Galtres Festival destroy Traders Lives

[adamscae]

How can the organisers of the Galtres Festival plan to go ahead next year when they owe traders well over £100,000 and have put some of them out of business. They went into this years festival owing over 200,000 and knew it wouldn't be viable. How many other people are going to loose out before this festival is closed or taken over and run by honest people who actually care about the festival and not about themselves and the profit they can make.

Edited September 16, 2014 by adamscae

[5co77ie]

So, I wonder did the money collected on the cashless system go to pay their existing debts or has it been trousered?

[5co77ie]

Their financials suggest they were in debt to the tune of around £30,000 not £200,000:

http://companies.findthebest.co.uk/l/1198072/Galtres-Festival-in-York-United-Kingdom

Edited September 16, 2014 by 5co77ie

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

http://www.galtresfestival.org.uk/news.cfm

[Ringo_Spar]

Their financials suggest they were in debt to the tune of around £30,000 not £200,000:

http://companies.findthebest.co.uk/l/1198072/Galtres-Festival-in-York-United-Kingdom

That figure is dated 2013 - so quite conceivable they have racked up further debt in the course of putting the festival on this year. I hope they make good their promise to pay out to traders asap. Edited September 16, 2014 by LevellerRich

[grumpyhack]

I'm confused. Don't traders usually pay festivals to have a pitch? You want a stall at Glasto and you pay GFL thousands.

So how come in this case Galtres is supposed to be paying traders?

I appreciate that festivals do buy in things like stages, tents, sound, lighting and other infrastructure along with bands but I would tend to call those people suppliers or performers, not traders.

So who is supposed to be out of pocket?

Edited September 16, 2014 by grumpyhack

[Ringo_Spar]

I'm confused. Don't traders usually pay festivals to have a pitch? You want a stall at Glasto and you pay GFL thousands.

So how come in this case Galtres is supposed to be paying traders?

I appreciate that festivals do buy in things like stages, tents, sound, lighting and other infrastructure along with bands but I would tend to call those people suppliers or performers, not traders.

So who is supposed to be out of pocket?

No upfront pitch fee - but the payment card system means the festival organisers know the exact amount of turnover by each trader then charges them a percentage (and probably some fee to cover the use of the cashless system technology). At the end of the festival each trader was given a statement showing how much money they were due to be paid by the organisers.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

No upfront pitch fee - but the payment card system means the festival organisers know the exact amount of turnover by each trader then charges them a percentage (and probably some fee to cover the use of the cashless system technology). At the end of the festival each trader was given a statement showing how much money they were due to be paid by the organisers.

Wow. I didn't know that kind of system existed at a festival. It's not one I'd have bought in to - but then I'm not a successful trader. Had this system been used before at this festival, or at other festivals to your knowledge?

[Ringo_Spar]

Wow. I didn't know that kind of system existed at a festival. It's not one I'd have bought in to - but then I'm not a successful trader. Had this system been used before at this festival, or at other festivals to your knowledge?

Cashless systems in use at some major festivals, Galtres first UK indie to use it last year (as reported by efests). A couple of years ago this kind of system was touted as the future for festivals.

[grumpyhack]

I encountered the opposite at my favourite festival this year - Farmer Phil's at Ratlinghope near Shrewsbury. No upfront pitch fee but Farmer Phil trusted the traders to give him a percentage of their profits at the end. And, as far as I know, they all did.

It really was a lovely example of old style trust and one of the reasons why it will be my first choice fest for next year.

[Ringo_Spar]

I encountered the opposite at my favourite festival this year - Farmer Phil's at Ratlinghope near Shrewsbury. No upfront pitch fee but Farmer Phil trusted the traders to give him a percentage of their profits at the end. And, as far as I know, they all did.

It really was a lovely example of old style trust and one of the reasons why it will be my first choice fest for next year.

Aye, tis a nice little gathering, Farmer Phil's. Great ale. Bit tricky to get to in anything bigger than a Mini!

[airds]

That figure is dated 2013 - so quite conceivable they have racked up further debt in the course of putting the festival on this year. I hope they make good their promise to pay out to traders asap.

So do I, but I cant see how they can.

If they have run out of money, where will the new money come from ?, I assume they are thinking ticket sales but who would buy a ticket for next year festival now ? and who would trade there ?

I said before on other forums, I went for the first time there this year and loved the music, but the organisation was sh*t, I really couldnt believe they have been going for 10 years

......also looking back other the last few weeks before the festival.......they offered a lifetime ticket for £500 quid, with loads of extras, including cheap mate rates, which did spike my spider senses and the g-cards suddenly cost £2 for cash topups, which before the £2 was only for credit card topups, which made me think things werent going great.......strange festival with great music

To declare an interest, I am down £40 and hopefully will get it back through paypal, Im lucky that I can afford to loose that if I dont, some people wont be, and will have lost a hell of a lot more.... I really cant see a happy ending for this, but Im hoping the traders will get their money, everyone I talked to was really nice

ps I got talking to one of the organisers mum & dad when I was there, they were complaining to me that 2 of traders didnt turn up......lucky them, eh ?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Cashless systems in use at some major festivals, Galtres first UK indie to use it last year (as reported by efests). A couple of years ago this kind of system was touted as the future for festivals.

Thanks for the information. I recall cashless systems being mentioned quite some time back, but didn't really get into reading up on it in any detail. This lack of knowledge left me with the conclusion that there was some sort of direct transfer of money per cashless purchase straight into the traders bank account from the point of sale. Maybe this would / could be a way forward for cashless systems, with perhaps traders having a certain percentage of each sale diverted to the festival owners account at the same time to cover their pitch costs. Just a thought.

Anybody know if the cashless systems were created for the benefit of the traders, or were they marketed towards the festival organisers? I could see that some traders would be interested in a properly working cashless system to avoid pilfering by staff. I suppose one element of the sales pitch for cashless systems may have been so that the festival organisers could actually 'see' the profits being made and decided to go down the percentage route rather than the cost per pitch route. Interesting stuff really. Especially if you're wired and at a loose end at around 5am!

[5co77ie]

for those that don't read the front page news there was a story on this yesterday here:

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/14/140913b.shtml

Edited September 17, 2014 by 5co77ie

[LondonTom]

Anybody know if the cashless systems were created for the benefit of the traders, or were they marketed towards the festival organisers? I could see that some traders would be interested in a properly working cashless system to avoid pilfering by staff.

So far? I think they are mainly being marketed towards the benfit of the organisers.Better tracking of what traders are doing/how much they are making/where punters are spending their money etc.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

So far? I think they are mainly being marketed towards the benfit of the organisers.Better tracking of what traders are doing/how much they are making/where punters are spending their money etc.

Thanks for the info Tom.

It's more Big Brother stuff really when you think about it from one angle. It also smacks of greed a little - squeezing the last drop of profit from small traders.

[jump]

Thanks for the info Tom.

It's more Big Brother stuff really when you think about it from one angle. It also smacks of greed a little - squeezing the last drop of profit from small traders.

I do agree with you but it's not squeezing the last drops of profits as it's money they have both agreed with and owe. It's the system itself that's taking the piss.

Edited September 17, 2014 by jump

[popupgazebo]

Hi i am one of the traders from Galtres.

just take a loan in the bank to pay off my depts!

I don't think I will be able to trade again next year at the music festivals after love doing it for 8 years.

Casless sistem was not a problem!

It is organisers who basically robbed us to be able to put on another event. below is a part of the letter i have received from James Houston:

	• we can’t use ticket sales revenues for 2015 to pay back 2014 liabilities. if we do, we won’t be able to put on a 2015 festival
 
	• any negative publicity surrounding this situation will reduce the profitability of next year’s event, and so reduce the likelihood of you being repaid
 
	• if you take action to wind up Galtres Festival Trading Ltd, you will effectively wipe all the debt away, and remove the channel through which repayments may be made
 

[eFestivals]

Blimey!

[atomised]

Almost sounds threatening.

[eFestivals]

So, as a trader, what IS your view about publicity?

While I'm condoning nothing of what you've quoted, it is quite possibly is the case that the 2nd and 3rd points apply, and you'll possibly lose all chances of seeing any further money.

Did you sign a contract over how the cashless system would operate (including payment back to you)? If so, what is being done is quite possibly fraudulent, and could see people arrested.

Actually, I'd say it's already fraudulent in regard to company law, because that seems to me that it's an insolvent business.

[eFestivals]

In the absence of further information, efestivals has chosen to remove Galtres 2015 from our listings.

If/when things are clarified to our satisfaction, we may decide to put the listing back.

[popupgazebo]

we do have a contract with Galtres but only for 20% of our takings. they supposed to held our money in between transaction only. event was indeed very porly run and after they close the business, they shift all our money to the new company that has been set up for 2015 event. After the festival I naturally paid all my staff from my pocket, and I lost this money together with all the stock I provide for the weekend. I have sold almost 2000 portions and 4 of us worked very hard to achive that. But organisers decided to kept all our money! we are talking about more than 40 traders affected and more are coming up. also few traders from previous years just contacted us telling how they didn't receive their moneys.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

and remove the channel through which repayments may be made.

 
The word 'may' just jumps out at you in that sentence. Surely if the owners / organisers 
were honourable people, then they'd create a way in which to pay back those they owe money

to out of any profits from the 2015 event using another financial vehicle, even if Galtres Festival Trading Ltd were to be wound up ie. they'd pay the people they owe money to before they pay themselves next year. But then again

I can only think that they created Galtres Festival Trading Ltd as a form of financial insurance for themselves anyway - otherwise wouldn't they have traded under Galtres Festival Charitable Foundation to begin with?

Note - I have no idea why the font changed above during my post. No need for anyone to explain, as I'll just not 'get it' anyway.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I do agree with you but it's not squeezing the last drops of profits as it's money they have both agreed with and owe. It's the system itself that's taking the piss.

Apologies - that's actually what I was trying to say. I didn't mean they were squeezing the traders by not paying them at all, I meant that the system in place (if it worked properly) is designed to scrutinize in an oppressive manner - in my opinion.