General Election 2015

[bunique]

I think they've already thrown it at him as shadow secretary. They'd have to come up with something a bit more recent than that.

I heard Keir Stamner's name mentioned yesterday as a potential candidate for leadership. I know next to nothing about him though.

[pink_triangle]

You think Burnham can win because you see the things you like about him and you haven't seen the effects of 4 weeks of Tory press campaigning on Mid Staffs. The odd article, yes. But not election saturation press.

Care to provide any quotes when I talk about liking Burnham?

[eFestivals]

I note you omitted to reply to the second part of the post where I said...

"Is it utter bull? If it is ,your repeated claim that the Snp got 49% of the vote is utter bull. "

the SNP got 49.97% of the vote by my reckoning. Rounding it to whole numbers gives 50%. Rounding it to 1 decimal place gives 50.0%

so 49% is wrong & by your logic, utter Bull.

Thank you for your admission that you have been talking utter Bull, Neil.

I see you still want to pretend that the SNP is at least half of Scotland - and you HATE it when I point out it's not.

Which is better than Stiurgeon I guess, who keep suggesting it's all of Scotland.

[Comfy Bean]

Do we agree that when we add in the green vote, more than 50% of Scotland voted for pro-independence, anti austerity, anti nuclear parties?

[eFestivals]

Do we agree that when we add in the green vote, more than 50% of Scotland voted for pro-independence, anti austerity, anti nuclear parties?

do we agree that most people voted for right wing parties?

There was no Scottish election, just a UK one.

There was no SNP coalition with the Scottish Burn-All-The-Oil Not-Green Party, either.

So no. It's nothing like you say, but if drawing imaginary lines means anything at all, Bristol is FAR more progressive than Scotland.

AND we've got our own currency.

Edited May 16, 2015 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

Bloody bristol and their separatist attitudes ;-)

More than 50% of those who voted in my region voted for parties that support the 3 things I mentioned. No amount of smoke and mirrors can change that.

I ain't getting into Scotland is as much of a country as bristol again

:-)

We already agreed to disagree on that one.

[LJS]

do we agree that most people voted for right wing parties?

There was no Scottish election, just a UK one.

There was no SNP coalition with the Scottish Burn-All-The-Oil Not-Green Party, either.

So no. It's nothing like you say, but if drawing imaginary lines means anything at all, Bristol is FAR more progressive than Scotland.

AND we've got our own currency.

1. You started the discussion about what % of Scots voted SNP. now you've been found out talking utter bull, you deem that discussion invalid.

2. The Scottish Greens' policy on oil is a squirrel to divert from the fact that comfy was correct. As is your statement that there was no coalition between Snp & greens. Totally irrelevant.

3. Even so you are again talking utter bullpoops. here's what the crazy green oil burners say...

"The fossil fuel reserves we already have cannot be safely burnt. Fracking and other unconventional fossil fuel methods have no place in Scotland to make a fair contribution to international climate change efforts we will have to leave some fossil fuels in the ground and unburnt" - See more at: https://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/policy/energy/#sthash.cA0mXs0W.dpuf

4. As for imaginary lines, if we are discussing the level of Snp support, which YOU were, and which you regularly lie about, it is pretty sensible to talk about Scotland, wouldn't you agree?

5. Oh, & yes i agree that most people in England voted for right wing parties. Just one of many reasons so many of us want out of the Union.

[feral chile]

do we agree that most people voted for right wing parties?

There was no Scottish election, just a UK one.

There was no SNP coalition with the Scottish Burn-All-The-Oil Not-Green Party, either.

So no. It's nothing like you say, but if drawing imaginary lines means anything at all, Bristol is FAR more progressive than Scotland.

AND we've got our own currency.

If the UK government was better at being fair throughout the UK, you might not have so many regions/countries feeling unrepresented.

[feral chile]

1. You started the discussion about what % of Scots voted SNP. now you've been found out talking utter bull, you deem that discussion invalid.

2. The Scottish Greens' policy on oil is a squirrel to divert from the fact that comfy was correct. As is your statement that there was no coalition between Snp & greens. Totally irrelevant.

3. Even so you are again talking utter bullpoops. here's what the crazy green oil burners say...

"The fossil fuel reserves we already have cannot be safely burnt. Fracking and other unconventional fossil fuel methods have no place in Scotland to make a fair contribution to international climate change efforts we will have to leave some fossil fuels in the ground and unburnt" - See more at: https://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/policy/energy/#sthash.cA0mXs0W.dpuf

4. As for imaginary lines, if we are discussing the level of Snp support, which YOU were, and which you regularly lie about, it is pretty sensible to talk about Scotland, wouldn't you agree?

5. Oh, & yes i agree that most people in England voted for right wing parties. Just one of many reasons so many of us want out of the Union.

Agreed.

[eFestivals]

More than 50% of those who voted in my region voted for parties that support the 3 things I mentioned. No amount of smoke and mirrors can change that.

what about the smoke and mirrors which has you one minute saying people vote for these parties who don't want indy, while the next you claim them as supporters of indy?

Or doesn't your own bullshit count as bullshit?

Oh, that's right, it's only the majority in Scotland who are bullshitters, it's the minority who are perfection.

Such perfection that they regard their own policies as "suicide".

[eFestivals]

1. You started the discussion about what % of Scots voted SNP. now you've been found out talking utter bull, you deem that discussion invalid.

No, I started this tangent about the BBC's bullshit, which you've agreed is bullshit.

And yet you're picking an argument over it.

And that's because you don't like true facts that make the SNP's bullshit look like the bullshit it is.

2. The Scottish Greens' policy on oil is a squirrel to divert from the fact that comfy was correct. As is your statement that there was no coalition between Snp & greens. Totally irrelevant.

The Scottish Green's policy on oil is the one true fact which proves them as not a Green party, but let's just fporget about that bit, yeah?

Contradictions are the new Scottish truths.

3. Even so you are again talking utter bullpoops. here's what the crazy green oil burners say...

so they can do the SNP's trick of saying one thing one minute and the opposite the next. Wow!

Those yo-yo Scots and Farage should team up, they've got the same methods.

4. As for imaginary lines, if we are discussing the level of Snp support, which YOU were, and which you regularly lie about, it is pretty sensible to talk about Scotland, wouldn't you agree?

As we are talking about levels of SNP support, how did the Greens suddenly become the subject of discussion by SNP supporters?

5. Oh, & yes i agree that most people in England voted for right wing parties. Just one of many reasons so many of us want out of the Union.

No, what you mean is that the majority of your country voted for right wing parties.

You seem to have forgotten which is your country.

You seem to have forgotten Scotland's self-determination.

You seem to have forgotten the democratic rights of the people of Scotland.

What was it you said yesterday? That you're a democrat?

Edited May 16, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Agreed.

In much the same way I say it to the Scots here...

Have you looked at your country's accounts?

If you think Wales would be a better place with half the public spending it has now, I suggest you don't understand what 'better' means.

Your countrymen are smarter than you.

[eFestivals]

If the UK government was better at being fair throughout the UK, you might not have so many regions/countries feeling unrepresented.

yeah, the UK govt is feckin' horrible, supporting Wales at over twice it's income. Nasty nasty Westminster.

Norhern Ireland is better funded than England, at England's expense.

Scotland is better funded than England, at England's expense.

Wales is at least as well funded as England, at England's expense.

Nasty nasty Westminster.

That's not me saying that things couldn't be done better by the UK (especially in Wales), but the nationalist bullshit is only bullshit.

It's certainly the case that Scotland deserves a lesser share of UK cash, because it's able to afford what other parts of the UK cannot.

In fact, it's Scotland that's robbing Wales, and not England.

If you want Nationalist war, at least be smart enough to pick the right target. If you pick the wrong one you'll find out (as Scotland will soonish) that you're punching yourself in the face.

Edited May 16, 2015 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

yeah, the UK govt is feckin' horrible, supporting Wales at over twice it's income. Nasty nasty Westminster.

Norhern Ireland is better funded than England, at England's expense.

Scotland is better funded than England, at England's expense.

Wales is at least as well funded as England, at England's expense.

Nasty nasty Westminster.

That's not me saying that things couldn't be done better by the UK (especially in Wales), but the nationalist bullshit is only bullshit.

It's certainly the case that Scotland deserves a lesser share of UK cash, because it's able to afford what other parts of the UK cannot.

In fact, it's Scotland that's robbing Wales, and not England.

If you want Nationalist war, at least be smart enough to pick the right target. If you pick the wrong one you'll find out (as Scotland will soonish) that you're punching yourself in the face.

Tryweryn

Early Objective One funding awarded to deprived Welsh areas diverted to other areas.

Water restrictions in areas that supply other areas with no water restrictions.

Thatcher

Wales does well out of the EU, granted.

Wales and Scotland are not the only areas of the UK who feel unrepresented, that's why I didn't specify them.

And since we've inexplicably let the Tories in, at a greater level than I can remember, in Wales, I didn't feel I could justify the argument that Wales is wholly unrepresented as far as parties go.

I'd support higher taxes, by the way, and more nationalisation. I know it's considered antiquated, but I can never understand why people begrudge paying for hospitals and schools in favour of making footballers multimillionaires (discretionary income etc.)

I think UKIP and SNP seem to have gained by this sense of not being represented, I haven't a clue what's going on in Wales, I know Plaid don't do well for precisely the reasons you mention ie doubts about economic viability. But I can understand the frustration that public services are being cut in areas that rely heavily on them.

So economic policy as a whole can seem to disadvantage some areas more than others, and then we look to the prosperous south, and think of yuppies again...

Wales, for instance - if spending was based on need Wales would be entitled to more, because of the deprivation in Wales.

Edited May 16, 2015 by feral chile

[feral chile]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/katie-hopkins-calls-charlotte-church-9260542#rlabs=2

nice.

As an aside, my daughter attended the same school as Charlotte Church.

Edited May 16, 2015 by feral chile

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Rumours the SNP are going to abstain on fox hunting

So much for exerting a positive influence over the whole UK not just Scotland..

[kaosmark2]

Rumours the SNP are going to abstain on fox hunting

So much for exerting a positive influence over the whole UK not just Scotland..

I'll be shocked if the SNP's voting pattern looks progressive in 5 years time.

[LJS]

Rumours the SNP are going to abstain on fox hunting

So much for exerting a positive influence over the whole UK not just Scotland..

Just to put that in context

Opponents of hunting may appeal to the SNP to take part in the vote, which could tip the balance in their favour. But Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP leader, has said the party’s MPs will vote on matters affecting England only if there are financial implications for Scotland. She has cited the Hunting Act as a no-go area because hunting was banned in Scotland two years earlier than in England.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hunting-ban-set-to-be-repealed-within-12-months-with-early-commons-vote-expected-10254419.html

Traditionally, the SNP have not voted on matters that do not impact on Scotland. They have recently somewhat broadened their definition of what has an impact. e.g. some votes on English matters will have a knock on effect on the Scottish budget. It's pretty hard to argue a case for the return of fox slaughtering having such an impact.

Edit: I found this direct from the SNP

Fox Hunting - Will the SNP vote to repeal the fox hunting act?

The SNP has a long-standing position of not voting on matters that only affect England. The Hunting Act is one such matter that purely affects England and Wales, and so SNP MPs would not vote on this issue. However, SNP MPs will always be a voice for the protection of our environment and wildlife.

The Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act was passed by the Scottish Parliament in February 2002, making Scotland the first part of the UK to ban traditional fox hunting and hare coursing. There are no plans to repeal the Act in Scotland.

http://www.snp.org/node/15739

Edited May 16, 2015 by LJS

[feral chile]

yeah, the UK govt is feckin' horrible, supporting Wales at over twice it's income. Nasty nasty Westminster.

Norhern Ireland is better funded than England, at England's expense.

Scotland is better funded than England, at England's expense.

Wales is at least as well funded as England, at England's expense.

Nasty nasty Westminster.

That's not me saying that things couldn't be done better by the UK (especially in Wales), but the nationalist bullshit is only bullshit.

It's certainly the case that Scotland deserves a lesser share of UK cash, because it's able to afford what other parts of the UK cannot.

In fact, it's Scotland that's robbing Wales, and not England.

If you want Nationalist war, at least be smart enough to pick the right target. If you pick the wrong one you'll find out (as Scotland will soonish) that you're punching yourself in the face.

better funded based on what criteria? Not on need, that's for sure. Wales relies heavily on public spending on one form or another granted. Public services, subsidies, investment, public sector employment - all being cut.

Public spending cuts adversely affect some areas more than others. I'm not claiming this is specifically a nationalist issue, but I can see where the frustration comes from.

I'm looking at it from a attempt to analyse the psychology behind voting patterns, not economic strategy, which I'm not qualified to do.

I have tried to read around the Barnett Formula, and the debates the Welsh Assembly had had around them. And as far as I can tell, it favours Scotland to the detriment of both England and Wales, depending on what you view as the alternative.

[russycarps]

Rumours the SNP are going to abstain on fox hunting

So much for exerting a positive influence over the whole UK not just Scotland..

They only care about scottish people. What made you think they'd start caring about anything other than scottish foxes too?

The awful c**ts.

What's worse, perpetrating a vile act or standing by and doing nothing to prevent it?

Edited May 16, 2015 by russycarps

[kaosmark2]

They only care about scottish people. What made you think they'd start caring about anything other than scottish foxes too?

The awful c**ts.

What's worse, perpetrating a vile act or standing by and doing nothing to prevent it?

Do they care about Scottish people, or do they care about Scottish independence?

[russycarps]

Do they care about Scottish people, or do they care about Scottish independence?

Ha indeed. Spot on.

[LJS]

They only care about scottish people. What made you think they'd start caring about anything other than scottish foxes too?

The awful c**ts.

What's worse, perpetrating a vile act or standing by and doing nothing to prevent it?

You want them to vote on things that have nothing to do with Scotland?

[kaosmark2]

You want them to vote on things that have nothing to do with Scotland?

What I want, and what the political parties in power are and how they use that are completely separate.

[russycarps]

You want them to vote on things that have nothing to do with Scotland?

On matters of life and death yes.

Aren't some things more important than getting more money for scotland?