Galtres Festival destroy Traders Lives

[gizmoman]

While i'm sorry for the traders that have been scammed by this festival i'm actually delighted that this situation will cause most if not all traders to give any future cashless scheme a wide berth. As a punter you have the RIGHT to pay by cash if you wish, any festival restricting your choice doesn't deserve your custom IMO. If festivals want to introduce new schemes let them run alongside current payment methods so everyone can decide which they prefer. I've always had my doubts about cashless systems, now the traders know what NO CASH really means.

[JamesLondon]

You should check out the so called charitable holding company's accounts at the charity commission http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1116636&SubsidiaryNumber=0

It's probably worth someone contacting the Charity Commission: I suspect the legal weak point is whether the traders' money was something the event had any right to spend, at which point the directors of the company may be liable (I'm not a lawyer, but know a little about company law around money), but the trustees of the charity would also need to show that they handled things properly, or they're potentially liable too. There are strict rules about paying money, directly or indirectly, to people connected to a trustee, let alone people who are actually trustees. The Commission's investigations team are slow (they often defer to police if there's a criminal investigation running too), but thorough...

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

It's probably worth someone contacting the Charity Commission:

I read your post and thought that it would indeed be in the public interest if the Charity Commission were to be made aware. So I have just reported it to them.

[charli2000]

Agreed Mr Yoghurt.. While they might do that, it's a very thin thread for traders to cling to, what with his personal record and previous form, there's no incentive for traders to keep quiet.

Some humility from Galtres could have greased the cogs.. an apology... a meet you half way deal... a free pitch for next year.. or a share of gate revenue from next year, even!

Shows a deep lack of understanding on their part, and exposed their cruel ruthless streak as business people.

[oggiesnr]

The festival had trouble in 2012 and I'm aware of some people who accepted a three year payment plan to get their money, presumably they've been caught yet again.

After 2013 I decided not to trade this year as I didn't trust the G card system. In the best implementations of this ALL the money goes into an escrow account which is legally ring fenced and so the traders' money is secure. It was apparent last year that this was not the case.

The "only take a percentage" concept seems like a good idea but actually is fairly bad. In theory it should protect you against a bad show, in practice it means if you have a bad show you still have a bad show but if you have a good show then you can never make as much as you could because you pay that percentage way past any standard stall fee you would have paid. It also means that the organiser doesn't know what their income from concessions will be which makes it hard to budget. It does however allow them to invent the figure necessary to cover any financial black holes that might appear

"Er, Boss,we appear to be a few grand short on the budget"

"No problem, just add into ourtrader income!".

Should the list of creditors finally appear I'll be interested to see if any bands, stage equipment or the beer companies are on it.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Agreed Mr Yoghurt.. While they might do that, it's a very thin thread for traders to cling to, what with his personal record and previous form, there's no incentive for traders to keep quiet.

The traders might not get their money back at the end of the day in any case, but I think the Charity Commission should be duty bound to investigate whether financial impropriety has taken place by the trustees of this charity. If they were to do so and find financial impropriety had taken place, then the traders might at least be able to experience a little schadenfreude if legal proceedings take place. I'm not exactly experienced in this area so don't know with any certainty, but it would appear to me that if they soon find they've got the might of the Charity Commission looking into their affairs then they may be forced to reverse any previous/ and possibly illegal actions they have taken ie. It might occur to them that it would be prudent to pay the traders what they are owed. I'll concede that might just be wishful thinking on my part though.

[outtolunch]

a new statement has been issued and restrictions put on the facebook group

http://www.galtresfestival.org.uk/

[JosefS]

One of the mission statements of "Crucial Consulting" (another James Houston venture) is;

"And we can also help you to sound credible when talking to hoodies who live in Facebook-land)."

Hahaha!

http://www.crucial-media.net/Consulting.html

[Ringo_Spar]

What an obnoxious cockwomble.

[atomised]

Last time a festival closed access to its social media platforms it was alt fest. ....

[Qwerty12]

It is possible for creditors to have the company placed into compulsary liquidation rather than accept the damage limitation position taken by Huston and his co directors of voluntary liquidation see this link:-

http://www.detini.gov.uk/insolvency-voluntary-liquidation

Given the positions held by some of the directors of the charity and the trading company in promoting business in and around York one has to wonder if ...they should consider the positions and offices they hold and do the decent thing and resign from those grant making bodies.

For the record; Guilfest when it went bust a couple of years ago (2012) closed its forum to try and 'manage' debate amongst festival goers. In the long run that festival lost public support with people voting with their feet. The statement put out by Galtres smacks of old style Cold War belligerence in the face of growing disaffection and dissatisfaction from its most important stakeholders - the ticket buying public.

[JosefS]

As the festival is "owned" by the Galtres Festival charitable foundation I think the first port of call would be the Charity Commission. Based on statements of the creditors, the accounts and the relationship of the Trustees and the companies involved with running the festival, they will be able to see if any regulations have been broken. The Charities Commission also have an obligation to take legal action if their investigation concludes that wrong doing has been done.

But you are right though Qwerty12, the only reason that Galtres has been able to continue trading and therefore continue running up debts is because people keep buying tickets. As Barry Hogan, the guy behind ATP, said a few years ago; "promoting concerts is like going to the races".

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

"We welcome the investigations into the festival business, which we are confident will exonerate us and allow us to move on. We are voluntarily opening our books and records to the police so that they may establish no wrong-doing has taken place. Similarly the insolvency process, which we have instigated, will involve a thorough investigation into the financial management of the business and the conduct of the directors."

I'd be interested in the process taken in involving the police. I'm not saying that they have not involved the police, it would just have been more transparent if they had given more detail in this area. Surely the police would only get involved if there were firm evidence given to them of wrong doing, rather than act as an auditor for any company that came along requesting their own books be looked at.

[gizmoman]

"But bewilderingly, despite the highly positive feedback, attendances did not grow at the required rate. It would be hard to question the quality of the event, which has been said by media and attendees to rival the likes of Glastonbury, but despite that it didn’t generate the sales it deserved and needed."

“This is not the end of the road, however. The Trustees of the Foundation which owns the festival have carefully examined the business model, and despite all the problems over several years remain convinced that the event can be profitable, provided costs are kept in check and growth continues. Future profits are one of the means for the repayment of debts."

This sounds like a classic ponzi scheme to me. They are relying on increasing attendance and therefore income each year in order to pay off the previous years losses. I'm not so bewildered as to the lack of punters, ALL festivals (except Glasto) are struggling to sell out, there is now market saturation, this festival should downsize and put on a properly budgeted smaller event that hopefully would make some money, the ludicrous G card system is a turn off for people (see the review on here) as well as scamming the traders it scams the public by charging for issuance, top up, and loses any credit left on the card at the end. If they want to attract any traders next year they will have to ditch it IMO.

[naarjtie]

ALL festivals (except Glasto) are struggling to sell out, there is now market saturation,

It's not nearly that bad. Out of the 12 festivals I attended this year 8 of them sold out in advance and reported their best year yet, and at a meeting of independent festivals last week the common theme was audiences were up and the majority of members similarly experienced their best year.

It's a shame that this situation is tarnishing cashless payment, which does bring some benefits (sadly we don't have a large enough sample size of festivals implementing this to research what effect it has on reduced tent theft, for instance). It just absolutely staggers belief that the money wasn't ring fenced - I'm surprised there wasn't a legal requirement to do so. Such a shame for all those traders.

Edited September 21, 2014 by naarjtie

[Ringo_Spar]

what effect it has on reduced tent theft, for instance)

Do these things have a chip/pin or some security measure otherwise cashless payment cards are basically cash - and nobody is gonna go to a festival without cash anyway. The 'combat crime' angle is a spin, cashless systems prime purpose is maximum income for the festival.

[airds]

great press release

"which has been said by media and attendees to rival the likes of Glastonbury"

really ?

I went for the first time this year, but wasnt planning going back, even before all the g-card problems

I saw some good music there, met some really nice people, but other festivals I have been to are better, and since there is a lot of choice now a days you may as well go some where else

The comments on the FB page have been edited/deleted to only include the positive comments, nice eh ?

BTW my lad went to Exit / Sea Dance Festivals and they had cashless system, which he said worked great, but you could take your money back off the card/wristband at the end, which makes more sense

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

It just absolutely staggers belief that the money wasn't ring fenced - I'm surprised there wasn't a legal requirement to do so.

This area interests me also. Even if there weren't a legal requirement, one would have thought that they'd be a moral one and that it would have been implemented. So, if there is a legal requirement, then they have avoided adhering to it. If not, then they have chosen to avoid the moral requirement. Well, that's the way I view the situation anyway. However, I'm no expert so would be keen to hear any information that would negate that perspective.

[naarjtie]

Do these things have a chip/pin or some security measure otherwise cashless payment cards are basically cash - and nobody is gonna go to a festival without cash anyway. The 'combat crime' angle is a spin, cashless systems prime purpose is maximum income for the festival.

Aye, but it can only be spent at the festival on food / merch etc. This is of no interest to the professional gangs that target music festivals, and when it comes to tent theft they're 99% of the problem. Also, when properly implemented these cards can be cancelled when lost and a new one issued, similar to your bank card.

BTW my lad went to Exit / Sea Dance Festivals and they had cashless system, which he said worked great, but you could take your money back off the card/wristband at the end, which makes more sense

It's up to the festival what happens to the unspent money at the end - whether it's refunded, held over for next year or just 'disappears'.

[jamj]

Aye, but it can only be spent at the festival on food / merch etc. This is of no interest to the professional gangs that target music festivals, and when it comes to tent theft they're 99% of the problem.

We were robbed at Galtres, they took everything and left the g cards......which was really really nice of them.........

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

We were robbed at Galtres, they took everything and left the g cards......which was really really nice of them.........

Sorry to hear that you were the victims of these thieving bastards. I was going to post last night that I thought the g card system wouldn't stop thieving, as people will still have some cash in their wallets, and will also have things like mobile phones, cameras etc that are worth money and are easily sold on.

[JosefS]

On the same day Galtres Festival Trading Ltd was put into liquidation, 12th September, James Houston set up a new Company called Parklands Trading Limited. I suspect that all the GCard cash has gone into this company so he can fund a new festival with money that isn't really his. I suppose festival suppliers should be very wary if they are approached by Parkland Trading to supply goods or services.

[airds]

I got a nice email last night

<quote>

Dear Richard Aird,

Because we were unable to obtain additional information from GALTRES FESTIVAL TRADING LIMITED, this claim has been decided in your favour and you've received a refund of £40.00 GBP.

</quote>

So anyone who lost money on the g-cards, try paypal

Its a shame the traders cant use this route

[outtolunch]

not much good to me as the £45 on mine was for working on the bar but at least looks hopeful for the paypal claim for the earlybird ticket

[Qwerty12]

I wonder if the new trading company, Parklands Trading, is also a subsidiary of the charity given that the previous Galtres Trading co was established inorder to ensure: The financial success of the Charity depends largely on the financial success of the annual festival and the ability of the festival operator to pay the licence fees due to the charity.........Risk to the charity has also been mitigated by the establishment of a subsidiary trading company, which also provides for maximum benefit from trading activity. The articles of the subsidiary require that all profits are passed to the charity. From the most recent accounts to be found on the Charity Commission web site.