Football 2014/15

[eFestivals]

Although another fact is the season was over.

and so each player thought "all season people have thought I was playing shit, so I'm going to keep on playing shit"?

This is also within the context of an upcoming world cup for many squad members, so priorities change.

It might have got to Mata, who went to OT because he thought that would guarantee his WC place (and yet it did the opposite). But the others? Nah.

A major factor for Man utd poor season was poor player recruitment over a few transfer Windows, would be hard to blame that on giggs

and yet they were all the same players who'd won the league by a margin just a year before, so failed recruitment wasn't really it.

I'm not trying to blame a jot of anything on Giggs. I'm simply saying the issues go much deeper than just Moyes, which got proved by Giggs making no difference.

[pink_triangle]

and so each player thought "all season people have thought I was playing shit, so I'm going to keep on playing shit"?

It might have got to Mata, who went to OT because he thought that would guarantee his WC place (and yet it did the opposite). But the others? Nah.

and yet they were all the same players who'd won the league by a margin just a year before, so failed recruitment wasn't really it.

I'm not trying to blame a jot of anything on Giggs. I'm simply saying the issues go much deeper than just Moyes, which got proved by Giggs making no difference.

1. I don't think anyone thought I'm going to play shit, I also don't think dead rubbers are the best games to motivate players to play great.

2. Not just Mata, what is the incentive to get knackered or pick up an injury in a meaningless game

3. To win the league with those players shows fergie is a genius.

4. I agree the problems run deeper than moyes, although I think the owners were looking for stability with giggs, not expecting a big change.

4.

[adam1234]

And now scheiderlin has handed a transfer request in. Poor from him!

[eFestivals]

1. I don't think anyone thought I'm going to play shit, I also don't think dead rubbers are the best games to motivate players to play great.

but a new manager situation very definitely does perk up players. They know they have to play for their place.

2. Not just Mata, what is the incentive to get knackered or pick up an injury in a meaningless game

having a place in the team next season, rather than getting sold on as too-shit.

3. To win the league with those players shows fergie is a genius.

That's an assumption too far at the current time. There's not enough data to show that's what was reaslly going on just yet.

(tho I'm certainly not dismissing it as impossible. It might well be the case).

4. I agree the problems run deeper than moyes, although I think the owners were looking for stability with giggs, not expecting a big change.

I don't think they were necessarily thinking it would change things, but if the problem was Moyes and just Moyes it certainly should have done.

Which was my point. The problems at Utd run far deeper than merely who the manager is.

[lost]

A few places reporting lukaku to Everton done and Atsu following on loan. Still don't believe Everton are spending that sort of money till its confirmed

Edited July 30, 2014 by lost

[Benj]

Its a pittence* with the new TV money

*easilly affordable for Everton considering in addition the sale of Fellaini last year which has not been spent

[Bobs]

A few places reporting lukaku to Everton done and Atsu following on loan. Still don't believe Everton are spending that sort of money till its confirmed

It's already done.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Bobs

[eFestivals]

Other clubs would go wild for a failure like Kenwright.

[TheGayTent]

Other clubs would go wild for a failure like Kenwright.

I would.

[mrtourette]

Compared to those shithouses at West Ham he's a dream chairman.

[eFestivals]

I would.

Compared to those shithouses at West Ham he's a dream chairman.

Personally, I don't think there's any better (tho perhaps one or two might match him).

He might not be able to flood the club with money, but he always comes thru well enough - to the extent that Everton have been able to out-perform moneybags clubs year after year after year.

[eFestivals]

what I mean is .. the Everton fans who call for him to go now and then want their heads looking at.

[mrtourette]

Very true. The situation is complicated by the fact that he's maintained for years that he's trying to sell the club but always seems to get in the way of potential investors/buyers, but yes should the club be bought out by someone with billions we'll probably all be moaning about being owned by just another Sheikh, US investment firm or oligarch. Everton fans moan about a lack of investment but secretly they love the fact that we're performing well with a 'proper' chairman.

[lost]

We've been helped by the new sky money and the club did a good job tying down alot of the squad to long contracts just before it started filtering through.. Definitely on a much firmer footing the last couple of the years. The main issue was around the time of the arteta sale whether it was forced by the banks or not Moyes didn't get the money at Christmas which alot of the fans were questioning, Looking at the accounts at the time I'd say we did overstretch ourselves with the wages going to Cahill, Neville, Arteta and Yakubu so had to sell to stand still.

This is definitely the first "statement" signing I'd say the club has made since kanchelskis.. really pleased.

Edited July 30, 2014 by lost

[LondonTom]

what I mean is .. the Everton fans who call for him to go now and then want their heads looking at.

Well you've got to have something to moan about in Football

I'd bite his hand for a similar sort of owner. (Hell just owners whose main piroirity isn't trying to get quotes in the back pages regardless of how they might undermine the club.)

[Benj]

what I mean is .. the Everton fans who call for him to go now and then want their heads looking at.

Agree 100%

[Benj]

Very true. The situation is complicated by the fact that he's maintained for years that he's trying to sell the club but always seems to get in the way of potential investors/buyers, but yes should the club be bought out by someone with billions we'll probably all be moaning about being owned by just another Sheikh, US investment firm or oligarch. Everton fans moan about a lack of investment but secretly they love the fact that we're performing well with a 'proper' chairman.

What buyers/ investors?

No one serious has ever come out of the woodwork, I'm just glad he's seen the long term prospects and not sold up for a quick buck to a Venkies type.

Until any stadium plans are in place, Everton will not be a going concern who's value can be fully realised, in the meantime he'd be utterly daft to sell up with the TV revenues ever spiraling upwards

[kaosmark2]

Looking at the accounts at the time I'd say we did overstretch ourselves with the wages going to Cahill, Neville, Arteta and Yakubu so had to sell to stand still.

This is my biggest criticism of both how Everton have been managed, and the "Everton don't spend" myth. They've been paying massive wages in proportion to most of the clubs finishing below them for years.

[Benj]

This is my biggest criticism of both how Everton have been managed, and the "Everton don't spend" myth. They've been paying massive wages in proportion to most of the clubs finishing below them for years.

I have no idea what clubs below have paid but don't think Everton have paid wages over proportionately to money spent on signings and would almost say the opposite, that they have signed big but not spunked loads on wages

The Everton don't spend myth is deffo a myth, they've made a number of large signings over the years, Wages have never seemed to be massive though, think Baines is the highest paid at the club, only recently moving on to 70k odd a week, much, much less than Shaw at Utd is on and certainly not in any kind of big league

As I say though, no idea what the likes of Newcastle, Villa etc pay, can't imagine it's much lower than that though for their top players

[kaosmark2]

I have no idea what clubs below have paid but don't think Everton have paid wages over proportionately to money spent on signings and would almost say the opposite, that they have signed big but not spunked loads on wages

The Everton don't spend myth is deffo a myth, they've made a number of large signings over the years, Wages have never seemed to be massive though, think Baines is the highest paid at the club, only recently moving on to 70k odd a week, much, much less than Shaw at Utd is on and certainly not in any kind of big league

As I say though, no idea what the likes of Newcastle, Villa etc pay, can't imagine it's much lower than that though for their top players

I think Colo's our highest paid on 50k/week, with most first-teamers being 25k. Hell Arteta took a wage cut to go to Arsenal. Everton have been making an effort to reduce wages generally though, which makes a lot of sense to me.

Oh yeah, there's a number of big transfers in (mostly flops) that have been made. Wages are lower than all the clubs that typically finish above them, but I don't think there's many lower teams who've been spending less on wages. I think the wage bill for Everton under the Moyes era was 8th in the league, with Newcastle being the main underachievers (largely due to overpaid wastes of space like Owen/Luque signed during the Souness/Shepherd era).

[lost]

I'm talking a while ago now but arteta took a pay cut to goto Arsenal.. I think he was on 60 -65k when it was alot. Also have to look at at our commercial revenues which I think are below teams like villa and stoke. We've dropped a down the wage table alot recently hence my comment about getting players signed up before the money went up which is obviously why we can now drop this sort of money on a striker.

I did like this on twitter:

Edited July 30, 2014 by lost

[Benj]

I think Colo's our highest paid on 50k/week, with most first-teamers being 25k. Hell Arteta took a wage cut to go to Arsenal. Everton have been making an effort to reduce wages generally though, which makes a lot of sense to me. Oh yeah, there's a number of big transfers in (mostly flops) that have been made. Wages are lower than all the clubs that typically finish above them, but I don't think there's many lower teams who've been spending less on wages. I think the wage bill for Everton under the Moyes era was 8th in the league, with Newcastle being the main underachievers (largely due to overpaid wastes of space like Owen/Luque signed during the Souness/Shepherd era).

You flog all your best players though!

Wouldn't say 'most' of the big signings have been flops, Fellaimi and Johnson were both sold for more, whilst Yakubu got injured, only Bilyaletmidown is the one I can think were we took a big loss on simply a bad signing, Beattie too perhaps if that was classed as loads at the time, may be forgetting some though

There's certainly a few on 60k a week though and I would certainly assume we were at least 8th in the payment tables if Newcastle pay less

[Benj]

I'm talking a while ago now but arteta took a pay cut to goto Arsenal.. I think he was on 60 -65k when it was alot. Also have to look at at our commercial revenues which I think are below teams like villa and stoke. We've dropped a down the wage table alot recently hence my comment about getting players signed up before the money went up which is obviously why we can now drop this sort of money on a striker.I did like this on twitter:

That was only a couple of years back wasn't it? Certainly doesn't seem much for a player who became a mainstay of the Arsenal team and commanded a 10 million plus transfer at his age

Hahah I know exactly who's done that pic!

Edited July 30, 2014 by Benj

[lost]

That was only a couple of years back wasn't it? Certainly doesn't seem much for a player who became a mainstay of the Arsenal team and commanded a 10 million plus transfer at his age

3 I think, not sure if the new sky money has been in place for one or two seasons but we've kept our wages pretty static whilst its been in place. I think we were down to 10th in wages for 12/13.

[kaosmark2]

You flog all your best players though!

Wouldn't say 'most' of the big signings have been flops, Fellaimi and Johnson were both sold for more, whilst Yakubu got injured, only Bilyaletmidown is the one I can think were we took a big loss on simply a bad signing, Beattie too perhaps if that was classed as loads at the time, may be forgetting some though

There's certainly a few on 60k a week though and I would certainly assume we were at least 8th in the payment tables if Newcastle pay less

SIgn em cheap, give em a new contract on 40k after they've had a good season, sell em for over double....

I'd argue Beattie. I think the big thing IMO is the massive loan fees paid for players who didn't work out. Drenthe cost nearly £3m loan fee!

I imagine you're still 8th as Stoke pay far too much. We would have been above you until we got relegated though. We used to pay stupid.