Radiohead Headlining 2017

[Oldredeyes]

13 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Brain fart here, what's AFP?

Atoms for Peace

[yaniv297]

16 hours ago, arcade fireman said:

- wishful thinking but I hope the AFP stuff is fairly brief. It's fun stuff but ultimately its one of things delaying Radiohead getting back in the studio (not to mention using up Thom songwriting ideas). 

- I hope Ed does a proper tour of his solo record. I like the idea of him being the George Harrison of the band with hidden solo talents. He's a very versatile musician and already has the best stage presence out of anyone in the band so far more interested about this than anything Thom does.

I don't think AFP uses up Thom's songwriting idea's - seems like a different pool of songs. I mean, Thom made 2 albums between TKOL and AMSP, and he didn't touch Present Tense (which was played live a lot before), Ful Stop, Identikit, Burn the Witch etc (all of those existed). It seems once a song is decided as a Radiohead song, Thom wouldn't use it on AFP, and vice versa. I don't think any solo material would have been made great Radiohead songs, other than 'Cymbal Rush' which is fucking fantastic and a big waste in that regard.

As for Ed, he might have stage presence (I think watching Thom is more entertaining personally) but we have no reason to suspect he can write a decent song. Don't have any hopes for his album, will probably end up forgotten like Phil's album.

[ogriff]

39 minutes ago, yaniv297 said:

I don't think AFP uses up Thom's songwriting idea's - seems like a different pool of songs. I mean, Thom made 2 albums between TKOL and AMSP, and he didn't touch Present Tense (which was played live a lot before), Ful Stop, Identikit, Burn the Witch etc (all of those existed). It seems once a song is decided as a Radiohead song, Thom wouldn't use it on AFP, and vice versa. I don't think any solo material would have been made great Radiohead songs, other than 'Cymbal Rush' which is fucking fantastic and a big waste in that regard.

As for Ed, he might have stage presence (I think watching Thom is more entertaining personally) but we have no reason to suspect he can write a decent song. Don't have any hopes for his album, will probably end up forgotten like Phil's album.

Given how Thom described how the AFP album was written (free form jams then cut up with Nigel into tunes and remodelled into complete tunes) I think you may be quite right

[fowls]

3 hours ago, yaniv297 said:

As for Ed, he might have stage presence (I think watching Thom is more entertaining personally) but we have no reason to suspect he can write a decent song. Don't have any hopes for his album, will probably end up forgotten like Phil's album.

I have quite high hopes.  Ed's thing is big expansive soundscapes with really clever use of effects pedals, so his solo material is bound to be really interesting from a guitar point of view. How that will play into songs is anyone's guess - will he go all Godspeed! You Black Emperor and Explosions in the Sky?

At any rate, I'm really glad he's taking a chance to do more than funny noises in the background of songs.  He's great in Radiohead, but there's only ever a small hint of what he's capable of. I'm very optimistic for the potential - I feel the Harrison comparisons are very much justified.

 

 

(I love Ed, but always thought he had next to no stage presence.  He just stands there and occasionally pulls a face, not exactly charismatic. By far the sharpest dresser of the band though.)

Edited July 10, 2017 by fowls

[majormajormajor]

The OKNOTOK cassette has leaked.

I'm trawling through it now. It's a treasure trove. The Let Down demo almost made me cry. The old True Love Waits tape loop ended up Pull Revolving Doors. And I'm only a few songs in

https://uploadfiles.io/4k3qt

Edited July 11, 2017 by majormajormajor

[Zoo Music Girl]

What the hell is this email I got from Waste though? Why the fuck should I care about someone unboxing it?! Didn't seem very Radiohead to me.

 

 

[majormajormajor]

This tape is ridiculous. For someone who was 14 when OKC came out and went through a solid decade and a half of complete obsession, it's rather emotional to listen to.

There's everything from a trip hop version if climbing up the walls, extended paranoid android organ outros, a polyethylene tease, an early version of nude, a piano demo of motion picture soundtrack, an acoustic demo of let down...

I'm. Enjoying. This. 

[yaniv297]

On 7/10/2017 at 9:12 PM, fowls said:

I have quite high hopes.  Ed's thing is big expansive soundscapes with really clever use of effects pedals, so his solo material is bound to be really interesting from a guitar point of view. How that will play into songs is anyone's guess - will he go all Godspeed! You Black Emperor and Explosions in the Sky?

At any rate, I'm really glad he's taking a chance to do more than funny noises in the background of songs.  He's great in Radiohead, but there's only ever a small hint of what he's capable of. I'm very optimistic for the potential - I feel the Harrison comparisons are very much justified.

I'm curious how it will sound, I just don't expect it to be that great. Also, I'm not sure if ambient soundscapes are really Ed's 'thing' - I think it was just his way to adapt to the new direction the group was taking. The move to the electronic direction was lead by Thom and Jonny, both of whom can play different instruments (or Thom can just sing). Suddenly Ed's guitar was irrelevant and unnecessary, so he adapted by turning into an ambient style guitar players and using lots of pedals. I don't think it's necessarily his 'style' - before Kid A he seemed like quite a normal rock guitar player.

Anyway, it's completely ridiculous to compare the guy who wrote 'Something', 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' and dozens of other brilliant songs, to a guy whose almost 50 and never released a song he wrote on his own. Sorry.

[Rubber Soldier]

5 minutes ago, yaniv297 said:

I'm curious how it will sound, I just don't expect it to be that great. Also, I'm not sure if ambient soundscapes are really Ed's 'thing' - I think it was just his way to adapt to the new direction the group was taking. The move to the electronic direction was lead by Thom and Jonny, both of whom can play different instruments (or Thom can just sing). Suddenly Ed's guitar was irrelevant and unnecessary, so he adapted by turning into an ambient style guitar players and using lots of pedals. I don't think it's necessarily his 'style' - before Kid A he seemed like quite a normal rock guitar player.

Anyway, it's completely ridiculous to compare the guy who wrote 'Something', 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' and dozens of other brilliant songs, to a guy whose almost 50 and never released a song he wrote on his own. Sorry.

I don't think he was actively comparing Ed and George as musicians. More just drawing the parallels of the quiet guitarist in the huge band stepping out from the shadows on his own. 

[arcade fireman]

58 minutes ago, yaniv297 said:

I'm curious how it will sound, I just don't expect it to be that great. Also, I'm not sure if ambient soundscapes are really Ed's 'thing' - I think it was just his way to adapt to the new direction the group was taking. The move to the electronic direction was lead by Thom and Jonny, both of whom can play different instruments (or Thom can just sing). Suddenly Ed's guitar was irrelevant and unnecessary, so he adapted by turning into an ambient style guitar players and using lots of pedals. I don't think it's necessarily his 'style' - before Kid A he seemed like quite a normal rock guitar player.

Anyway, it's completely ridiculous to compare the guy who wrote 'Something', 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' and dozens of other brilliant songs, to a guy whose almost 50 and never released a song he wrote on his own. Sorry.

Yeah you've taken that comparison way too literally. I think Ed has evolved massively as a musician over the last 20 years, and it's precisely the fact he started off from the sounds of it a pretty straight down the line rock fan, then has got into his effects pedals/soundscapes, developed a taste for latin music etc which could make his album really interesting.

No one actually thinks he's going to be anywhere near as good as George, it was just a tongue in cheek hopeful comparison of him stepping out of the shadows. I think your comparisons with Phil (which I am taking literally as I believe it's intended) isn't particularly apposite, Phil hasn't demonstrated anything like the versatility Ed has in the band - I'm pretty confident Ed's stuff will be much better. 

[CHRLY]

I see Thom has done a good job of avoiding all the serious issues surrounding the band playing Tel Aviv. Pretty disappointed with this one. 

[FloorFiller]

30 minutes ago, CHRLY said:

I see Thom has done a good job of avoiding all the serious issues surrounding the band playing Tel Aviv. Pretty disappointed with this one. 

He's given his response and reasons. May not be what you or I want to hear but I can see where he's coming from and why he's sticking with it. The gig's going ahead and people (and by people, I mean Ken Loach, Roger Waters etc) should probably just drop it.

The Gloaming making a reappearance will be enough of a 'fuck you' to the Israeli government anyway. 

[stuartbert two hats]

Listening to the tape now - by jove, Thomas used to have a great set of pipes on him!

[CHRLY]

59 minutes ago, FloorFiller said:

He's given his response and reasons. May not be what you or I want to hear but I can see where he's coming from and why he's sticking with it. The gig's going ahead and people (and by people, I mean Ken Loach, Roger Waters etc) should probably just drop it.

His comments about 'crossing borders' are pretty off. They/him also haven't shown any sign of engaging with the idea of the occupation. He's trivialized cultural boycotts down to a few words and suggested they could be a reason for right-wing politics in the mainstream. Its all a bit head-in-the-sand to me. It's just a shame because the political edge to their songwriting is one of the reasons I love the band, and now I'm finding myself strongly disagreeing with them. 

I think Ken might have some conflicting interests here... I, Daniel Blake seems to be showing in Israel. I can't speak for him but I don't think it's something that should just be dropped, it's way more important than that. 

59 minutes ago, FloorFiller said:

The Gloaming making a reappearance will be enough of a 'fuck you' to the Israeli government anyway. 

This is something I can get on board with  

Edited July 12, 2017 by CHRLY

[CHRLY]

23 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Listening to the tape now - by jove, Thomas used to have a great set of pipes on him!

I wanna hear this but don't have access to a computer for the next few weeks and my phone wouldn't accept that link above  

[majormajormajor]

How good is Motion Picture Soundtrack? And the demo of Let Down? 

[arcade fireman]

53 minutes ago, CHRLY said:

His comments about 'crossing borders' are pretty off. They/him also haven't shown any sign of engaging with the idea of the occupation. He's trivialized cultural boycotts down to a few words and suggested they could be a reason for right-wing politics in the mainstream. Its all a bit head-in-the-sand to me. It's just a shame because the political edge to their songwriting is one of the reasons I love the band, and now I'm finding myself strongly disagreeing with them. 

I think Ken might have some conflicting interests here... I, Daniel Blake seems to be showing in Israel. I can't speak for him but I don't think it's something that should just be dropped, it's way more important than that. 

The idea that cultural boycotts will do any good in this situation is questionable at best. Of course we hear South Africa being brought up all the time, but it's a complete rewrite of history to suggest the cultural boycott played a large role in the dismantling of apartheid. The economic sanctions had a much, much bigger role.

What are the prospects of economic sanctions by the West against Israel like what happened against South Africa? Why are there no calls to boycott the US who give several billion a year in foreign aid to Israel (not even taking into account everything else they do around the world)?

I don't see any problem with people choosing to boycott Israel. I personally wouldn't take a holiday there. If I was a solo artist I probably wouldn't play there - I probably wouldn't say it was part of a boycott, just it's not somewhere I could be that comfortable playing. Would I play  there however if I was in a band, the guitarist was married to an Israeli and had children who were half Israeli and Israeli fans had a huge role in the bands rly success? Probably I would.

Its not the boycott that's the problem, it's the self righteousness of some (not necessarily you) and the insistence that BDS is the only answer which really grates. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

I was trying to resist getting drawn back into this, but  BDS is also economic - if not largely economic - and the PACBI academic and cultural boycott is just one (relatively minor, if sometimes more newsworthy when celebrities are involved) facet of it.

I don't think anyone thinks it's the only answer, but it's also worth noting that the folk currently under occupation are in the position where non-violent forms of resistance are ignored, belittled or given the finger.

[arcade fireman]

20 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I was trying to resist getting drawn back into this, but  BDS is also economic - if not largely economic - and the PACBI academic and cultural boycott is just one (relatively minor, if sometimes more newsworthy when celebrities are involved) facet of it.

I don't think anyone thinks it's the only answer, but it's also worth noting that the folk currently under occupation are in the position where non-violent forms of resistance are ignored, belittled or given the finger.

I'm aware of the BDS economic sanctions too. And I think it's a legitimate course of action and indeed economic sanctions may have a much bigger impact, but it will need scores of Western governments to turn against Israel and apply wide reaching sanctions such as were applied against South Africa. The prospect of this happening one day? Who knows. The prospect of this happening in the next 5 years? Almost zero. The current economic sanctions are barely making a dent.

And so the cultural boycotts will do very little without the prospect of economic sanctions. They will do nothing to force the hand of the Israeli government. Maybe in 2037 we will be in a situation where there is the prospect of more widespread universal action against the actions of the Israeli government and so the cultural boycotts would be a practical step.

But in 2017 the act of boycotting Israel is far more a symbolic course of action rather than a practical course of action. And as such is fair to be weighed up against every other consideration. It's also fair to say when it comes to Israel, Radiohead have a lot more weighing up to do than most other big rock bands. There is certainly a sense here that there is no weighing up to do, that not playing Israel is the only correct course of action and that any other opinions are traitorous, disgraceful, supporting Netenyahu etc. 

This whole thing from Waters and Loach about "setting up a dialogue" was disingineous at best. There was no dialogue that could have been set up that would have resulted in anything other than condemnation of the Tel Aviv gig.

Edited July 12, 2017 by arcade fireman

[CaledonianGonzo]

I think we'll need to agree to disagree on the value of symbolic action, particularly in this instance.  You’re not going to get a domino effect if no one tries to topple the first few dominoes.

But, again, no one would be particularly giving Radiohead a hard time over it if Thom’s statements on the matter hadn’t been so tone deaf and piecemeal – and if it hadn’t shown that whatever radical conscience people thought that Radiohead possessed was pretty much a sham.

[arcade fireman]

10 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I think we'll need to agree to disagree on the value of symbolic action, particularly in this instance.  You’re not going to get a domino effect if no one tries to topple the first few dominoes.

But, again, no one would be particularly giving Radiohead a hard time over it if Thom’s statements on the matter hadn’t been so tone deaf and piecemeal – and if it hadn’t shown that whatever radical conscience people thought that Radiohead possessed was pretty much a sham.

Fair enough, we probably agree on more of the wider issues either way. But it's just a shame that the tone applied from the BDS movement wasn't "agree to disagree". Its been anything but. 

This idea that you do (or refuse to do) one symbolic action and this invalidates everything you do as a sham is something I don't subscribe to. I don't think Radiohead had that good radical credentials even before this - Thom sings and talks about the evils of capitalism whilst regularly getting papped at high society fashion show events in the US for example - but I don't think refusing to play a gig as a symbolic gesture changes that much either way. 

[CHRLY]

@arcade fireman As the above poster touched on, I'm specifically criticisng Thom's response here rather than the initial decision to play the gig (even though I oppose that too).

It's comments like "extraordinary waste of energy" & "think how Jonny must feel" that come across as extremely ignorant and careless. It's not about the boycott specifically, it's that he doesn't actually seem to care for the things the boycott is trying to promote. 

[arcade fireman]

54 minutes ago, CHRLY said:

@arcade fireman As the above poster touched on, I'm specifically criticisng Thom's response here rather than the initial decision to play the gig (even though I oppose that too).

It's comments like "extraordinary waste of energy" & "think how Jonny must feel" that come across as extremely ignorant and careless. It's not about the boycott specifically, it's that he doesn't actually seem to care for the things the boycott is trying to promote. 

It wasn't the best response, but really I can see why he'd be so pissed off with the incessant haranguing. If you don't like the idea of someone playing somewhere, express your disapproval and then move on. This patently isn't the approach the BDS movement have taken.

The only exceptions would be where clear and tangible harm can be demonstrated by a band playing somewhere and/or clear benefit of them not playing there. Then an ongoing campaign may be justified. This hasn't been demonstrated and isn't backed up by the historical evidence. To be fair Caledonian Gonzo has acknowledged the largely symbolic nature of the boycott that's being requested. And bringing up Jonny (though not done in the best way) is relevant. His wife is Israeli. His children have a whole side of their family that is Israeli. Not to mention Colin's in laws etc. It is very much a relevant factor in the decision that the band will have weighed up and can't just be dismissed. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Again, I disagree with the idea of protest as a one off / one time thing that happens in a moment and then fades away.  Change is more likely to occur after prolonged and repeated pressure.l and a boycott that lasts a day isn't a boycott.

I'd also say the protest push back against Radiohead has largely been in the form of symbols and rhetoric.  If symbols are so ineffectual then why's anyone getting worked up about a few flags at their gigs?  If they're so convinced of their position then a few critical CiF articles should be water off a duck's back.

Also, the repeated exclusion of the Palestinians from any of the mainstream debate on this and in particular from Thom's responses is particularly telling.  Again, symbols matter - it wasn't just those of us waving flags that he was giving the finger to.

 

[yaniv297]

I think this boycott seems to be overstated in every discussion I've seen about it. Radiohead aren't breaking any major boycott - a pretty failed attempt at boycott would be more accurate.

Just this summer we have Guns N Roses, Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, Nick Cave, Aerosmith, Pet Shop Boys, Pixies, Rod Stewart and Brian Adams are all playing in Israel.

In recent years we've had McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Paul Simon, Elton John, Metallica, Brian Wilson, Pixies, Soundgarden, Depeche Mode, and just about every rock legend play here. Major pop stars like Madonna (who actually covered herself in Israel's flag), Justin Timberlake, Avicci, Lady Gaga and Sia all played here too. Interesting fact, Paul McCartney actually had explicit death threats if he came to play here. He came anyway and the show was fucking awesome.

Also loads of indie bands come over - Tame Impala, The Antlers, Alt-J, Granddaddy, Sun Kil Moon, Mac Demarco, Slowdive, Real Estate, Freddie Gibbs, Ariel Pink, Perfume Genius and many more have played Israel recently. 

Mackelmore and Ryan Lewis just canceled their gig here. Did the BDS pressure got to them? No, actually they cancelled because of poor ticket sales. The truth is, Israelis simply can't afford all the international shows coming our way - that kinda shows you just how much impact the BDS movement have here.

The only artist I ever remember cancelling because of BDS is Elvis Costello - and that was almost a decade ago. Since then it was failure after failure for BDS, almost amusingly ineffective (they did get a few nice words from Jesse Hughes though).

So many technological companies, including the biggest in the world, have headquarters in Israel, and almost every western government being friends with Israel. Like it or not, Israel is in every way part of the western world - culture, art, technology, research, science, politics, tourism. It makes sense for western bands to play there and almost everybody's doing it. I'm not sure why are Radiohead specifically getting so much flack - but this whole thing will be forgotten a week after the show, just like no one really cares McCartney or the Stones played here.

Edited July 12, 2017 by yaniv297