Worthy View Review

[DeanoL]

That's bollocks cart-before-horse type reasoning.

Glamping doesn't cause divisions - it shows them up, exposes them and worsens them.

Again you seem to have returned to your favourite concept of it all being about where people sleep at night - as has been stated again and again and again it's about attitude/presumptions not geographical location - but I guess that rather diminishes your argument.

Then you try and diminish those people's point by belittling them and then ignoring the whole point they started with having set up a stupid one to knock down.

Boring. Not helpful.

 

Okay - I get your thesis, we'll move it on to the general point. Obviously short of doing huge demographic surveys we can't know if you're right or wrong and nor can we know what I'm about to say is either. But I find it useful to look at alternative possibilities that we can often be blind to, as we tend to look externally rather than internally.

 

Because different people come to the festival these days. That much is obvious. And they keep to themselves and don't engage with others or the rest of the festival. Sure. But why is that?

 

You can posit it's because they feel themselves superior, and WV and glamping are an expression of that, and you could be right.

 

But you look on this forum over every year and see the sheer amount of bile directed at people who "don't fit in with the festival ethos". Big tents, gazebos, Hunter wellies, chairs at stages, young people, people who watch lots of stuff at the pyramid, 'fake' hippy girls and on and on and on...

 

And I start to think that maybe the problem isn't that they don't want to engage, it's that they're not accepted by the people who claim to believe Glastonbury is all about togetherness because they're not doing it right. Maybe they would talk to more people if you spoke to them, rather than deciding their Hunter wellies means that they're people you wouldn't like.

 

Maybe.

 

I'll offer one piece of annecdotal evidence: girls with glitter in their hair and lines of mud painted on their face. Sure, it's lame, and yes, you'd probably be correct that they're quite middle class. But they've smudged mud on their face. Is there any more obvious express of "I want to belong!" ?

 

Maybe, just maybe, it's not about them not wanting to be involved, it's about us refusing to involve them. And maybe after a few years of that they learn to keep to themselves, watch the bands they enjoy, and find out how to love the festival on their own terms.

 

Maybe if there is a divide, it was caused by us, not them. And it's as much on us as it is them to break it back down again.

[5co77ie]

Wow that's the first I've heard about that - I was camped in pennards and saw the pathways and thought what a good idea  it was but had no idea all that was going on.

 

Thinking about it I remember walking past one of the fireplaces on the way out and being impressed that someone had managed to have a decent fire on pennards!

 

What a great idea.

you haven't read my review then?

[DeanoL]

Almost every positive review I've read of external camping has called the standard camping dirty and theft ridden

 

Except there was more theft and more rubbish in the regular camping than in glamping this year, so that's accurate. I've not seen people claim any moral superiority from that, but it does happen to be true.

[kerplunk]

you haven't read my review then?

 

 

Which one?

[ghostdancer1]

Indistinguishable apart from their freshly showered bodies and blow dried hair.

Glamping creates an unnecessary division it's undeniable. Why do you think there were reports of the people in the tipis getting heckled the year before last?

 

AFAIK, hairdryers aren't included as part of the WV outlay, although even if they are, there's showers and beauty facilities inside the fence too.

 

 

should the showers in the Greenfields be done away with because most people at the festival don't shower?

Edited July 10, 2015 by ghostdancer1

[5co77ie]

Which one?

I only wrote one, Karen wrote the other

 

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/festivals/glastonbury/2015/review-overview.shtml

 

 

This year saw the arrival of the Young Greens camps initiative, a subtle campsite presence that created paths to fires and impromptu gatherings, a great idea and one that needs to keep going.

[frostypaw]

And I start to think that maybe the problem isn't that they don't want to engage, it's that they're not accepted by the people who claim to believe Glastonbury is all about togetherness because they're not doing it right. Maybe they would talk to more people if you spoke to them, rather than deciding their Hunter wellies means that they're people you wouldn't like.

Actually I try talking to everyone - I think you posted this just after me saying I have a bee in my bonnet this time as it's the first year I've had people blank me when trying to strike up conversation and they were both fancy campers, and some very odd behaviour from a third

I'm a warm welcoming chap, I utterly love the festival as a place where I can let that fly free and not have it slapped back in my face - going five days of smiles and laughs and hugs instead of being looked at like I'm as odd as someone trying to talk to people on the tube. That happened this year

Maybe, just maybe, it's not about them not wanting to be involved, it's about us refusing to involve them. And maybe after a few years of that they learn to keep to themselves, watch the bands they enjoy, and find out how to love the festival on their own terms.

 

Maybe if there is a divide, it was caused by us, not them. And it's as much on us as it is them to break it back down again.

I agree with you a huge amount here, that changing of minds is something else I love about the place - would never object to the people with their eyes, ears and hearts open - just to those who shut the doors and windows before it has a chance.

[ghostdancer1]

I agree with you a huge amount here, that changing of minds is something else I love about the place - would never object to the people with their eyes, ears and hearts open - just to those who shut the doors and windows before it has a chance.

 

which seems to be a lot of the anti-WV brigade.

[lucyginger]

Have a look at image 3 and 6 in the link, then at 16 to place them better within Pennards. One entry / exit route in began just where you come out of the Green Futures field into Pennards and cross the dirt path that runs between Pennard Hill Gate and the Railway Line. Image 20 gives a good view too (my tent is the green one immediately on the centre-right of the upper circle).

 

As Neil says, shame that such community spaces have to be built for people when once upon a time many built them themselves, but that's the way its gone.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/26/these-glastonbury-picture_n_7669286.html

Thanks, I'm going to see if I can find my tent!  

 

Those spaces look great, I agree it's a shame they are being planned and built but then there just isn't room to have a bigger communal area now. We had 9 at our camp this year and just enough space to sit with a swedish candle in the middle (thanks, Sawdusty Surfer!). Our neighbours had a similar size space, we couldn't have all fitted together unless it was pre planned. 

 

If I'm lucky enough to get tickets next year and you do the same, I'd be up for helping if I can, or at least coming to visit and sit by the fire  

[5co77ie]

I don't say why i felt it was a good idea and one that needs to keep going - but suffice it to say not only is a bit random, and a fast way to get about, it's also great for those late night campsite dwellers that like to rove around with a  bottle of scrumpy and chat to people in the middle of the night. It's reclaiming the late night campsites that Glastonbury used to have before the distractions of the naughty corner.

 

It's warm, it's easier than trying to make your own fire (and have someone put a tent on it whilst your not around)

 

and it's a great way to meet your neighbours, find about what people have discovered going on elsewhere share a drink and a smoke and chat until the wee hours - old school stylee.

 

you also can (in the case of our area) also find out what percent of the field are having a good time and what that is as a percentage of happiness - which I think peaked on Saturday at around 92%

Edited July 10, 2015 by 5co77ie

[kerplunk]

I only wrote one, Karen wrote the other

 

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/festivals/glastonbury/2015/review-overview.shtml

 

Cheers, no I hadn't seen that one.

[frostypaw]

I don't say why i felt it was a good idea and one that needs to keep going - but suffice it to say not only is a bit random, and a fast way to get about, it's also great for those late night campsite dwellers that like to rove around with a  bottle of scrumpy and chat to people in the middle of the night. It's reclaiming the late night campsites that Glastonbury used to have before the distractions of the naughty corner.

 

It's warm, it's easier than trying to make your own fire (and have someone put a tent on it whilst your not around)

 

and it's a great way to meet your neighbours, find about what people have discovered going on elsewhere share a drink and a smoke and chat until the wee hours - old school stylee.

 

you also can (in the case of our area) also find out what percent of the field are having a good time and what that is as a percentage of happiness - which I think peaked on Saturday at around 92%

I'm so doing everything I can to be involved with this next year. Fountain of youth here we come!

Wtf percentage happiness though?

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Read rest of thread, we're going in circles as people join later and raise the same straw men.

Actually the bits that got my goat this year was the two people who blanked me completely when I started up conversation, both gold wristbands, and the woman who in a very posh accent told me that she knew she didn't have to queue, but she wanted to, gold wristband. Almost every positive review I've read of external camping has called the standard camping dirty and theft ridden and spoken of how they couldn't bear to subject others to the standard experience.

The sample has selected itself and given it's own account to a great extent. I've no issue with where people sleep really, but I do have one with the misconceptions and judgements based upon that.

So what your basing your opinion on is a hnadful of people. Perhaps they ignored you because they felt you were better than them? Perhaps they felt intimidated? Perhaps they simply didn't hear you? Perhaps they were just hanging out their hoop? There's dozens of reasons they might not have engaged with you. One of those reasons is they thought they were better than you yet that's the one you chose to hang onto.

[kerplunk]

Thanks, I'm going to see if I can find my tent!

 

Those spaces look great, I agree it's a shame they are being planned and built but then there just isn't room to have a bigger communal area now. We had 9 at our camp this year and just enough space to sit with a swedish candle in the middle (thanks, Sawdusty Surfer!). Our neighbours had a similar size space, we couldn't have all fitted together unless it was pre planned. 

 

If I'm lucky enough to get tickets next year and you do the same, I'd be up for helping if I can, or at least coming to visit and sit by the fire

 

Spotted my tent!

 

 

I've done my fare share of wood-gathering and fire-lighting  over the years but I don't think it's a shame at all. Fire's are great - especially when someone else bulids them!

Edited July 10, 2015 by kerplunk

[5co77ie]

I'm so doing everything I can to be involved with this next year. Fountain of youth here we come!

Wtf percentage happiness though?

one of the Green Stewards would ask those nearby to give him as a percentage of how happy they were

[frostypaw]

So what your basing your opinion on is a hnadful of people. Perhaps they ignored you because they felt you were better than them? Perhaps they felt intimidated? Perhaps they simply didn't hear you? Perhaps they were just hanging out their hoop? There's dozens of reasons they might not have engaged with you. One of those reasons is they thought they were better than you yet that's the one you chose to hang onto.

No *sigh*

What I said was those particular incidents riled me, never that this was all i was basing things on. I'm not going to engage with this shiffleshuffle argument it's not helping anyone and you'll just keep squirming to find cracks without acknowledging any of the points. This isn't my first year or the first time I've tried talking to folk believe it or not.

[greenchicken]

In the 60s and 70s, market research experts would conduct something called 'dial testing'. People would watch movies, TV shows, commercials with a dial in the hand that they would turn to indicate whether they were happy, unhappy or neutral during the event.

 

I suggest issuing such a dial to all Glastonbury ticketholders to measure their exact happiness levels at all points during the festival to work out whether WV is a good or bad thing.

[elias]

My first Glastonbury was 1985 and we camped by the car back then.

 

We stayed on-site for many years until leaving the festival one year after a draining effort packing up and getting back to the car, I said to my wife 'I'm not sure if I can do this again next year'. The next couple of years we tried 'glamping'. It was fine apart from the walk back each night.

This year we tried going back on-site and were lucky in that we parked up very close to gate A and had an easy time getting the trolley and all the gear onto the site. We will probably be on-site again next year, ticket purchase permitting.

 

Am I a bad person when I'm off-site and a good person when I'm on-site? I like to think I'm friendly and welcoming no matter where I camp.

[frostypaw]

I suggest issuing such a dial to all Glastonbury ticketholders to measure their exact happiness levels at all points during the festival to work out whether WV is a good or bad thing.

How would the data be of any use whatsoever in finding anything out about that?

Or is this just a random snarky thing that sounds like a horrible invasion of people's privacies that you've thrown out there? If people are less happy between 2 and 3 pm what does that tell us?

Am I a bad person when I'm off-site and a good person when I'm on-site? I like to think I'm friendly and welcoming no matter where I camp.

You're whoever you are wherever you camp - the objection hasn't been against where people camp but the prejudices that some have that determine where they camp.

If your decision wasn't made on prejudice that you were of a better demographic than those in main camping then what on earth could you have to feel bad about? Give or take the issues some local landowners have been giving Michael, but that's only recently come to light

Don't let the aggressive-defenders who are trying to turn this into a ridiculous inside/outside fence farce make you feel you're being denigrated here, that's unfair of them.

[greenchicken]

I was joking mate

 

How would the data be of any use whatsoever in finding anything out about that?
 

[5co77ie]

If people are less happy between 2 and 3 pm what does that tell us?

they are over 30 and need a nap, or they have forgotten to have lunch?

[frostypaw]

they are over 30 and need a nap, or they have forgotten to have lunch?

HAH. Though it's often the lunch that does the damage tbh, especially on sunday

 

I was joking mate

*phew* can be hard to tell here, people come out with some strange stuff

[elias]

Don't let the aggressive-defenders who are trying to turn this into a ridiculous inside/outside fence farce make you feel you're being denigrated here, that's unfair of them.

 

Thanks Frosty!

 

I was being a little tongue in cheek. My view would be that the vast majority of off-site campers do not do so because they believe they are of a better demographic (although there may be some), but for more prosaic reasons such as old age/ill health, easier access, slightly more comfort, quieter at night etc. etc.

[5co77ie]

HAH. Though it's often the lunch that does the damage tbh, especially on sunday

- hence the nap option

[5co77ie]

Thanks Frosty!

 

I was being a little tongue in cheek. My view would be that the vast majority of off-site campers do not do so because they believe they are of a better demographic (although there may be some), but for more prosaic reasons such as old age/ill health, easier access, slightly more comfort, quieter at night etc. etc.

it's not because travelling with a decent size quality tent across a field as rapidly as possible so you can get a decent space is a right pain in the arse - best suited to the youthful and the determined