Tylcer, The Creator was refused entry into the UK because of his lyrics

[Matt42]

I think that some people fail to see that many artists often perform as 'characters'

 

It's all a show, I know that some of the stuff can be offensive but are we really taking music and entertainment so seriously that we are banning artists from countries simply because it will upset a very small group of people?

Edited August 27, 2015 by Matt42

[Mash011]

few would disagree.

 

It doesn't mean the homophobe is wanted, tho.

 

This is of course assuming that he's actually homophobic - which I'm not convinced he is. He gets called that because he used some slurs in old lyrics but in a different context. With a little googling here's a quote from him that sums it up:

 

Also, ever since my career started, ive been labeled as a homophobe, simply because of my use of the word faggot. Again, trying to take the power out of something, I WAS NEVER REFERRING TO SOMEONES SEXUAL PREFERENCE WHEN USING THAT WORD. I mean, i’m legit one of the least homophobic guys to walk this earth but, most people just read the surface. 

 

Maybe someone who actually listens to his music could give a better perspective but I haven't seen anything to back up to ridiculousness of banning him from performing here.

[#FreeComTruise]

 

 I don't want this country letting in self-declared homophobes to be treated as heroes.

 

???

[dentalplan]

 

Capleton, so I told by someone connected to his booking.

 

I know Barrington Levy has had visas refused in recent years, and my presumption (tho I'm not sure) is for the same.

 

Fair enough then, if they don't have recorded criminal activity.

 

But as said above, the homophobic thing is kind of weak as it's mostly - if not all - the use of the word 'faggot' which is obviously shitty but it's also in the country's most beloved Christmas song which often goes uncensored on the radio and in shopping centres because it's not seen as homophobic. However I do expect the crux of the issue to be the violence in his lyrics rather than the 'homophobia'.

[lightning1000]

So, a couple fags threw a little hissfit/ Came to Pitchfork with a couple Jada Pinkett signs/And said I was a racist homophobic/ So I grabbed Lucas and filmed us kissing/ Feelings getting caught, it’s off, I’m pissing/You think I give a fuck? I ain’t even stick my dick in yet/(No homo. Too soon.)” .

Hmm, he has a weird way of telling people he's not a homophobe if that's what this verse is about.

He also said something along the lines of tegan and Sarah just need to suck a good dick. As they're lesbians it appears he thinks (or did at the time) that all a gay person needs to make them "normal" is a positive sexual experience with the opposite sex. If he's not a homophobe he should be banned from the country for being a fucking idiot.

[eFestivals]

This is of course assuming that he's actually homophobic

 

Yep, as I made clear I have no idea either way about Tyler. I was talking about the general principle.

I'm a big fan of reggae, that has a serious homophobia issue with some acts. And TBH, a track like that won't necessarily turn me off the track or the artist if I otherwise like the track. I'd be prepared to go and see that artist live.

 

But nothing of that means I don't support the general principle of refusing them UK entry if they're considered to stepped beyond what is acceptable in UK law in regard to words of hate.

 

With regard to Tyler, as I say I don't know his work. But from the article in the first post his manager's words read like he recognises there's unacceptable use of words by Tyler.

Edited August 27, 2015 by eFestivals

[#FreeComTruise]

He also said something along the lines of tegan and Sarah just need to suck a good dick. As they're lesbians it appears he thinks (or did at the time) that all a gay person needs to make them "normal" is a positive sexual experience with the opposite sex.

 

Sounds similar to Eminem's "There's no reason that a man and another man can't elope, but if you feel like I feel, I've got the antidote"

[Chavmeisterdeluxe]

Ha here's me being under the impression he himself was gay. Shows how much attention I pay.

[mrtourette]

It's all a show, I know that some of the stuff can be offensive but are we really taking music and entertainment so seriously that we are banning artists from countries simply because it will upset a very small group of people?

 

What are you suggesting here? That only gay people can be offended by homophobia? And that because gay people are the minority they shouldn't be taken into account? If only a small amount of people are offended by such ideals then that isn't and never should be an excuse to allow it, instead it's a sad indictment of our nation.

 

In general terms I'm happy living in a society that tries to limit people spreading hateful ideals, when the message is that serious then yes we are taking music and entertainment 'that seriously'. No matter how few people are offended.

 

In specific terms I don't have knowledge of this situation, but if he's been openly remorseful and doesn't plan on performing any of the offending tracks then it seems odd that he would face such treatment. Maybe they have only recently become aware of his past opinions, but then it would be unreasonable that they didn't make themselves aware of the remorse shown (trusting that it has and that it isn't just fanboy delusion - saying offensive things about homosexuality and then a few years later admitting he made some errors in the past without being specific doesn't cut it).

Edited August 27, 2015 by mrtourette

[the wonderwhy]

Ha here's me being under the impression he himself was gay. Shows how much attention I pay.

 

You're getting him confused with Frank Ocean you racist! 

[Matt42]

What are you suggesting here? That only gay people can be offended by homophobia? And that because gay people are the minority they shouldn't be taken into account? If only a small amount of people are offended by such ideals then that isn't and never should be an excuse to allow it, it's a sad indictment of our nation.

 

In general terms I'm happy living in a society that tries to limit people spreading hateful ideals, when the message is that serious then yes we are taking music and entertainment 'that seriously'.

 

In specific terms I don't have knowledge of this situation, but if he's been openly remorseful and doesn't plan on performing any of the offending tracks then it seems odd that he would face such treatment. Maybe they have only recently become aware of his past opinions, but then it would be unreasonable that they didn't make themselves aware of the remorse shown (trusting that it has and that it isn't just fanboy delusion - saying offensive things about homosexuality and then a few years later admitting he made some errors in the past doesn't cut it).

 

What i'm suggesting here is that there doesn't seem to be massive uproar about the stuff Tyler says, only a small select few who spend most of their time on the internet trying to drag anyone and everyone down.

Tyler and rap as a whole has content that could be considered homophobic. My point is that is what he is saying really offending people to the degree of having him being banned from countries? 

 

My point is that we can't submit to the views of tiny groups otherwise we can't have anything without someone being upset. Someone might find the content of Nick Cave incredibly offensive, make a petition thats signed by a thousand or so people, is that then enough to warrant him being banned from a country? No because you can't always cater to the minority - it's a fact.

[mrtourette]

What i'm suggesting here is that there doesn't seem to be massive uproar about the stuff Tyler says, only a small select few who spend most of their time on the internet trying to drag anyone and everyone down.

Tyler and rap as a whole has content that could be considered homophobic. My point is that is what he is saying really offending people to the degree of having him being banned from countries? 

 

My point is that we can't submit to the views of tiny groups otherwise we can't have anything without someone being upset. Someone might find the content of Nick Cave incredibly offensive, make a petition thats signed by a thousand or so people, is that then enough to warrant him being banned from a country? No because you can't always cater to the minority - it's a fact.

 

It's got nothing to do with how many are offended, it's to do with the original message, and you can't judge how serious that is by how many complain. Look at what is being said rather than people's reaction to it. 

[tyranicide]

Is no one going to take issue with the fact that according to the thread title his name is Tylcer?

[Amy Lawn]

What i'm suggesting here is that there doesn't seem to be massive uproar about the stuff Tyler says, only a small select few who spend most of their time on the internet trying to drag anyone and everyone down.

Tyler and rap as a whole has content that could be considered homophobic. My point is that is what he is saying really offending people to the degree of having him being banned from countries? 

You're embarrassing yourself.

[mrtourette]

Is no one going to take issue with the fact that according to the thread title his name is Tylcer?

 

Good one.

[dentalplan]

In specific terms I don't have knowledge of this situation, but if he's been openly remorseful and doesn't plan on performing any of the offending tracks then it seems odd that he would face such treatment. Maybe they have only recently become aware of his past opinions, but then it would be unreasonable that they didn't make themselves aware of the remorse shown (trusting that it has and that it isn't just fanboy delusion - saying offensive things about homosexuality and then a few years later admitting he made some errors in the past without being specific doesn't cut it).

 

He's never explicitly shown remorse because he's always said that he wasn't using 'faggot' in a homophobic context. I mean, he's called his fans 'faggots' (aside; also 'crackers') so he's not exactly leading a big homophobic hate mob thing. I do think the shady language used (not just homophobic language but general violence and vulgar sexual violence stuff) was mostly a young guy trying to play up to a sort of 'character' of trying to offend people and not caring who but he's pretty blatantly moved away from all of that in recent years, probably because he's grown up and acquired some more awareness.

 

I can obviously understand that not everyone's gonna see that and I can see why he's brandished as a homophobe (but disagree with it) and stuff, and I may be able to understand the ban if there was a clear precedent, but to suddenly decide on it after dozens of gigs in the UK and a few R+L appearances just seems bizarre as fuck. As I said earlier; it's probably more to do with the violence in his lyrics and they might have just listened to Radicals or something.

 

Just thinking also, Josh Homme once called a crowd member a 'faggot' on stage and then QOTSA headlined last year. Can you imagine if he was refused entry for that?

Edited August 27, 2015 by dentalplan

[Amy Lawn]

Saying that his own use of faggot isn't homophobic is laughable. Great that you've decided the word isn't homophobic, Tyler, but words have a meaning, that's the whole point of them and how they work. Go into a bar and ask for a lager when you actually want a cider, you wont get a cider, you'll get a beer. Faggot has homophobic connotations, what I find even more offensive than his use of it, is him claiming that it's not offensive because he says so. He knows exactly what he's doing when he says it, despite what he says otherwise. He's try to goad a reaction and he's got one. And there's no way he's giving us the whole story, I don't trust him.

PS he's fucking shite.

[rivalschools.price]

Had no intention of seeing him (hadn't actually heard of him to be honest) but the strangest part for me was the fact that it happened at the last minute.

Surely someone knew that there was a danger that this would happen?

His management, the festival organisers, the government themselves, someone surely knew.

To book an act in a high(ish) position knowing that there was a danger that he wouldn't get into the country is bad enough, but to not even know that there is a danger is worse.

As someone pointed out earlier, strange that they let hate preachers into the country if this law really is in place and actioned.

[tyranicide]

Well why would they think there's a danger? He was only just in the country in may, and has been many times before

[rivalschools.price]

Well why would they think there's a danger? He was only just in the country in may, and has been many times before

That's partly my point, why the last minute change, what's different to May?

[eFestivals]

That's partly my point, why the last minute change, what's different to May?

Their knowledge of him, presumably.

If they're not aware of any issues they wouldnt be acting to stop him entering.

[eFestivals]

Isnt the strange thing with this that it took so long for them to ban him? Seems odd to call him out years down the line.

 

isn't it odd that they sometimes catch murderers (say) 20 years after the murder?

 

FFS

[dentalplan]

Saying that his own use of faggot isn't homophobic is laughable. Great that you've decided the word isn't homophobic, Tyler, but words have a meaning, that's the whole point of them and how they work. Go into a bar and ask for a lager when you actually want a cider, you wont get a cider, you'll get a beer. Faggot has homophobic connotations, what I find even more offensive than his use of it, is him claiming that it's not offensive because he says so. He knows exactly what he's doing when he says it, despite what he says otherwise. He's try to goad a reaction and he's got one. And there's no way he's giving us the whole story, I don't trust him.

PS he's fucking shite.

 

I trust you don't believe - just as I don't believe - that Patti Smith should be banned from the country for Rock N Roll Nigger? Sure she'd say it's not racist but words have connotations, lager, cider, reactions, etc.

[eFestivals]

I trust you don't believe - just as I don't believe - that Patti Smith should be banned from the country for Rock N Roll Nigger? Sure she'd say it's not racist but words have connotations, lager, cider, reactions, etc.

I'm far from comfortable with that lyric in today's context.

But the context in which it was written should also be considered, which was 180 degrees different to how the word is considered taboo today.

Otherwise we''re into the realms of re-writing history and banning material from the past as possible references for study of the past.

Your point doesn't stand up to rational consideration.

[the wonderwhy]

isn't it odd that they sometimes catch murderers (say) 20 years after the murder?

 

FFS

 

To be fair I don't know any murderers who have recorded themselves shouting about killing so & so, then put it up on iTunes for millions of people to download. 

 

Although, admittedly, at the same time I don't really expect someone to be sat in Whitehall with an iPod scanning all new releases for content that "is not conducive to the public good".