, show he is a brilliant player, much better Milner and Barry. That's not to say I decide before he's kicked a ball that he should play 90 minutes of every match, but he should be more likely to have an impact than those two players. If he plays shite, drop him. That's what the attitude should be with Rooney, too.

With Gerrard as captain, he was always gonna be a starter at the WC. Wrong choice by Woy, but there you go. Once he'd made that choice he was gonna stick to it.

Keeping faith with Rooney was far madder, because there was no reason at all to play him.

[Andre91]

Who would be everyone's pick for captain then? I think it will end up being Hart, but I'm not a fan of a GK being captain, they aren't out there in the thick of it to lead the rest of the team. Rooney would be a terrible choice for captain, as it would mean he will continue to be in the starting XI (you would assume). My choice would be Gary Cahill.

[thetime]

Who would be everyone's pick for captain then? I think it will end up being Hart, but I'm not a fan of a GK being captain, they aren't out there in the thick of it to lead the rest of the team. Rooney would be a terrible choice for captain, as it would mean he will continue to be in the starting XI (you would assume). My choice would be Gary Cahill.

It will be Rooney.

[eFestivals]

My choice would be Gary Cahill.

I'd need some convincing. He seems the most uncaptain-like player out of all the regulars.

And realistically, there's only Cahill and Hart who are shoe-ins for every match. So it's gonna be Hart.

[eFestivals]

It will be Rooney.

Which sums up everything wrong with our setup....

Yup. It guarantees that Rooney will be thought of as a failure when he retires.

[pink_triangle]

Pitch leader? Morale booster when its all going to pot? Calming the other players down after a dodgey decision? and even from a PR role, its someone to galvanise the fans a little bit.

I don't think England really have a player who can do all that atm or anyone who deserves it on merit/experience

I think that's how the British see captaincy. I think the other nations see it as someone to wear an armband, then a coin toss

[eFestivals]

I think that's how the British see captaincy. I think the other nations see it as someone to wear an armband, then a coin toss

That's because there's no English person who isn't a natural leader.

[pink_triangle]

I think Gerrard has performed well for England over the years. Certainly not world class but nobody really has been for England. I would certainly say he's had more of an impact than Frank Lampard, of the two Gerrard should be happier with what he's achieved on the international stage.

Disagree, lampard scored against Portugal and (wrongly not allowed) Germany. I can't remember Gerrard doing anything in big games.

[pink_triangle]

Thing is, you've decided he's great but not doing it, and then via your opinion of him being great but not doing it he's a target for criticism.... while your opinion also lets off any you choose to let off.

Perhaps he just wasn't that good after all? Perhaps he's only a Milner or a Barry?

It's the all-pre-decided, form-doesn't-matter attitude you're using that results in Rooney getting picked constantly when he's only-ever shit, and then you say he's shit.

At the end of the day it ends up self-fulfilling, when perhaps the real error is the faith people like you place in them in the first place?

I don't think Rooney or Gerrard have been shot, just very average. Both have had the ability to play better as shown at domestic level.

[pink_triangle]

Who would be everyone's pick for captain then? I think it will end up being Hart, but I'm not a fan of a GK being captain, they aren't out there in the thick of it to lead the rest of the team. Rooney would be a terrible choice for captain, as it would mean he will continue to be in the starting XI (you would assume). My choice would be Gary Cahill.

Hart best choice, automatic starter, articulate and uncontroversial. Perfect for what I say as as predominantly pr role.

[The Nal]

Don't think he ever scored in an important match against a good team?

[eFestivals]

Disagree, lampard scored against Portugal and (wrongly not allowed) Germany. I can't remember Gerrard doing anything in big games.

Lampard was also one the worst players on the pitch in almost every game he played, but somehow you've forgotten when he's shit and only remembered a couple of golden moments. And the opposite for Gerrard.

[eFestivals]

I don't think Rooney or Gerrard have been shot, just very average. Both have had the ability to play better as shown at domestic level.

Yeah, well, Gerrard did when he was 25 and not 34.

And Rooney did when he was 19, and not 27.

Wasn't it about ten years ago that Jeffers was the new star? I'm surprised he's not still playing for England.

[eFestivals]

Total bollocks...

I've perhaps over-stated it, but Lampard has had loads of games where he's not been worth having on the pitch. Probably just off the back of that goal-that-never-was, he's coming out at the end with a slightly golden glow.

Mind you, the last five+ years of Beckham's England career was pointless too. But he was still shitting nuggets as far as most were concerned.

[kaosmark2]

Can we just agree that the England national team suck and have done so for a while?

[thetime]

Total bollocks... Yeah he had some shit games, he had some good games... But worse player every game ? come on...

Neil being defensive over a Liverpool player, who would of thought eh?

[eFestivals]

Neil being defensive over a Liverpool player, who would of thought eh?

I'm being 100% equal with what I'm saying about a Utd player, but your blinkers have blinded you to that, have they?

My first comment about Gerrard also started with the words...

thing is, despite how dreadfully Gerrard has played for England at times, ....

I'm actually just flagging up the ridiculous way these opinions work - which is basically saying "because Gerrard/Rooney is a better player than most other players he's a worse player". That's essentially what PT said.

But me pointing out the illogical self-serving views is me defending a Liverpool player when I'm saying he's been dreadful, and is me defending a Liverpool player when I'm saying identical things about a Utd player.

Yep, it's me that's biased. Definitely.

[Gucci Piggy]

I'm actually just flagging up the ridiculous way these opinions work - which is basically saying "because Gerrard/Rooney is a better player than most other players he's a worse player". That's essentially what PT said.

Not at all. He's saying, as many others are, that because Gerrard is a better player than most others, he should have performed to a greater standard for England than those other players, which he never did.