Football 2015/16

[mjsell]

Nope.

My point was that it is better than the Utd squad who finished 7th. 

 

which was the United team that won the league...

 

Minus Fergie and plus Fellaini. I don't remember them losing any players that summer but I might be wrong

[eFestivals]

which was the United team that won the league...

with a different manager, who had them playing waaaay above their natural level.

as proven by how shit they've all been under other managers since.

Minus Fergie and plus Fellaini. I don't remember them losing any players that summer but I might be wrong

exactly!

Minus fergie they were shit. Under Moyes they were shit. Cleverly under Lambert was shit. Cleverly under Martinez was shit and is still shit.

Fergie is the first man in history to polish turds.

[pink_triangle]

I'd say combining the 2 squads, Lloris and Eriksen would be the standout players, but there'd probably be more Liverpool names.

I think both have a couple of standout names, surrounded by relative mediocrity. I think if both transfer listed all their squad, very few would attract the interest of bigger clubs. Either could finish 4th but would need significant changes to maintain it.

The trouble is when liverpool finished 4th it didn't seem to improve the level of player they could recruit. I hope klopps profile may help here.

[mjsell]

with a different manager, who had them playing waaaay above their natural level.

as proven by how shit they've all been under other managers since.

exactly!

Minus fergie they were shit. Under Moyes they were shit. Cleverly under Lambert was shit. Cleverly under Martinez was shit and is still shit.

Fergie is the first man in history to polish turds.

 

So you are saying that the current Liverpool squad is better than the last United title winning squad...

 

 

 

 

I agree with you. Stick to your guns.

[mjsell]

Combined starting 11 on current form for me:

 

Lloris

Clyne Vertognen Alderweirld (any Left Back)

Can Dier

Eriksen Coutinho

Sturridge Kane

 

Literally couldn't pick between any of the 4 left backs. all of equally average quality.

Edited October 6, 2015 by mjsell

[kaosmark2]

Combined starting 11 on current form for me:

 

Lloris

Clyne Vertognen Alderweirld (any Left Back)

Can Dier

Eriksen Coutinho

Sturridge Kane

 

Literally couldn't pick between any of the 4 left backs. all of equally average quality.

I'd probably agree with that, but over a season I'd put Benteke or Son in over Sturridge, not because I think they're better players, but because they'd offer more over the season given contrasting fitness.

[eFestivals]

So you are saying that the current Liverpool squad is better than the last United title winning squad...

No, i'm saying the current Liverpool squad is better than the Utd squad that finsihed 7th.

What's so hard to understand?

[mjsell]

No, i'm saying the current Liverpool squad is better than the Utd squad that finsihed 7th.

What's so hard to understand?

Because, as we have just agreed upon, the squad didn't change. The manager did.

Edited October 6, 2015 by mjsell

[LondonTom]

Hammers, good bunch o' lads.

Depends how you view Big Sam

 

I've had a proper hatred of Liverpool since 2006, especially Gerrard.

[pink_triangle]

The quality of that Liverpool squad is pretty pony - it's not the 4th best for sure. However, I rate Klopp and I reckon he'll get that squad achieving greater than the sum of its parts.

 

Agreed, it must be very exciting for Liverpool fans.  What I like about Klopp is he could wait for a job with more money or more chance of winning trophies, but he seems genuinely interested in the Liverpool challenge.  Every appointment is a gamble, but I think he will do well.

[mjsell]

Agreed, it must be very exciting for Liverpool fans. What I like about Klopp is he could wait for a job with more money or more chance of winning trophies, but he seems genuinely interested in the Liverpool challenge. Every appointment is a gamble, but I think he will do well.

I reckon Klopp had just got really bored without football he's the sort of guy that would. He'd take any job at a half decent team

[mjsell]

.

Edited October 6, 2015 by mjsell

[eFestivals]

Because, as we have just agreed upon, the squad didn't change. The manager did.

 

and the performances did too.

 

Is that not relevant when talking about player's abilities?

Edited October 6, 2015 by eFestivals

[pink_triangle]

I reckon Klopp had just got really bored without football he's the sort of guy that would. He'd take any job at a half decent team

 

I disagree, I think it is the challenge of the Liverpool post that excites him. It wouldn't surprise me if he chose Liverpool ahead of Chelsea if given the option.

[mjsell]

I disagree, I think it is the challenge of the Liverpool post that excites him. It wouldn't surprise me if he chose Liverpool ahead of Chelsea if given the option.

 

Its handy that Liverpool is the sort of team that suits Klopp - and yes he probably does like the challenges that a team like Liverpool present, but I just feel he would have liked to try his hand at a real big hitter given the chance - at the end of the day he is a coach of players, even at Dortmund he wasn't that heavily involved in transfers or the business side of the club. He has proved he can coach above-average players to look excellent, but I think he would like to prove that he can coach world class players and be dominant. I guess that will come for him though

[mjsell]

and the performances did too.

 

Is that not relevant when talking about player's abilities?

 

Did you not just state that Fergie was 'polishing turds'?

 

The ability of the players never really changed, it was the style the team played in and the tactical and mental abilities that Fergie added to the team that won them the title (plus the fact there wasn't much of a challenge that season).

 

Like you said, everyone knew Cleverly was shit, and still is. But he, along with 5 or 6 other average players fitted in to the team - Cleverly has the highest Premier league win percentage at a single club ever.

 

I think Liverpool's current squad ability wise is on a par with that United squad - the same squad that finished 7th. Its just how they were coached and set out that differs. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by mjsell

[eFestivals]

I think Liverpool's current squad ability wise is on a par with that United squad - the same squad that finished 7th. Its just how they were coached and set out that differs. 

which is pretty much what I said in the first place that you've been arguing against.

[st dan]

Klopp's 'challenge' at Dortmund was a much easier task. Although like Liverpool there were in 6th/7th when he took over, he only really had Bayern to overcome. Shalke, Wolfsberg, Leverkusen are all decent teams, but not really top level.

The aim at Liverpool is to challenge for the title. Top 4 aims really aren't good enough for one of the biggest teams in world football. He has to overcome City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea - all of which are spending millions each year to strengthen. They all have a bigger pull in terms of wages and stature when recruiting, so I believe Klopp will really struggle.

Of course he could come in and win a league title in his first few years and become a hero, which I'm sure he is relishing the opportunity to do so, but I just can't see it happening anytime soon.

In say 3 seasons if he hasn't won any silverware and has missed out on top 4, the reputation Klopp has done so well to build will be under threat, and he could quickly go from the most sought after manager in world football, to another has been if he chooses the wrong job.

[eFestivals]

The aim at Liverpool is to challenge for the title. Top 4 aims really aren't good enough for one of the biggest teams in world football.

 

while that's perhaps true as a long-term aim, it would be unrealistic to expect that level of success without building up to it.

 

Getting within the top 4 matters a lot for a club wanting to be at levels above that. It's only really by getting into the top 4 that you can get the players that are good enough to go further still (unless you get lucky, eg Suarez).

[The Nal]

Hasnt Klopp already said a while back that hes looking to manage a team that isnt already established at the top of the league?

[mjsell]

which is pretty much what I said in the first place that you've been arguing against.

 

I was just trying to make the point that the squad didn't change. And therefore when you state Liverpool's squad is better than that United's squad then you are in a way saying it is good enough to win the league given the right manager, coaching and external factors remaining the same from that title winning season for United (which obviously they aren't)    

 

As an Arsenal fan I'm more worried about Liverpool's top 4 potential now than I was last week.

[st dan]

while that's perhaps true as a long-term aim, it would be unrealistic to expect that level of success without building up to it.

Getting within the top 4 matters a lot for a club wanting to be at levels above that. It's only really by getting into the top 4 that you can get the players that are good enough to go further still (unless you get lucky, eg Suarez).

I think the majority of players are solely motivated by money now. If Liverpool gained a top 4 spot at the expense of Chelsea, then I still believe a player would choose Chelsea over Liverpool if both clubs were interested.

No matter who the next Liverpool manager is, they are the 5th choice club to all potential signings if City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea are interested.

Such a tough job that I can't really see being made easier until FSG are gone, and some owners will real money who are willing to spend, come in and buy the club.

[eFestivals]

I was just trying to make the point that the squad didn't change. And therefore when you state Liverpool's squad is better than that United's squad then you are in a way saying it is good enough to win the league given the right manager, coaching and external factors remaining the same from that title winning season for United (which obviously they aren't)  

 

well, nothing is impossible.

 

Few would suggest that Liverpool will get to the top of the league with these players, tho a similar number would have said Chelsea would lose half of their first eight games too.

 

No one is going great guns this season so far (tho Arsenal now look like they've got in stride) so as things stand it's an easy league to win this year, too.

 

(just to be clear, I do not think they'll win it. I don't even think they'll make top 4, tho maybe moaniho is going to gift it to them).

[eFestivals]

I think the majority of players are solely motivated by money now. If Liverpool gained a top 4 spot at the expense of Chelsea, then I still believe a player would choose Chelsea over Liverpool if both clubs were interested.

that would be the London factor tho. London is very popular with those from overseas, anywhere else much less so.

If it came down to what the clubs themselves could offer then playing in front of a bigger crowd would win out over Chelsea.

 

No matter who the next Liverpool manager is, they are the 5th choice club to all potential signings if City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea are interested.

in the sort-term, yes. If they're established top-4 at the expense of one of those others then things change. Success attracts success.

 

Such a tough job that I can't really see being made easier until FSG are gone, and some owners will real money who are willing to spend, come in and buy the club.

While FSG might not be throwing the cash about as much as some others, they've still been pretty damned good. They've averaged over £35M a season with their net player investments.

 

It's not enough to get past the others on the spend amount, but it is enough to get past the others if the circumstances fall your way.

[mjsell]

 

No one is going great guns this season so far (tho Arsenal now look like they've got in stride) so as things stand it's an easy league to win this year, too.

 

(just to be clear, I do not think they'll win it. I don't even think they'll make top 4, tho maybe moaniho is going to gift it to them).

 

I would love it if Chelsea don't make the top 4, but they have to start improving soon, don't they? and despite their awful start they aren't even that far off yet.

 

I honestly think that Liverpool could finish above United. Actually on what I have seen so far this season, other than City and Arsenal top 2, I could see any of Spurs, Liverpool or Everton being a threat to the top 4. Its as good a season as any for them to make it.