Football 16-17

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd all have similar point totals which suggests to me all 3 have been pretty similar all the season. To me it's fairly simple that the one of those 3 who accumulates the most points between now and the end will probably finish in the top 4. I personally can't see Liverpool winning that 3 way league.

It's more than a 3-way fight, it's a 5-way fight for 3 places (with Chelsea a cert).

If I had to take a guess right now, I'd say the three who'll get those places will be City, Arsenal and Liverpool - but I agree that it's a difficult call. Spurs could easily be the team to displace any of those three.

What I can't see tho is Utd getting in there. 

[thetime]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's more than a 3-way fight, it's a 5-way fight for 3 places (with Chelsea a cert).

If I had to take a guess right now, I'd say the three who'll get those places will be City, Arsenal and Liverpool - but I agree that it's a difficult call. Spurs could easily be the team to displace any of those three.

What I can't see tho is Utd getting in there. 

Can't understand your reasoning on Utd not getting there, they are 1 point behind Liverpool with a game in hand. 

Who you are confident of getting there. 

I remember your post a couple of weeks ago, about Utd not being able to go past 2 teams to get top 4. It's not inconceivable that this could happen by Saturday evening. 

I personally think the fixtures have been very kind to Utd, not playing any of the big teams until Europa/fa cup is finished.

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, thetime said:

Can't understand your reasoning on Utd not getting there, they are 1 point behind Liverpool with a game in hand. 

Who you are confident of getting there. 

I remember your post a couple of weeks ago, about Utd not being able to go past 2 teams to get top 4. It's not inconceivable that this could happen by Saturday evening. 

I didn't say they wouldn't perhaps get above any of the teams above them, but staying there is another thing. Utd haven't hit good enough form over any run of games yet to sustain a top 4 place, and there's not any sign of anything better coming, either. They're not scoring enough.

Then again, there was something very fergie about the EFL at the weekend, of Utd playing shit and winning anyway. Perhaps I should shut my gob.

 

[thetime]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I didn't say they wouldn't perhaps get above any of the teams above them, but staying there is another thing. Utd haven't hit good enough form over any run of games yet to sustain a top 4 place, and there's not any sign of anything better coming, either. They're not scoring enough.

Then again, there was something very fergie about the EFL at the weekend, of Utd playing shit and winning anyway. Perhaps I should shut my gob.

 

You may not realise Utd have whittled down a 13 point margin from Liverpool, a near 10 point  margin from arsenal.

I certainly don't see Liverpool or arsenal improving that much to stop the decline of the last few months. 

Whilst Utd may not have improved amazingly, the lack of form from Liverpool and arsenal since Christmas is quite evident. 

 

[eFestivals]

42 minutes ago, thetime said:

You may not realise Utd have whittled down a 13 point margin from Liverpool, a near 10 point  margin from arsenal.

yep, but if we take Nal's word on that, it's because those teams have been shit, and not because Utd have been good.

And while that's meant in jest, there is a big element of that in the mix. It's been about 50/50.

44 minutes ago, thetime said:

I certainly don't see Liverpool or arsenal improving that much to stop the decline of the last few months. 

Whilst Utd may not have improved amazingly, the lack of form from Liverpool and arsenal since Christmas is quite evident. 

well, as any Arsenal fan will tell you, they'll play shit for a few more weeks, and then they'll absolutely storm it. They do it every year.

Liverpool is a bit more iffy cos they can't afford injuries, they just haven't got the cover. Liverpool's drop-off has been a combination of injuries to Phil & Hendo, and Mane having his African holiday. The worrying thing is that I see Hendo as the biggest loss of those three as he's almost-literally the heart-beat of the team, and he was injured for last night (not sure why?) and has that ongoing foot?heel? problem. The only up-side to that is that last night found his best replacement (I hope to fuck that Klopp noticed!).

But if they stay fit I remain confident they'll make it, even if they only just scrape it. Consistency is a problem, but even in that dodgy spell they've been turning it on big style on occasions and I reckon the consistency will get a little better than it's been.

After all, nearly every team has peaks and troughs thru a season. It's as likely that Utd recent better form will drop off again as Liverpool's not picking up a little (and it actually still only needs a little).

[zahidf]

Utd hilariously have been 6th for the last 2 months!

They have bournemouth at home this weekend, while liverpool and aresenal play each other. Unless Utd really screw up, they should be top 4 after sunday.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Utd hilariously have been 6th for the last 2 months!

They have bournemouth at home this weekend, while liverpool and aresenal play each other. Unless Utd really screw up, they should be top 4 after sunday.

yep, that's pretty much a given with Liverpool/Arsenal denying full points all round.

It'll be Utd's games against the top sides that decide where Utd finish, so i guess we're going to see a lot of bus parking. Even so, I don't think they'll finish top 4.

[thetime]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

It'll be Utd's games against the top sides that decide where Utd finish

After all these years we agree on something. 

Arsenal, Chelsea, city and spurs in the last few weeks of the season.

[zahidf]

30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yep, that's pretty much a given with Liverpool/Arsenal denying full points all round.

It'll be Utd's games against the top sides that decide where Utd finish, so i guess we're going to see a lot of bus parking. Even so, I don't think they'll finish top 4.

Maybe, though stuff like losing to bornemouth and losing at home to swansea will cost liverpool. Utd havent lost in the league for the last 12 games or so(though quite a few draws of course)

I think chelsea, spurs and arsenal for top 4 for sure. The final spot i think will be man city.

[WS_Jack_III]

One of the more stranger goals from Diame tonight.

 

Deserved the win, better team overall. Terrible decision by the ref for Brighton's penalty and boy do they get penalties. Think that was their tenth of the season.

 

Big win anyway, lots of tough games on the way for Newcastle still.

[The Nal]

13 hours ago, zahidf said:

 Utd havent lost in the league for the last 12 games or so

16 games actually. 1 loss in 27 in all comps. Best run from all the top 5 leagues in Europe. Looking up in a big way which is why I think Utd will nip ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal. 

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, The Nal said:

16 games actually. 1 loss in 27 in all comps. Best run from all the top 5 leagues in Europe. Looking up in a big way which is why I think Utd will nip ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal. 

not very good at putting the ball in the net, tho... one of the teams in the bottom three has almost scored as many.

[mjsell]

15 hours ago, eFestivals said:

After all, nearly every team has peaks and troughs thru a season. It's as likely that Utd recent better form will drop off again as Liverpool's not picking up a little (and it actually still only needs a little).

I cant see how you are so confident for Liverpool. Their form would have to pick up massively for them to keep a top 4 place (which I'm not saying isn't possible). Since the start of 2017 they have only had 1 good result - against Spurs. In that time period they have lost to Swansea, Hull and Leicester (I get they are shit aginst bottom side), but then when you are drawing and not beating United and Chelsea when you are meant to be great aginst the top 4 teams then you've got problems.

In saying all that, they will probably spank Arsenal on Saturday. Perfect team for them really, the complete opposite of Leicester.

[The Nal]

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

not very good at putting the ball in the net, tho... one of the teams in the bottom three has almost scored as many.

Yep. The season without Zlatan would be very different. Only scored more than 2 goals in a Prem match 5 times which isn't great. 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, mjsell said:

Their form would have to pick up massively for them to keep a top 4 place

their form has - in the words of Nal - been "shit" while Utd have been whoopy-doopy.

And Utd are still behind!

Their form hasn't been as bad as you want to imagine, they've merely dropped points where they shouldn't have done.

Just like another team was doing earlier in the season, and then their form picked up.

But it's impossible for any other team's form to pick up...?

It must have passed you by, but that team who's "form would have to pick up massively" has been beating the teams other teams can't beat - even while they've supposedly been "shit".

[mjsell]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

their form has - in the words of Nal - been "shit" while Utd have been whoopy-doopy.

And Utd are still behind!

This makes absolutely no sense to be laughing about it. Like someone said, United were at 1 stage 13 points behind Liverpool, and now have a game in hand to go 2 points ahead. As an Arsenal fan I'm more concerned about United than Liverpool at this stage (not withstanding this weekend). We will hopefully get out late season push again after our Bayern exit though and be alright (that sentence is so depressing) - City are also catchable still, Spurs should be alright imo. So its 2 from 4.

[The Nal]

22 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Their form hasn't been as bad as you want to imagine, they've merely dropped points where they shouldn't have done.

And got knocked out of two cup competitions. One against a Championship club fighting relegation. The needed a replay against Plymouth Argyle.

And they've gone from 2nd place to 5th. And lost against 2 teams in the relegation zone and drew with another. 

At what point does the form become "bad"? When Klopp admits his job is on the line? 

Their form isn't just bad, they've completely collapsed. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by The Nal

[zahidf]

14 minutes ago, mjsell said:

This makes absolutely no sense to be laughing about it. Like someone said, United were at 1 stage 13 points behind Liverpool, and now have a game in hand to go 2 points ahead. As an Arsenal fan I'm more concerned about United than Liverpool at this stage (not withstanding this weekend). We will hopefully get out late season push again after our Bayern exit though and be alright (that sentence is so depressing) - City are also catchable still, Spurs should be alright imo. So its 2 from 4.

Id say Utd are playing badly but winning. Liverpool so far in 2017 have been pretty terrible. They have goalkeeping, defending and striking options.

I dont think Utd will get top 4, but thats because of spurs, arsenal and city. Not liverpool so much!

[mjsell]

9 minutes ago, The Nal said:

And got knocked out of two cup competitions. One against a Championship club fighting relegation. The needed a replay against Plymouth Argyle.

And they've gone from 2nd place to 5th. And lost against 2 teams in the relegation zone and drew with another. 

At what point does the form become "bad"? When Klopp admits his job is on the line? 

Their form isn't just bad, they've completely collapsed. 

If their 2017 form continues (which I obviously don't think it will) then there would be a real risk of being caught by Everton let alone United.

[eFestivals]

48 minutes ago, mjsell said:

This makes absolutely no sense to be laughing about it. Like someone said, United were at 1 stage 13 points behind Liverpool, and now have a game in hand to go 2 points ahead.

yep - but as i've pointed out, closing that gap has been about 50/50, with Utd picking up and Liverpool having a dip - but a dip where they still twonk the 'top teams'.

It's not the 'shit' that's being claimed of Liverpool, and while their form might not pick up there's no particular reason to be sure it won't just as there's no particular reason to think it will, and likewise with Utd where there's no guarantee their recent improvement will keep on going.

If everything about Liverpool had slumped then saying they won't pick up again would be better founded, but they're proving they're far from the shit that's being claimed of them. Iffy, yes, 'shit', no.

And there's things that can be pointed at for that iffy spell, and reasons to think it's now passed (tho they'll keep on being beaten by teams they shouldn't be beaten by, I'm sure ... but so will other teams).

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, The Nal said:

And got knocked out of two cup competitions. One against a Championship club fighting relegation. The needed a replay against Plymouth Argyle.

they fielded a team of kids.

 

35 minutes ago, The Nal said:

And they've gone from 2nd place to 5th. And lost against 2 teams in the relegation zone and drew with another. 

they've gone from 2nd to 5th, but are still doing better than your own team, and haven't dropped off the teams in the top four (barring Chelsea who are streets ahead of everyone).

 

35 minutes ago, The Nal said:

At what point does the form become "bad"? When Klopp admits his job is on the line? 

When it starts to actually be 'bad' rather than iffy?

If it was the bad form you claim, they'd have lost to all of City, Chelsea, Utd and Spurs during that period, rather than picking up more points against them than other teams are doing.

 

35 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Their form isn't just bad, they've completely collapsed. 

PMSL

They've collapsed so badly that your team couldn't beat them during that 'collapse'???

 

[The Nal]

You think Liverpools form in 2017 has just been "iffy"?

They were top of the table in October. A point ahead of Chelsea and 8 ahead of Utd. 14 games later and they're 14 points behind Chelsea and 1 ahead of Utd who have a game in hand. Theres a very good chance they'll be 6th by the weekend and only 2 points ahead of Everton in 7th. 

2nd to 5th (maybe 6th) in 9 or 10 weeks. No one playing well, the fans going apeshit and the manager talking about his job being under pressure. And they have Arsenal, Burnley, City and Everton as their next 4. 

"Iffy"

Right.  

Edited March 1, 2017 by The Nal

[mjsell]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

If it was the bad form you claim, they'd have lost to all of City, Chelsea, Utd and Spurs during that period, rather than picking up more points against them than other teams are doing.

 

But thats the point. If they are losing to bottom 6 teams every time, and they are supposedly 'going to get top 4 because of the results against the top 6 teams' then draws against Chelsea and United are bad results!

[TheGayTent]

Swap the names of the clubs around and what would some posters on here be saying then....?

Pointless discussion, some people will argue black is white when it comes to their team - whilst others manage a degree of objectivity. 

[pink_triangle]

16 hours ago, eFestivals said:

 

After all, nearly every team has peaks and troughs thru a season. It's as likely that Utd recent better form will drop off again as Liverpool's not picking up a little (and it actually still only needs a little).

That makes peaks and troughs to be a random occurance. I would dispute that and suggest that those likely to be the most consistent in the last 2/3 months in the season are those with the better squads.