How would you make titp at top festival again?

[devilman]

It's ok, we've done all this before. If T don't want our money, we'll drive past on our way to other festivals. That is happening. FACT. Even the young uns are asking what needs to be done to get it back to what it was. I have suggested nothing new. Not new expenditure. Just the way it used to be. When the pop thang wasn't your cup of tea there always used to be something else. Now there isn't. If businessmen have stripped things down to maximise profit but now are seeing falling sales they have to reinvest or die. It's not rocket science.

[eFestivals]

It's ok, we've done all this before. If T don't want our money, we'll drive past on our way to other festivals. That is happening. FACT. Even the young uns are asking what needs to be done to get it back to what it was. I have suggested nothing new. Not new expenditure. Just the way it used to be. When the pop thang wasn't your cup of tea there always used to be something else. Now there isn't. If businessmen have stripped things down to maximise profit but now are seeing falling sales they have to reinvest or die. It's not rocket science.

 

What it used to be is a festival that today's youngsters don't want. If they wanted indie landfill they'd still be listening to indie landfil and buying indie landfill.

 

So what you're (now) suggesting - by being just what it used to be - is to make it an even less popular festival than you say it is now.

[eFestivals]

When the pop thang wasn't your cup of tea there always used to be something else.

 

only if your thing was indie landfill.

 

I went to (I think) 6 T's. At each and every one on most days there was no act I wanted to see. There were acts I was prepared to go and see, but that's a different thing.

(I'd have never have gone with those line-ups if it wasn't my job).

 

The music world has moved on. Kids have moved on. You'[re stuck where you were, believing everything is exactly the same as it used to be.

 

 

If businessmen have stripped things down to maximise profit but now are seeing falling sales they have to reinvest or die. It's not rocket science.

A completely vacuous argument, that utterly ignores that thing called 'the market'.

You only get sales if you're satisfying the market.

[devilman]

A completely vacuous argument, that utterly ignores that thing called 'the market'.

You only get sales if you're satisfying the market.

 

Yeah, how is T doing? Do you have any answers that aren't indie landfill? I know it's your favourite hot potato but gonna use it where relevant. 

[eFestivals]

Yeah, how is T doing?

about the same as it was when it last had a line-up of mostly indie landfill.

Which is the point. It's popularity had already dropped BEFORE it started having what you regard as shit line-ups.

Just because it's no longer what you want it to be doesn't get to mean it's failing.

BTW, Download fails more than T as an average. Why aren't you also suggesting that books the same stuff as T used to have?

Edited September 10, 2015 by eFestivals

[devilman]

So 2011 and 2015 are the same huh? Bollox and you know it.

 

Download is what Download is. It has all its eggs in one basket and always has. I've seen it way busier than T and also less so. I know one thing for certain next year it will have a far greater attendance than T. People aren't on the Download boards asking what can be done to get it back up to it's former self again. T is fucked, Download isn't (yet).

[eFestivals]

So 2011 and 2015 are the same huh? Bollox and you know it.

I'm lost on what happened which year and i can't be bothered to check back.

But there were a number of years of instant sell-out, and then there wasn't - BEFORE "the line-up went shit".

Popularity was already falling.

 

Download is what Download is. It has all its eggs in one basket and always has.

And T is what T is - a 'pop' festival, delivering what's current to the current crop of youngsters.

[thewayiam]

about the same as it was when it last had a line-up of mostly indie landfill.

Which is the point. It's popularity had already dropped BEFORE it started having what you regard as shit line-ups.

Just because it's no longer what you want it to be doesn't get to mean it's failing.

BTW, Download fails more than T as an average. Why aren't you also suggesting that books the same stuff as T used to have?

 

To be fair Neil, if you look at the NME stage just for an example in 2011 and then look at 2012's NME stage even just on the 1st day, there is a difference. I'm not denying you are right about the shift of popular music but there is a vast difference in what's booked. This doesn't surprise me as after 2011/12 I found R&L to be slipping on the quality of what I went for over the years. The thing is sometimes, we just out grow certain festivals and a new era grows in to them.

 

So 2011 and 2015 are the same huh? Bollox and you know it.

 

Download is what Download is. It has all its eggs in one basket and always has. I've seen it way busier than T and also less so. I know one thing for certain next year it will have a far greater attendance than T. People aren't on the Download boards asking what can be done to get it back up to it's former self again. T is fucked, Download isn't (yet).

 

In fairness to your comment here about people asking Download to go back to what it was?, there is a clear difference here.

 

Download books and always has a rock/metal base as that's what it is, this genre hasn't become something different over the years and tried to book Sam Smith as however popular he is, he doesn't fit the base for where the main stop off festival for that music is. T on the other hand hasn't booked a major amount of what Download does in the past as it wasn't and isn't mainstream/pop for a big part, it doesn't and very rarely ( bar 2010 I think) sell out. I think maybe you don't like what mainstream/pop has become now.

[eFestivals]

To be fair Neil, if you look at the NME stage just for an example in 2011 and then look at 2012's NME stage even just on the 1st day, there is a difference. I'm not denying you are right about the shift of popular music but there is a vast difference in what's booked. This doesn't surprise me as after 2011/12 I found R&L to be slipping on the quality of what I went for over the years. The thing is sometimes, we just out grow certain festivals and a new era grows in to them.

 

Oh, I agree there was a point where there was a sudden and distinct shift in what they were booking - but that was because they'd got stuck in a rut before that rather than staying current.

At around the same point lots of other music biz things found they'd got left behind and had to jump radically to catch up - NME itself included (which might well have a bearing on why the stage with its name did too).

 

As I've kept repeating, I'm not thinking T has done this brilliantly. It was late to the party, and probably had the wrong bloke picking the party tunes because he didn't really know the tunes.

 

I'm making the point tho that it's always been a 'pop' festival - if it changed at any point, that change was when it got stuff in that indie rut rather than when it got out of it.

[eFestivals]

PS: me and devilman have been going round and round this one for years.

 

So if I remember when it comes round, I'll offer myself up to the Geoff interview when they launch next year's, and then we can put this to bed for why T is doing what it's doing.

 

(I'll even contact devilman for him to pose some of the questions).

[thewayiam]

 

Oh, I agree there was a point where there was a sudden and distinct shift in what they were booking - but that was because they'd got stuck in a rut before that rather than staying current.

At around the same point lots of other music biz things found they'd got left behind and had to jump radically to catch up - NME itself included (which might well have a bearing on why the stage with its name did too).

 

As I've kept repeating, I'm not thinking T has done this brilliantly. It was late to the party, and probably had the wrong bloke picking the party tunes because he didn't really know the tunes.

 

I'm making the point tho that it's always been a 'pop' festival - if it changed at any point, that change was when it got stuff in that indie rut rather than when it got out of it.

 

Indeed yes, 2010 and 2011 did sell out instantly from what I remember, and 2011 especially is regarded as a hell of a lineup regardless of personal tastes, it's hard to discount that year.

 

I agree about the pop festival, it used to book more indie types because back then it was the 'in' thing, but I don't think that means it wasn't a pop festival. Afterall, it's not only Jessie J or Rihanna types that have ever been considered pop types.

 

I think if the festival was really doing that badly, 2012 - 15 was enough to maybe call it a day. I think if they were to add some more rock to it nowadays they'd have to just change it to the Scottish Reading as sales just might not be there on a high enough basis. T isn't alone with slow sales, R&L onwards from 2011 took a long period of time to sell compared to when both sites used to sell out previous from word go. 

[devilman]

Excellent. I'd like that. They normally delete my questions though so you may struggle to get answers.

Pre 2012 was a wider variety of acts no matter what the mainstream kiddy pop was I didn't like that either.

After 2012 there is a narrow variety of acts not really deviating from the kiddy pop mainstream, which might well have changed from indie to EDM or whatever but I still think it's pish (mostly).

[eFestivals]

Excellent. I'd like that. They normally delete my questions though so you may struggle to get answers.

these would be asked directly to him, so he'd have to come up with some sort of response. 

[thewayiam]

After 2012 there is a narrow variety of acts not really deviating from the kiddy pop mainstream, which might well have changed from indie to EDM or whatever but I still think it's pish (mostly).

 

Even 2012 was cutting down a bit, Snow Patrol on the Friday topping make it look a weak main stage when really below it was a decent standard. I think you nailed it there, it's changed what it is but you think it's rubbish. I stopped attending R&L after 2012 as I thought lineups suffered although if I'm honest, I booked 2012 in presale and when I was there although it was enjoyable I got a sense of it's not for me, some bands I wanted to see but a lot I could pass on. Too many kids and although it's always been that way, I'm older now than 2010 to appreciate that etc so as much as I thought the lineups suffered and hence didn't attend, I realize the crowd the festival book for.

[Lor1]

10 bands/acts you think t should book next year to shift tickets???

Not who you think will be there but who you want.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Lor1

[Red Day]

PS: me and devilman have been going round and round this one for years.

 

So if I remember when it comes round, I'll offer myself up to the Geoff interview when they launch next year's, and then we can put this to bed for why T is doing what it's doing.

 

(I'll even contact devilman for him to pose some of the questions).

Oi me as well for the questions

[Comfy Bean]

 

I wouldn't deny that T has perhaps got a bit lost with what it's booked in the last few years as it's tried to play catch-up to the new fashions, but that's a problem that other mega-festivals have had difficulties with too. Ultimately I end up concluding that the current 'pop' scene is less festival friendly than at other times but that it'll flip back up again when people playing instruments comes more-back into fashion, i reckon.

 

Aye, decent summary. Many ( including me ) will have moved on, probably for good, but the next batch of young uns will be ready if / when T get their shit together. This whole DJ thing seems better suited for Ibiza etc than a muddy field in Scotland. Instrument types on the stages, dj`s in the tents seemed to work. T, more than any other " major " fest seemed to think that C. Harris, Gueta etc could close the big stages.

Saying that, I had a great time at Disclosure a couple of years back so what do I know   

[Comfy Bean]

PS: me and devilman have been going round and round this one for years.

 

So if I remember when it comes round, I'll offer myself up to the Geoff interview when they launch next year's, and then we can put this to bed for why T is doing what it's doing.

 

(I'll even contact devilman for him to pose some of the questions).

 

Devilman comes across on here as a passionate and frustrated fan of T in the Park. You can feel his " pain ".

 

Fair play to you Neil, this sounds like a good and fair offer 

[Colfaedee]

10 acts for 2016?

In no order,

Royal Blood. No Foos to support next year.
Take That,  mentioned on TFI they were looking at doing festivals.  Ellis would have taken note of this.
Florence,  there’s one of your headliners
Rod Stewart,  playing his own gigs and probably the Glastonbury Sunday afternoon legend next year but he could take The Proclaimers place for a change.
Paul Heaton and Jacqui Abbot:  played a great set in king tuts,  plus they are headliners from the past.
Faithless,   I like Faithless.
Muse,  Another Headliner.
Primal Scream,
Gun,  
And Calvin Harris for the bairns.

And can we have a return of the big huge massive slam tent?
Not the Tesco 4 man thing they’ve been using recently.

[Muppetmark]

10 acts for 2016?

In no order,

Royal Blood. No Foos to support next year.
Take That,  mentioned on TFI they were looking at doing festivals.  Ellis would have taken note of this.
Florence,  there’s one of your headliners
Rod Stewart,  playing his own gigs and probably the Glastonbury Sunday afternoon legend next year but he could take The Proclaimers place for a change.
Paul Heaton and Jacqui Abbot:  played a great set in king tuts,  plus they are headliners from the past.
Faithless,   I like Faithless.
Muse,  Another Headliner.
Primal Scream,
Gun,  
And Calvin Harris for the bairns.

And can we have a return of the big huge massive slam tent?
Not the Tesco 4 man thing they’ve been using recently.

rod stewart isn't doing glasto and would demand at least a sub slot . Take that are doing 2 dates at BST supposedly so maybe they'll play t. Calvin Harris is a straight headliner so muse will probably give it a swerve especially if reading go for an exclusivity. 

[Muddyfields]

I went to my first T in 1999 and my last in 2010 or 2011, can't quite remember exactly.  Balado was an excellent site and the road links were good. I can't comment on the Strathallan site itself, but the roads around there are not suitable for T traffic. So firstly they need to sort out a decent venue with decent transport links.  There were some queues at Balado, but not to the extent of carnage reported at Strathallan.

They need to have a broader range of music like they did years ago, if they want to be seen as a proper music festival rather than just a pop festival. We seen a great mix of stuff over the years Fun Lovin Criminals, Faithless, James Brown, Kraftwerk, Brian Wilson, Seasick Steve, Eddie Grant, Sinead O'Connor plus all the indie bands that were popular in the 2000's James, Coldplay, Travis, Blur, Ash and the likes of Green Day too. And there were people of all ages in the crowd, not just younger festival goers.

Our last T was 2010 or 2011 as I said. It just never had the wow factor to make us go back. I remember wandering around on the Sunday struggling to find someone to watch. Compare that to the earlier years where bands clashing was always a worry. Costs and ticket prices had risen alot too. £20 to park in a muddy field for instance after paying £175 at that time for a ticket. Also there seemed to be a bit more trouble the last year we went, a bit more of a threatening atmosphere creeping in.

 Ellis and co got a reputation of just fleecing the punters for what they could get without putting on an outstanding festival. First year at Strathallan, why should the paying customer who has shelled out alot of money put up with "teething problems". For what they have paid for a ticket, the organisers should have made sure everything ran flawlessly. Not use festival goers as guinea pigs.

So in short they need to;

Get a suitable venue. Leaving Balado was a mistake.

Bring back different types of music to the festival, don't just concentrate on the 16-18year old market

Have decent security. Make it a fun place to be again rather than the nedfest it started to become. (Is that a security issue maybe? Or the market they are targetting?)

Stop fleecing the punters. Make things like parking and bus tickets free.  By all means allocate a designate a number of parking spaces or bus tickets, but don't charge. They've already shelled out hundreds for a ticket, why isn't travel included in it? 

Bring back places like Healthy T. Good food and a decent place to chill out for a rest. Have a bit of space, not just herding everyone into a field.

Friendly helpful staff make the difference. Realised this when we went to the Wickerman Festival. Much smaller but the stewards were cheery and couldn't have been more helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sack truck]

On 4 September 2015 at 7:37 AM, eFestivals said:

 

This makes me laugh.

 

You say that T should have stood still in time, and then accuse it of having gone stale.

 

I'd say it's you that's gone stale, by refusing to move with the musical times.

 

(I seem to have finally got stuck in a musical rut, I'm not condemning you for that part. I'm condemning you for failing to realise that's what's happened with you, and believing that the answer to T's problems is the contradiction you give).

 

T has always been a 'pop festival' (meant in the broadest terms), and not a 'your genres and staying here' festival.

T wasn't always a pop festival IMO. It got more so and more so as time went on. A couple of the best festival sets I've  seen were James brown and Brian Wilson at T. Headliners like rage against the machine and Bowie (albeit he cancelled) I wouldn't have classed as pop. I stopped going as the same headliners started getting regurgitated and djs started appearing on main stages. The age of the crowd seemed to get progressively lower. After a couple of years with no festivals I found glastonbury. How I wish I did when younger!

[Sack truck]

I've just read the other comments afterwards and a lot of what I said has already been covered. Apologies, should've read through first!

[Sack truck]

With regards the time when it used to sell out a few days after the previous one ended. My hazy memory says we had a few really really wet years and by the time the sun shone again a few years later the momentum had gone and wasn't coming back. People were happy to sit and wait and the lineups weren't strong enough to get it sold out

[devilman]

23 hours ago, Sack truck said:

With regards the time when it used to sell out a few days after the previous one ended. My hazy memory says we had a few really really wet years and by the time the sun shone again a few years later the momentum had gone and wasn't coming back. People were happy to sit and wait and the lineups weren't strong enough to get it sold out

Not quite. 2011 sold out quickly and was ace. 2012 had a shitty line up (mostly) and didn't sell out. The fact that it was the worst mud bath ever wouldn't have helped future attendances but it was the line up that killed it. Had I not loyally bought my early bird like I always did in those days I wouldn't have gone. I haven't been since but I am watching developments with interest. If it's back next year I think it could be a classic.