Tylcer, The Creator was refused entry into the UK because of his lyrics

[Winslow Leach]

 

I'll leave the other stuff to the General Discussion thread because people there have got most of it covered and I don't want to take an admirably on-topic thread off-topic - apologies for that. The noise abatement orders thing was from ages back when you were in favour of music venues being shut down if it meant a few new flats could be built, but dw.

This isn't about not wanting racist and homophobic abuse, it's about badly designed laws being applied in situations where they shouldn't and overreaching into freedom of speech.

 

Freedom of speech isn't some immutable higher power that inheres in the universe. It's a social construct and like any social construct its parameters are set by the normative power structures it exists within. I personally don't see why Tyler the Creator of all people was banned, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be called out on his homophobia and misogyny, or that we can't have a serious discussion about why we're so much quicker to defend homophobia and misogyny under the banner of free speech than other types of hate speech.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Winslow Leach

[eFestivals]

I'm not sinking to this level, so this is me out. Which will no doubt be taken as proof that you've won the argument, so well done Neil, clap clap clap.

 

You're not sinking to being a liar? You'd already sunk that low.

 

You couldn't argue the points of this discussion, and so you posted a lie about another discussion (and also managed to show your limited understanding of other issues too).

 

You couldn't have done a better job of showing how low you are.

[the wonderwhy]

 

 

 

Freedom of speech isn't some immutable higher power that inheres in the universe. It's a social construct and like any social construct its parameters are set by the normative power structures it exists within. I personally don't see why Tyler the Creator of all people was banned, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be called out on his homophobia and misogyny, or that we can't have a serious discussion about why we're so much quicker to defend homophobia and misogyny under the banner of free speech than other types of hate speech.

 

 

Best post of the entire thread. 

[Yellow_Fellow]

Call him out on it sure - 2009 was 6 years ago but it's an argument that's always worth having.

But there's a difference between having a discussion about it, and banning him for it.

[eFestivals]

Call him out on it sure - 2009 was 6 years ago but it's an argument that's always worth having.

But there's a difference between having a discussion about it, and banning him for it.

I murdered someone 6 years ago. Call me out on it if you like, but don't lock me up for it.

And we're back to you thinking that it's OK for people to abuse gays. Because if you think it's wrong, why do you think it should be permitted by society?

So I'm call YOU out on that.

[Yellow_Fellow]

I murdered someone 6 years ago. Call me out on it if you like, but don't lock me up for it.

And we're back to you thinking that it's OK for people to abuse gays. Because if you think it's wrong, why do you think it should be permitted by society?

So I'm call YOU out on that.

I don't believe government should dictate society or personal expression, that's where the disconnect is.

Also Tyler doesn't abuse gays and please stop telling me what I think because you clearly don't know me very well bud.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Yellow_Fellow

[eFestivals]

I don't believe government should dictate society or personal expression, that's where the disconnect is.

is it victimless expression?

Or it is expression designed to increase hatred, and all that comes from that?

 

and please stop telling me what I think because you clearly don't know me very well bud.

How is it me telling you what you think when you've said yourself that people should be free to express hatred about gays?

FFS.

If you're embarrassed by what you have said, the problem is you and not me.

If you're not embarrassed what you have said, the problem is still you and not me.

Oh dear.

Edited September 3, 2015 by eFestivals

[Winslow Leach]

Also Tyler doesn't abuse gays

 

No, he just normalises abuse.

[Yellow_Fellow]

is it victimless expression?

Or it is expression designed to increase hatred, and all that comes from that?

How is it me telling you what you think when you've said yourself that people should be free to express hatred about gays?

FFS.

If you're embarrassed by what you have said, the problem is you and not me.

If you're not embarrassed what you have said, the problem is still you and not me.

Oh dear.

Find me one victim of Tyler's expression. I'll wait.

[Yellow_Fellow]

No, he just normalises abuse.

I'm sure all those genuinely homophobic OF fans out there agree with you

[eFestivals]

Find me one victim of Tyler's expression. I'll wait.

I can find you countless victims of what you've advocated.

Shall we start with Stephen Lawrence, and work from there, or is that going in too much at the deep end?

[rivalschools.price]

Going round and round in circles here.

Is everyone going to keep repeating themselves until we get to 20 pages?

[eFestivals]

Going round and round in circles here.

Is everyone going to keep repeating themselves until we get to 20 pages?

I'm hoping that in a moment I'm going to find out that yellow_fellow has more going on than he's shown so far.

We all live in hope, but they're often dashed.

Edited September 3, 2015 by eFestivals

[justanothername]

Going round and round in circles here.

Is everyone going to keep repeating themselves until we get to 20 pages?

To be fair, this is how every thread in the R&L section goes

Edited September 3, 2015 by justanothername

[Yellow_Fellow]

I can find you countless victims of what you've advocated.

Shall we start with Stephen Lawrence, and work from there, or is that going in too much at the deep end?

No no, let's not abstract. Let's focus on the topic at hand hon. So, again, can you find me a victim of Tyler's "homophobic" lyrics?

[eFestivals]

No no, let's not abstract. Let's focus on the topic at hand hon. So, again, can you find me a victim of Tyler's "homophobic" lyrics?

As I've repeated many times, I don't know Tyler to know how it might specifically apply. I've argued in favour of the principle at work here.

You've argued against that principle, making this a discussion of that principle and not specifically about Tyler.

You've clearly stated....

I don't believe government should dictate society or personal expression

So either regret and withdraw that comment, or have the balls to stand up for what you've advocated - even in light of the facts of the sorts of things it helps cause.

Edited September 3, 2015 by eFestivals

[kaosmark2]

To be fair, this is how every thread in the R&L section goes

Not just this section.

[Yellow_Fellow]

As I've repeated many times, I don't know Tyler to know how it might specifically apply. I've argued in favour of the principle at work here.

Then in the instance of me asking how that happened wrt Tyler, have the balls to admit you have no idea

You've argued against that principle, making this a discussion of that principle and not specifically about Tyler.

And you seem to jump between the two whenever it fits.

So either regret and withdraw that comment, or have the balls to stand up for what you've advocated - even in light of the facts of the sorts of things it helps cause.

Yes, when arguing about the less nuanced case that was being made. If you'd like to challenge my approach to government interventionism then by all means you can PM me, but when the topic of the thread is Tyler, The Creator, forgive me for trying to stay on topic

[eFestivals]

Then in the instance of me asking how that happened wrt Tyler, have the balls to admit you have no idea

And you seem to jump between the two whenever it fits.

I see your issues extend to reading difficulties too.

Yes, when arguing about the less nuanced case that was being made. If you'd like to challenge my approach to government interventionism then by all means you can PM me, but when the topic of the thread is Tyler, The Creator, forgive me for trying to stay on topic

PMSL.

[Yellow_Fellow]

I see your issues extend to reading difficulties too.

Can I get you deported for ableism?

PMSL.

same

[devilman]

Can I get you deported for ableism?

 

 

This. Calling people names in an attempt to stop people calling people names. Ooh the ironing.

[Winslow Leach]

I'm sure all those genuinely homophobic OF fans out there agree with you

 

As would the homophobia apologists. As we've seen.

[Yellow_Fellow]

As would the homophobia apologists. As we've seen.

It's quite ironic that your flagrant name calling doesn't make me feel anything at all