Football 16-17

[mjsell]

4 minutes ago, big__phil said:

I have to disagree with him staying on for another season. What does that say about the ambition of the club? He is really struggling to get any performance out of these players at the moment, and I don't see that changing next year. Sure, we might have the odd good result here and there, but that's not good enough, and shouldn't be accepted as such.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you, but working on the basis we finsih outside the top 4, who comes in?

Wenger has lost the players imo so can't stay next year, but that aside he would have been perfectly suited to the situation we will find ourselves in.

[big__phil]

1 minute ago, mjsell said:

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you, but working on the basis we finsih outside the top 4, who comes in?

I don't know, but more worryingly, I doubt the board do either.

There's been plenty of chat about the Dortmund manager, but I can't confess to follow German football enough to say if that would be a good appointment or not.

[mjsell]

Just now, big__phil said:

I don't know, but more worryingly, I doubt the board do either.

There's been plenty of chat about the Dortmund manager, but I can't confess to follow German football enough to say if that would be a good appointment or not.

No I can't claim to know anything about German football either, have only seen them in the CL - where they are brilliant to watch.. Quarter final of the CL with a good chance of making the semis is not to be sniffed at. Am really looking forward to the Dortmund Monaco game, should be goals, goals, goals going on past perfomances.

I guess he is the sort of level we will be aiming for as well. Young manager who might want to test himself in the PL. From a footballing perspective it will be a step down to a worse team for him (without CL football), but money and the pull of PL could be persuasive. Plus I guess the seemingly good attitude towards manager longevity could work in our favour - although the same could have been said about United.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, big__phil said:

He is really struggling to get any performance out of these players at the moment

it's all gone pear shaped since he stopped playing kids and started trusting older players.

[mjsell]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's all gone pear shaped since he stopped playing a proper strong defensive midfielder and started trusting weak supposed ball playing midfielders.

fixed for you.

Bring back Gilberto Silva.

Edited April 11, 2017 by mjsell

[big__phil]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's all gone pear shaped since he stopped playing kids and started trusting older players.

Maybe, maybe not. Bellerin and Iwobi still get plenty of game time, but other than that I'm not sure any of the kids would be up to scratch. Our U21 team is actually not that strong these days, and got relegated a year or two ago. They could go up this season, but it's not brimming with the talent that it used to be.

Many of the fans (myself included) were pleased that we started to sign established players, rather than potential. We've seen far too many young kids not reach their potential, at some point you have to look at the coaching (although the reality is that some just aren't good enough).

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, mjsell said:

fixed for you.

Bring back Gilberto Silva.

which reminds me....

Someone mentioned what I said about Walcott the other day. What I originally said was that he'd be England's most important player, and someone jumped in and told me 'no', that would be Jack Wilshire.

Whatever happened to him, eh?

[JSmurphy]

Arsenal have still got more disappointing results to come this season I think. Remaining fixtures include Leicester, Spurs, United, Stoke away and Everton.

Edited April 11, 2017 by JSmurphy

[Wooderson]

Weekends results put Arsenal under intense pressure last night. Their fans havent helped much either.

Interestingly I see Arsenal Fan TV (huge beneficiaries of this "crisis") is now sponsored by Laddies. One of the loons on there openly asking for Usmanov to "polonium" the Kroenke's tea.

Mad, Ted.

[big__phil]

I loathe Arsenal Fan TV.

[CRW5252]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Its easy to say Wenger should go, but I think change for change sake would be a mistake. Arsenal may have identified the man they want, but have been told he wont be available until the season after next. In which case I think there is an argument for waiting a season and getting the right person.

A 6th place finish would be disappointing for Arsenal, but not particularly out of line for a team with the 4th biggest budget in the league.

If Wenger stays it will be for two years as that is the contract on the table. It's hardly 'change for the sake of it', we clearly need a change of direction. The club is going backwards which is the exact opposite to what we were promised when moving to the Emirates.  

[CRW5252]

8 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Weekends results put Arsenal under intense pressure last night. Their fans havent helped much either.

Interestingly I see Arsenal Fan TV (huge beneficiaries of this "crisis") is now sponsored by Laddies. One of the loons on there openly asking for Usmanov to "polonium" the Kroenke's tea.

Mad, Ted.

Why haven't the fans helped? We have been patient for years, all whilst paying the highest ticket prices in the league. We wouldn't be helping if we kept quiet and just allowed Wenger to think everything is rosy

Edited April 11, 2017 by CRW5252

[big__phil]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

which reminds me....

Someone mentioned what I said about Walcott the other day. What I originally said was that he'd be England's most important player, and someone jumped in and told me 'no', that would be Jack Wilshire.

Whatever happened to him, eh?

Wilshire had a run of 6 man of the match performances out of 7 games he played for England a couple of years back, playing in a deeper role. I personally think that's his best role, but Howe doesn't seem to agree and plays him in the no 10 role. He's not even a guaranteed starter for Bournemouth any more, so god knows what his future holds.

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, big__phil said:

Wilshire had a run of 6 man of the match performances out of 7 games he played for England a couple of years back, ran into a crowd of other players, fell over, and lost the ball.

corrected for you.

[mjsell]

20 minutes ago, big__phil said:

Wilshire had a run of 6 man of the match performances out of 7 games he played for England a couple of years back, playing in a deeper role. I personally think that's his best role, but Howe doesn't seem to agree and plays him in the no 10 role. He's not even a guaranteed starter for Bournemouth any more, so god knows what his future holds.

Playing in a deeper role for england against poor international teams is not the best indicator of him finding his best position.

I still don't think he is a bad player. And amazingly we could have done with him this season after Cazorla was out. I'd still have him over Ramsey or Xhaka any day.

[The Nal]

Wenger was doing better when he wasn't spending any money. He was earning money actually. But hes gone from not spending anything really to 200m ish net in the last 4 season and they're worse. Hes bought some absolutely turkeys too.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Wenger was doing better when he wasn't spending any money. He was earning money actually. But hes gone from not spending anything really to 200m ish net in the last 4 season and they're worse. Hes bought some absolutely turkeys too.

yup,  what I was getting at.

He's obviously better at identifying and developing young talent than he is buying it in.

[Wooderson]

1 hour ago, CRW5252 said:

Why haven't the fans helped? We have been patient for years, all whilst paying the highest ticket prices in the league. We wouldn't be helping if we kept quiet and just allowed Wenger to think everything is rosy

The fans want everyone gone do they not? Manager/backroom/boardroom/significantamount of playing staff.

Not possible. Wenger going to sign a new deal.

[CRW5252]

26 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

The fans want everyone gone do they not? Manager/backroom/boardroom/significantamount of playing staff.

Not possible. Wenger going to sign a new deal.

You didn't really answer my question. The majority don't want everyone gone but the majority definitely want change. Change is certainly possible. I agree that it's likely he will sign a new contract, that's exactly why most fans are frustrated. 

[Wooderson]

10 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

You didn't really answer my question. The majority don't want everyone gone but the majority definitely want change. Change is certainly possible. I agree that it's likely he will sign a new contract, that's exactly why most fans are frustrated. 

Sorry mate I thought my point was clear. I've been watching the game intently a few years at this stage. Rarely if ever do I recall teams having "youre not fit to wear the shirt" being yelled at them by tens of 1000's playing better as a result. Cup semi final in a couple weeks right? Still a great chance at 4th. Cmon. Knuckle down and support the team.

[CRW5252]

25 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Sorry mate I thought my point was clear. I've been watching the game intently a few years at this stage. Rarely if ever do I recall teams having "youre not fit to wear the shirt" being yelled at them by tens of 1000's playing better as a result. Cup semi final in a couple weeks right? Still a great chance at 4th. Cmon. Knuckle down and support the team.

The fans only became toxic when it was evident that the players couldn't be bothered. It might not benefit the team at the time but ultimately it will in the end as it lets the players and the managers know they need to sort themselves out. Us fans have been patient for years and we keep getting told we will be competing at the top but it never shows on the pitch. Saying 'knuckle down and support the team' shows your ignorance to what's happening at Arsenal. This season would be forgivable if it was a one-off but it has been the exact same for over 10 years now. There is only so much times where getting 4th can be considered a success. Clubs must move forwards and progress. Even if we get 4th and win the FA cup (looks very unlikely now) it will still have been our worst season at the Emirates (and that is saying something!) as it will be known as season we watched Spurs pass us by. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by CRW5252

[mjsell]

2 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

The fans only became toxic when it was evident that the players couldn't be bothered. It might not benefit the team at the time but ultimately it will in the end as it lets the players and the managers know they need to sort themselves out. Us fans have been patient for years and we keep getting told we will be competing at the top but it never shows on the pitch. Saying 'knuckle down and support the team' shows your ignorance to whats happening at Arsenal. This season would be forgivable if it was a one-off but it has been the exact same for over 10 years now. There is only so much times where getting 4th can be considered a success. Clubs must move forwards and progress. Even if we get 4th and win the FA cup (looks very unlikely now) it will still have been our worst season at the Emirates (and that is saying something!) as it will be known as season we watched Spurs pass us by. 

And there it is. The Spurs kicker.

I said this a few weeks back, and got shot down a little. The perceived positivity that is rightfully surrounding Spurs at the moment is only worsening the situation with the Arsenal fans that are vehemently and vocally against Wenger and co.

As a set of supporters many Arsenal fans have created this 'finishing above Spurs' facade to still have something to celebrate when we finish the season without much to show for it. Without this how will these fans cope? Someone needs to take the full brunt of the blame for it.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

The fans only became toxic when it was evident that the players couldn't be bothered.

Are Arsenal doing a free mind-reading kit with every ticket...?

Sometimes even the best players play shit - or even, the luck doesn't roll with them - and if those happen a lot, that impacts further into things too.

My bruv (an arsenal fan) dropped in about 20 minutes into last night's game, saw the score and asked how it was going. My words to him was that Arsenal started well-enough, but when Palace scored the whole team visibly deflated and it didn't look like they'd come back to win.

If the players can't be bothered, why do you want Wenger out and not the players?

If you're blaming Wenger for buying the players, how come many of the same players were your heroes a few months ago?

There's obvious lots of problems at Arsenal compared to other years, but they're still a VERY long way from being Chelsea last season.

The biggest single problem by far that i'm seeing is the attitudes of the fans. When you buy your ticket you're not buying a win.

Edited April 11, 2017 by eFestivals

[big__phil]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The biggest single problem by far that i'm seeing is the attitudes of the fans. When you buy your ticket you're not buying a win.

The biggest single problem is having an owner who doesn't give a fuck about sporting success.

The fans pay the most money in Europe for a season ticket, so I think they're perfectly justified to voice their concerns with the way the club is run, both on and off the pitch.

[CRW5252]

30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Are Arsenal doing a free mind-reading kit with every ticket...?

Sometimes even the best players play shit - or even, the luck doesn't role with them - and if those happen a lot, that impacts further into things too.

My bruv (an arsenal fan) dropped in about 20 minutes into last night's game, saw the score and asked how it was going. My words to him was that Arsenal started well-enough, but when Palace scored the whole team visibly deflated and it didn't look like they'd come back to win.

If the players can't be bothered, why do you want Wenger out and not the players?

If you're blaming Wenger for buying the players, how come many of the same players were your heroes a few months ago?

There's obvious lots of problems at Arsenal compared to other years, but they're still a VERY long way from being Chelsea last season.

The biggest single problem bya far that i'm seeing is the attitudes of the fans. When you buy your ticket you're not buying a win.

Looking 'visibly deflated' is exactly the kind of shocking attitude I'm talking about. No fight what so ever. You can't blame that on the fans either as they only turned against the players after the 2nd goal.

I do want some of the players out but ultimately there has been one constant throughout the last few years and that is Wenger.

The players were never 'my heroes'. 

Chelsea last season was a completely different situation and isn't comparable. Chelsea last season was a one-off blip. As I said if this season was a one-off it would be forgivable but the fact is it isn't. It's also worth noting Chelsea actually sacked their manager (who was a legend at the club) during that period and it's fair to say that went pretty well.

If you want to understand why Arsenal fans are so frustrated you have to look at more than just this season. You have to look at the last 10 years where the same mistakes have been consistently repeated and no progress has been made.

So are you suggesting we will win titles if we stop protesting against the club? Because the protests have only come in force in the last couple of years. Who was the 'biggest problem' previous to that? 

Edited April 11, 2017 by CRW5252