Are Poems The Right Way To Discuss Issues?

[feral chile]

The private sector is trying to extract money from you, and they'll try all sorts of grovelling and bullshit to do so.

A smart person would realise that and would try to not be a sucker to it, rather than embrace it and think the whole world should be like that.

It's not just the private sector, it's used in parenting, education, counselling everywhere that involves social interaction. it's not about assigning blame, but explaining clearly what you would like to see.

which is why I'm undecided in this thread. Someone explaining that something irritates them, and suggesting preferred alternatives, is not being aggressive/bullying/negative.

positive language isn't about avoiding issues, but presenting them in a fair and constructive way.

[eFestivals]

Indeed, It's about respect which is probably why Neil & Russy don't get it.

 

Neil's idea of respect is to add a smiley to the post where he calls you a moron

My idea of respect includes honesty, and not using a million words when ten will do.

You live in a world where you trust £10Bn to fall from the sky and save you from destitution, while I live in a world where I want to know the poor will *really* be looked after by more than empty hopes.

But hey, no differences of opinions are allowed.

 

[feral chile]

My idea of respect includes honesty, and not using a million words when ten will do.

You live in a world where you trust £10Bn to fall from the sky and save you from destitution, while I live in a world where I want to know the poor will *really* be looked after by more than empty hopes.

But hey, no differences of opinions are allowed.

 

yes, so why waste words (and generating several more) by stating what was done wrong and finger pointing, instead of what needs to be done now?

[eFestivals]

in that case, hopefully you'd feed it back and you'd be treated as you'd like. Which is the whole point of diversity.

PMSL :lol - have you every actually tried to get someone like that to actually deal with the issue and not make it take three times as long as it has to?

People who do bollocks-speak have a problem putting it down, and accepting that others think it's bollocks - as is being proven right here and now.

[eFestivals]

You try working in any customer service job and start off with 'you should have'. And see how far you get with the responses.

And then try ' we need to' and see the difference. It's irrelevant what someone's done wrong, it's what they need to do to get it right that's the important thing. And the sub-text that the person at other other end gives a shit.

chicken, or egg?

All that's happening is that people are being trained into expecting all that bollocks. The world worked just as well - and more efficiently - before that stuff existed.

 

[feral chile]

PMSL :lol - have you every actually tried to get someone like that to actually deal with the issue and not make it take three times as long as it has to?

People who do bollocks-speak have a problem putting it down, and accepting that others think it's bollocks - as is being proven right here and now.

they should be trained not to escalate. so they shouldn't point out that this wouldn't have happened if the customer had done things right in the first place, or get involved in arguing whose fault it is - they should be trying to get the customer to help them. And helping the customer to help themselves, including education, to avoid the same thing happening again.

[feral chile]

chicken, or egg?

All that's happening is that people are being trained into expecting all that bollocks. The world worked just as well - and more efficiently - before that stuff existed.

 

before what stuff? Respect?

[eFestivals]

they should be trained not to escalate. so they shouldn't point out that this wouldn't have happened if the customer had done things right in the first place, or get involved in arguing whose fault it is - they should be trying to get the customer to help them. And helping the customer to help themselves, including education, to avoid the same thing happening again.

But if the customer is me, none of that is necessary and all I'm hearing is bollocks.

 

[LJS]

you dont have to talk to someone like a child to respect them, in fact if you did try and say to me "congratulations on your new business" etc I would consider that highly disrespectful.

Dear Mr T8yman

 

So you've decided to set up a business. Well ain't you clever.

Sadly you are not even able to fill out a simple form so quite why you expect to make a success of your business is beyond me.

Should you wish to continue with your folly, have another bash at completing the form, although i woudn't waste my time.

 

Is that better?

[feral chile]

really? how is that disrespectful?

 

which brings up another thing...why do people talk to kids like they're an inferior being? I remember my wife's parents being ever so taken aback by us talking to our kids as if they are young human beings. I think not talking to kids like that shows them respect

Yes, i'd agree, I've always talked to mine as if they were adults, from a very young age. I don't agree with letting cruelty slide, for instance, until they're old enough to understand (I can't remember any of mine ever being cruel, but they were taught to respect our pets from a very young age).

[feral chile]

Dear Mr T8yman

 

So you've decided to set up a business. Well ain't you clever.

Sadly you are not even able to fill out a simple form so quite why you expect to make a success of your business is beyond me.

Should you wish to continue with your folly, have another bash at completing the form, although i woudn't waste my time.

 

Is that better?

precisely, this is how some might interpret a terse 'you've cocked this up' type of letter.

[feral chile]

But if the customer is me, none of that is necessary and all I'm hearing is bollocks.

 

why would you contact them then?

the conversation should be: (from the customer services side)

Greeting

Establish query

Deal with query

Confirm - summarise, educate if necessary.

end conversation

[t8yman]

Dear Mr T8yman

 

So you've decided to set up a business. Well ain't you clever.

Sadly you are not even able to fill out a simple form so quite why you expect to make a success of your business is beyond me.

Should you wish to continue with your folly, have another bash at completing the form, although i woudn't waste my time.

 

Is that better?

reductio ad absurdum

[feral chile]

reductio ad absurdum

no, just elucidating the subtext in a letter detailing what you've got wrong. it's implied criticism and unconstructive. you don't need to know what you've got wrong, you need to know what to get right.

[eFestivals]

why would you contact them then?

the conversation should be: (from the customer services side)

Greeting

Establish query

Deal with query

Confirm - summarise, educate if necessary.

end conversation

perhaps spend a few minutes wandering around your place of work, to discover they're nothing like that?

 

[feral chile]

perhaps spend a few minutes wandering around your place of work, to discover they're nothing like that?

 

I no longer work in a contact centre, but in every one I have worked in, the staff have been sympathetic to the customers.

Not all contact would be through a contact centre though, and if you haven't had customer service training, then most people would ironically, agree with you that positive language is bullshit, since if it's done properly, you won't be aware of it.

The words you use are only a small proportion of 'being positive'. the rest boils down to actually giving a shit.

Edited October 23, 2015 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

The words you use are only a small proportion of 'being positive'. the rest boils down to actually giving a shit.

and usually those sorts of words are the cover for not giving a shit.

In my experience, the more flowery the language from a customer service rep, the less chance there is of them actually picking up and owning the problem until fully resolved.

It's the default position for a place of work I believe you know well.

[feral chile]

and usually those sorts of words are the cover for not giving a shit.

In my experience, the more flowery the language from a customer service rep, the less chance there is of them actually picking up and owning the problem until fully resolved.

It's the default position for a place of work I believe you know well.

positive language isn't flowery. And I'm not saying all positive language is actually positive, it's actually quite annoying when you're at the receiving end of an abused form of it, so if that's been your experience thus far then I sympathise.

And in any complex large business, there are different productivity methods tried.

Google Lean and Pacesetter, for instance. Some don't allow for case ownership. From personal experience, it's far more satisfying to be able to deal fully with something than have to hand off to someone else. it's how I'd want to be dealt with, and how I'd want to deal with a customer.

Edited October 23, 2015 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

positive language isn't flowery. And I'm not saying all positive language is actually positive, it's actually quite annoying when you're at the receiving end of an abused form of it, so if that's been your experience thus far then I sympathise.

And in any complex large business, there are different productivity methods tried.

Google Lean and Pacesetter, for instance. Some don't allow for case ownership. From personal experience, it's far more satisfying to be able to deal fully with something than have to hand off to someone else. it's how I'd want to be dealt with, and how I'd want to deal with a customer.

I'll take your word for it that there's a better version than the version that's used almost everywhere. Get back to me when that better version is being used.

[feral chile]

I'll take your word for it that there's a better version than the version that's used almost everywhere. Get back to me when that better version is being used.

it is literally, about respecting people. And their perspective. which isn't the same thing as agreeing with them.

It's sticking to it that's difficult, and contact centre staff are the face of the company, so will get all the verbals, and are often not in control of what needs to change.

Edited October 23, 2015 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

it is literally, about respecting people. And their perspective.

 

It's literally not.

It takes no account of the other person's perspective but instead invents one, and also tries to force an artificially created (what people like you would like to be a) cultural norm onto them.

It's 100% designed for the benefit of the speaker &/or their employer, and not necessarily anything of the benefit of the customer (tho there can be benefits, I don't exclude that).

[LJS]

 

I have experience in contact centres both on the phone & also training /coaching others. I can only talk from my own experience but I would hope that "the more flowery the language from a customer service rep, the less chance there is of them actually picking up and owning the problem until fully resolved" is not something you would experience from anyone I had (successfully) coached. Part of the trick is to recognise what the customer wants. Some people love what you describe as "flowery" language, others are irritated by it. Needlessly irritating people is no part of good customer service (that's what on-line discussion forums are for) so it's important to be able to recognise the type of person you are talking to (it's not difficult) & tailor your dialogue accordingly.

[feral chile]

I have experience in contact centres both on the phone & also training /coaching others. I can only talk from my own experience but I would hope that "the more flowery the language from a customer service rep, the less chance there is of them actually picking up and owning the problem until fully resolved" is not something you would experience from anyone I had (successfully) coached. Part of the trick is to recognise what the customer wants. Some people love what you describe as "flowery" language, others are irritated by it. Needlessly irritating people is no part of good customer service (that's what on-line discussion forums are for) so it's important to be able to recognise the type of person you are talking to (it's not difficult) & tailor your dialogue accordingly.

yes, spot on,  it depends on the personality of the person and what they're calling for, sub-text a well. Some people need more TLC than others. Some are vulnerable, some are professional, some are scared, have had a major life event, bereavement, family or job change and are emotional, some are angry, etc. etc. You have conversations with people just as you would in real life, but respect is the common denominator.

[feral chile]

It's literally not.

It takes no account of the other person's perspective but instead invents one, and also tries to force an artificially created (what people like you would like to be a) cultural norm onto them.

It's 100% designed for the benefit of the speaker &/or their employer, and not necessarily anything of the benefit of the customer (tho there can be benefits, I don't exclude that).

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.

[t8yman]

i had cause to speak to a customer service rep yesterday, over a very serious failure of a service my company relies on. i used very direct (but polite - even though I was absolutely seething) language, and was listened to and dealt with in direct language, and i took them seriously, and came away from the conversation believing they absolutely understood how much they had let me down. any bullshit thrown in on her part would have wound me up no end, and I wouldnt have believed her position.