Football 2015/16

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Take your point about the difference in applying modern standards/norms to something from 27 years ago. The fuckery of the police cordon on the halfway line, with fans running past them using advertising hoardings as stretchers for example. No way that shite happens in a modern world, 30 minutes after the ref ended the game!

without trying to defend anything of that police line, it looked (as well as other thIngs) understandable at the time.

Cos really, the role of the police at footie matches back then wasn't much for 'crowd safety', but to stop the crowd kicking the shit out of each other.

edit: I don't mean that any crowd would have been kicking the shit out of each other, just that police actions tended to have that strongly in mind.

Edited April 26, 2016 by eFestivals

[ThomThomDrum]

Why the cover up if there was nothing wrong done in 1989 by the standards of 1989?

Obviously a recognised fuck up, that could be prosecuted against, was being covered up

 

[eFestivals]

Just now, ThomThomDrum said:

Why the cover up if there was nothing wrong done in 1989 by the standards of 1989?

Obviously a recognised fuck up, that could be prosecuted against, was being covered up

The two aren't necessarily linked, because it was the police who orchestrated the cover-up, not others.

And i'm not suggesting there wasn't stuff that was wrong to 1989 standards.

I'm saying it's not necessarily appropriate (with all things considered) to prosecute today everyone who broke those 1989 standards back in 1989, while it might have been right to prosecute them in 1989.

Everything around a view towards a police cover-up is much the same today as it was back then. The view towards crowd safety is not, and I think that should be a part of what is considered when deciding whether to prosecute now or not.

[Wooderson]

Reading this today is fascinating. Thatcher and her mob. A piece of work.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The police had a duty of care as much back then as they do today,...  They knew that...  They failed...  Simple as that Neil...  

You are defending them, fucking bored of reading shit like this for 27 years...

Yep, and how they tended to see it was that all fans had to be protected from the opposing fans as that was where the greatest safety risk came from.

Which is why, on the day back then, there was that line of coppers across the field, and not directly helping anyone. Even in those chaotic circumstances they felt that role was their first duty.

Back then it looked understandable (wrong, but understandable). Today it looks like madness.

[ThomThomDrum]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

i'm not suggesting there wasn't stuff that was wrong to 1989 standards.

I'm saying it's not necessarily appropriate (with all things considered) to prosecute today everyone who broke those 1989 standards back in 1989, while it might have been right to prosecute them in 1989.

 

If it was right to prosecute them 27 years ago then its even more appropriate that they are prosecuted today 

[Wooderson]

Look at this slimeball.

http://www.channel4.com/news/kelvin-mackenzie-doorstepped-by-channel-4-news

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

It never looked understandable to anyone with half a brain!  Defending the indefensible. 

How would you know? Watching it in nappies, were you?

[TheGayTent]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The police had a duty of care as much back then as they do today,...  They knew that...  They failed...  Simple as that Neil...  

You are defending them, fucking bored of reading shit like this for 27 years...

It's very easy to blame the police and make one individual or a few individuals scapegoats - but what does that achieve? 

The real truth is the whole thing was a giant clusterfuck. A chain of wrong decisions, bad decisions, non decisions and late decisions. Cut a few of them out and the disaster is much reduced or even totally averted. Do you bang up all those people who made mistakes? 

Do you prosecute the local authority environmental health officers who basically left the decision of what safety equipment needed to be provided to St Johns Ambulance? Do you blame St Johns Ambulance for not giving the subject enough attention and not following up with Sheffield Wednesday whether the equipment they specified had been provided prior to the game? 

Should Graham Mackrell be prosecuted because he didn't ensure the capacity of the middle pens to be reduced by 500 as it should have been in line with the Green Guide? 

Do you prosecute the numpty that didn't make the decision to close the entrance to the tunnel under the west stand that led to pens 3 & 4? This would have meant supporters coming in would have gone into pens 1,2,6, or 7 which were relatively empty.

I could go on and on. 

[eFestivals]

 

8 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

It never looked understandable to anyone with half a brain!  Defending the indefensible. 

and yet that line of coppers (mostly) stayed there, each with their own brain.

That wasn't because they were brainless, but because they were considering things in the context of that time where crowd violence could be a major issue, and where in the chaos it probably wasn't clear what exactly was happening anyway.

[TheGayTent]

Look how much room was still available in pens 6 & 7 at almost kick off. 

[luckysalt]

I know there's a big discussion point to have today. But I just have to come in and say, as a lifelong Villa supporter there hasn't been a lot, hell anything to be happy about this season, but hearing that Petrov has made a full recovery and wants to actually play for us full time next season and feels he's able to do so, that is something really special right there. Im so happy for him and it would be a massive plus for us to have him back captaining the side. What a legend.

[Wooderson]

The coppers holding hands so late into the onset of the tragedy is mortifying. We can't trust any statements on what happened from rank and file however as they were all doctored.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

A lot of them testified to having froze and having a lack of command and direction.  Speaking about how working off their own thoughts and thinking wasn't really the done thing.  You did as you was told.

 

You really haven't a clue.

 

Right, so you want to hold them to today's standards of 'think for yourself' (you said "It never looked understandable to anyone with half a brain"), despite admitting that they weren't allowed to at the time.

 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, luckysalt said:

I know there's a big discussion point to have today. But I just have to come in and say, as a lifelong Villa supporter there hasn't been a lot, hell anything to be happy about this season, but hearing that Petrov has made a full recovery and wants to actually play for us full time next season and feels he's able to do so, that is something really special right there. Im so happy for him and it would be a massive plus for us to have him back captaining the side. What a legend.

 

[The Nal]

8 minutes ago, luckysalt said:

I know there's a big discussion point to have today. But I just have to come in and say, as a lifelong Villa supporter there hasn't been a lot, hell anything to be happy about this season, but hearing that Petrov has made a full recovery and wants to actually play for us full time next season and feels he's able to do so, that is something really special right there. Im so happy for him and it would be a massive plus for us to have him back captaining the side. What a legend.

Oh didn't hear that. Great news! Fairy tale stuff there if he comes back and you go up next season.

[TheSilence]

The most important thing that needs to be addressed is the cover up, I feel. The way scousers were scapegoated was vile as well. How can anyone with a shred of dignity allow any headlines like that to be published. 

Cameron also said the campaign for justice was "like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn’t there"

And look at this from BoJo. 

 

Horrible

 

[Wooderson]

18 minutes ago, TheSilence said:

The most important thing that needs to be addressed is the cover up, I feel. The way scousers were scapegoated was vile as well. How can anyone with a shred of dignity allow any headlines like that to be published. 

Cameron also said the campaign for justice was "like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn’t there"

And look at this from BoJo. 

 

Horrible

 

Bojo. Odious dirtbag.

[TheSilence]

12 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Bojo. Odious dirtbag.

"The extreme reaction to Mr Bigley's murder is fed by the fact that he was a Liverpudlian"

Er no- it's fed by the fact he was murdered. 

How someone can make such vile comments and still be in a seat of power utterly disturbs me and genuinely unnerves me  

 

[Wooderson]

BBC still has McKenzie on telly... 

[ThomThomDrum]

1 hour ago, Wooderson said:

Bojo. Odious dirtbag.

But sure isn't he great for a larf? 

In Ireland pricks like him are called cute hoors or cheeky chaps and are voted in in every election. 

No accounting for the idiocy of the voting public 

[lost]

The strange thing is Boris didn't write that article. He was editor but that editorial was written by Simon Heffer. Boris then wouldn't let him admit it as his popularity soared on the back of going to Liverpool to apologise.

[Wooderson]

It's clear from online commentary and feedback from "mates" of mine, that many people will never accept this inquest's findings. 

[GlastoSimon]

1 hour ago, Wooderson said:

It's clear from online commentary and feedback from "mates" of mine, that many people will never accept this inquest's findings. 

Indeed, but just remember those people aren't particularly important, they had an agenda regardless of the findings, Their opinion was informed by those who lied and those who covered it up. 

Oh and by the way...

Something missing

[ThomThomDrum]

7 minutes ago, GlastoSimon said:

 

Oh and by the way...

Something missing

Fucking c**ts. Utter Scum. Unbelievable!