Glastocam!

[stuartbert two hats]

49 minutes ago, Mark H said:

Big news!! I’m seeing two headliners there this year and I live for nerdy production speculation. 
 

Adding relays to that field together with the rumour of bigger screens would really improve the experience.

They would help with the volume in front of the repeaters too, as they would be able to cut the sound off at the edge of the arena. I love talking about PA tech, but hardly anyone here seems interested.

[bamber]

My attempt at Rhapsody.

It falls short I feel.

An attempt at Rhapsody is better than abject dereliction of duty regarding Rhapsody though.

[blutarsky]

10 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

They would help with the volume in front of the repeaters too, as they would be able to cut the sound off at the edge of the arena. I love talking about PA tech, but hardly anyone here seems interested.

I’m open to being educated about it, as you know! 

[gigpusher]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:24 PM, crazyfool1 said:

Efester alert 🚨… here’s @Funkyfairy!

 

Yay so glad that you are safely on site. Hope you are enjoying your time on the farm already. 

[dotdash79]

Stonebridge bar tent read to go up. 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, blutarsky said:

I’m open to being educated about it, as you know! 

I just assumed you were being polite! 🤣

[Twiggy553]

18 hours ago, Avalon_Fields said:

How close to the festival do they make the site secure? Not that I’ve got any plans to camp in the trees for 2 weeks…

I’ve often wondered how long before the festival starts would you have to dig into your foxhole to hideout undetected

[al_coholic]

Astrolabe and Pilton Palais are up. Pics are out there for those that want spoilers

[Mark H]

12 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

They would help with the volume in front of the repeaters too, as they would be able to cut the sound off at the edge of the arena. I love talking about PA tech, but hardly anyone here seems interested.

Assume this is because with repeaters they don’t have to project the sound out to reach the back of the field? Rather the front array can protect it down into the crowd and the repeaters can ensure those further back can still hear. So louder up front without the bleed to other stages?

[blutarsky]

23 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I just assumed you were being polite! 🤣

I was at first, but I genuinely find it quite interesting. It’s always nice to be able to understand what’s happening in the world around you a bit better. That’s why Wikipedia is a thing, no? 🤓🥸

[blutarsky]

9 minutes ago, al_coholic said:

Astrolabe and Pilton Palais are up. Pics are out there for those that want spoilers

Pop them in the site pics thread! 

 

[Kizzie]

25 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I just assumed you were being polite! 🤣

 

1 minute ago, blutarsky said:

I was at first, but I genuinely find it quite interesting. It’s always nice to be able to understand what’s happening in the world around you a bit better. That’s why Wikipedia is a thing, no? 🤓🥸

I'm quite interested too 😱

[bamber]

2 minutes ago, Mark H said:

Assume this is because with repeaters they don’t have to project the sound out to reach the back of the field? Rather the front array can protect it down into the crowd and the repeaters can ensure those further back can still hear. So louder up front without the bleed to other stage

Those repeaters in the Pyramid field fascinate me. So many decisions. We are not talking about a liner field here. No 'right' choices.

[stuartbert two hats]

9 hours ago, Mark H said:

Assume this is because with repeaters they don’t have to project the sound out to reach the back of the field? Rather the front array can protect it down into the crowd and the repeaters can ensure those further back can still hear. So louder up front without the bleed to other stages?

 

9 hours ago, blutarsky said:

I was at first, but I genuinely find it quite interesting. It’s always nice to be able to understand what’s happening in the world around you a bit better. That’s why Wikipedia is a thing, no? 🤓🥸

 

9 hours ago, Kizzie said:

 

I'm quite interested too 😱

You did ask.   Strap in...

Whilst there's probably something in what @Mark H was saying, I was thinking about using the repeaters to reduce the sound at the arena perimeter. So, you know how headphone noise cancellation works? You record the sound coming in, then invert the waveform, which gets rid of the original sound.

With clever software, you don't need to* record the sound to know what the waveform is going to be at any place in the arena - you can just using timings, since it's the sound from the PA you're looking to destructively interfere with, not any other sound.

I don't have any source for this, but I've become convinced that clever modelling of the interaction between the repeaters explains why you don't hear a snare hit three different times when you're wandering around the Pyramid field. The repeaters are essentially pumping out negative sound* on a massive scale to ensure you hear a clean rendition of the performance in almost any part of the arena.

Although it's not perfect - for instance you can hear the Pyramid up at Acoustic, on the whole sound bleed has been massively reduced over the years.  You used to be able to hear W Holts at The Glade and listen to the Pyramid for the whole walk up to Acoustic.  And if you've noticed that the Pyramid has been louder since 2014, that's because reducing sound bleed between arenas also lowers the off site dB levels.

Having said all this, Other Stage seems to already be doing some clever stuff without repeaters - there used to far more reflection artifacts to be heard bouncing off the market stalls directly opposite the stage.  But it seems like there's only so far you can go. Anyone who was unfortunate enough to be at the back of a packed W Holts field in 2015-2017*** will have heard what happens when destructive interference goes wrong. Not just quiet, but quiet in a weird, inconsistent way, where you'd think the sound engineer was on drugs.  If you've ever wired up one of a pair of stereo speakers backwards, you'll have heard the effect as well. Just really bad sound.

*There may well still be some monitoring going on to deal with wind.

** I might have just invented the term negative sound, but you know what it means, don't you?

*** I think this started in 2015, but was definitely a problem in 2016+2017

Edited June 4, 2022 by stuartbert two hats

[blutarsky]

7 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

 

 

You did ask.   Strap in...

Whilst there's probably something in what @Mark H was saying, I was thinking about using the repeaters to reduce the sound at the arena perimeter. So, you know how headphone noise cancellation works? You record the sound coming in, then invert the waveform, which gets rid of the original sound.

With clever software, you don't need to* record the sound to know what the waveform is going to be at any place in the arena - you can just using timings, since it's the sound from the PA you're looking to destructively interfere with, not any other sound.

I don't have any source for this, but I've become convinced that clever modelling of the interaction between the repeaters explains why you don't hear a snare hit three different times when you're wandering around the Pyramid field. The repeaters are essentially pumping out negative sound* on a massive scale to ensure you hear a clean rendition of the performance in almost any part of the arena.

Although it's not perfect - for instance you can hear the Pyramid up at Acoustic, on the whole sound bleed has been massively reduced over the years.  You used to be able to hear W Holt at The Glade and listen to the Pyramid for the whole walk up to Acoustic.  And if you've noticed that the Pyramid has been louder since 2014, that's because reducing sound bleed between arenas also lowers the off site dB levels.

Having said all this, Other Stage seems to already be doing some clever stuff without repeaters - there used to far more reflection artifacts to be heard bouncing off the market stalls directly opposite the stage.  But it seems like there's only so far you can go. Anyone who was unfortunate enough to be at the back of a packed W Holts field in 2015-2017*** will have heard what happens when destructive interference goes wrong. Not just quiet, but quiet in a weird, inconsistent way, where you'd think the sound engineer was on drugs.  If you've ever wired up one of a pair of stereo speakers backwards, you'll have heard the effect as well. Just really bad sound.

*There may well still be some monitoring going on to deal with wind.

** I might have just invented the term negative sound, but you know what it means, don't you?

*** I think this started in 2015, but was definitely a problem in 2016+2017

I’m going to sound sarcastic, but the diagram was actually really helpful in understanding that post. 

When you say rather than recording noise to cancel sound you can use timings, how would this work? 

[stuartbert two hats]

4 minutes ago, blutarsky said:

I’m going to sound sarcastic, but the diagram was actually really helpful in understanding that post. 

When you say rather than recording noise to cancel sound you can use timings, how would this work? 

Because they know how far one tower is from another and how fast sound moves, they can use that data to decide when the repeater need to play the inverse waveform. It's going be be slightly later than they play the normal sound that people are supposed to hear.

[Losing my hair]

@stuartbert two hats and @blutarsky this is too technical for me to understand but you two may find it interesting

https://martin-audio.com/downloads/casestudies/MA CaseStudy Festivals.pdf

[stuartbert two hats]

15 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

@stuartbert two hats and @blutarsky this is too technical for me to understand but you two may find it interesting

https://martin-audio.com/downloads/casestudies/MA CaseStudy Festivals.pdf

That's my main source! This part in particular caught my imagination

 

[Kizzie]

6 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

That's my main source! This part in particular caught my imagination

 

See he makes it sound so matter of fact, I'm sure it's not.

I think the key is probably in the word 'proprietary',  I find it fascinating for some reason 🤔 

[Losing my hair]

6 minutes ago, Kizzie said:

See he makes it sound so matter of fact, I'm sure it's not.

I think the key is probably in the word 'proprietary',  I find it fascinating for some reason 🤔 

I find it fascinating but hardly understand a word of it. At Bearded Theory last week it was really windy on a couple of days and yet the sound was spot on all over the field whereas years ago it would drift with the wind. Don't ask me how 🤷‍♂️

[Kizzie]

4 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

I find it fascinating but hardly understand a word of it. At Bearded Theory last week it was really windy on a couple of days and yet the sound was spot on all over the field whereas years ago it would drift with the wind. Don't ask me how 🤷‍♂️

Wind cancelling machines too 😮

[Losing my hair]

4 minutes ago, Kizzie said:

Wind cancelling machines too 😮

I know!!

I hope somebody is working on a rain version 😀

[stuartbert two hats]

18 minutes ago, Kizzie said:

See he makes it sound so matter of fact, I'm sure it's not.

I think the key is probably in the word 'proprietary',  I find it fascinating for some reason 🤔 

This is the thing, most of the fancy stuff I know about from reading about Martin Audio's MLA, which is deployed in various configurations at Pyramid, W Holts, JPT, Genosys (and I think one other place I can't remember). But not Other.  Why that is, I do not know.

[Kizzie]

9 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

 But not Other.  Why that is, I do not know.

Lack of discernment 😄

[kalifire]

Bit quiet in here today. The first tipi has appeared in the tipi field!

Plus the Stonebridge flags are ready for the tent.