US Presidential Election 2016

[Lad]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

me repeating that the yanks obsession with guns has tragic consequences brings no lives back.

While you blaming Obama for what he's been stopped from doing by the raving right reveals where your own sympathies are.

So stop with the TUSC lie now, eh? You've been found out by your own posts.

You've posted some bible code gibberish.Not for the first time. 

 

Yer I've tried to pull the wool over your eyes about my vote.Talk about tin foil.Who'd  be arsed?

As you've avoided the point about the violence and who should be more scared for their life chances I didn't "blame"Obama . I was saying that things are very bad in his own backyard and as president he hasn't improved things.Are you saying that circumstances have improved?

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, Lad said:

You've posted some bible code gibberish.Not for the first time. 

 

Yer I've tried to pull the wool over your eyes about my vote.Talk about tin foil.Who'd  be arsed?

As you've avoided the point about the violence and who should be more scared for their life chances I didn't "blame"Obama . I was saying that things are very bad in his own backyard and as president he hasn't improved things.Are you saying that circumstances have improved?

What do you think would be a better alternative?

[Lad]

13 minutes ago, feral chile said:

What do you think would be a better alternative?

To what?

[feral chile]

3 minutes ago, Lad said:

To what?

to Obama's efforts.

I don't mean that in a hostile way, I don't know myself, I just wondered what your opinion was.

Edited November 10, 2016 by feral chile

[michael eavis' beard]

25 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Not really, I'm not that fond of America full stop, my racism just takes a different form.

or liberalism, if you want to term it that.

ask yourself why these 2 candidates were considered the best choices.

Then ask yourself if an anti war campaigner would be considered electable.

Someone not prepared to kill. Or drop bombs.

Not many people did think they were the best choices.  Only 41% of the people who voted strongly favoured the candidate they voted for.  They were the end products of 2 massively flawed primary processes.

[Lad]

Just now, feral chile said:

to Obama's efforts.

I'm not familiar with the efforts he's made.Whatever he's done,or hasn't, doesn't seem to have improved the lifes in those communities. I'd guess that decent education  combined with realistic job opportunities would help there as anywhere.There seems to be a bad law and order and police relationships with the community.I don't know enough to put forward a plan for urban regeneration in Chicago. Unfortunately the president is at a loss as well.

 

 

 

 

 

[feral chile]

2 minutes ago, Lad said:

I'm not familiar with the efforts he's made.Whatever he's done,or hasn't, doesn't seem to have improved the lifes in those communities. I'd guess that decent education  combined with realistic job opportunities would help there as anywhere.There seems to be a bad law and order and police relationships with the community.I don't know enough to put forward a plan for urban regeneration in Chicago. Unfortunately the president is at a loss as well.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't say I know enough about the situation myself, either.

I agree that tackling poverty and inequality should be a priority, as well as establishing good community relations.

[bunique]

10 minutes ago, Lad said:

I'm not familiar with the efforts he's made.Whatever he's done,or hasn't, doesn't seem to have improved the lifes in those communities. I'd guess that decent education  combined with realistic job opportunities would help there as anywhere.There seems to be a bad law and order and police relationships with the community.I don't know enough to put forward a plan for urban regeneration in Chicago. Unfortunately the president is at a loss as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Could it be said that Obama holding the presidency has empowered black communities to speak out about relationships with the police that have been pretty awful for decades? I haven't seen the stats but have police shootings of black civilians increased or just been better reported?

[zahidf]

Scary thread: Need to resist Trump quickly as they will act quickly to impose their viewpoint on society

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, feral chile said:

ask yourself why these 2 candidates were considered the best choices.

Clinton was considered the best by her party bigwigs simply as a consequence of everything that's gone before. Exactly as she campaigned on, she was the most qualified for the job. What they forgot was that 'qualified' isn't the same as 'suitable'.

Trump never was considered the best choice by the party bigwigs. He became the candidate in spite of them not wanting him. It was, if you like, the republican party members rebelling against the controlling party clique, same as with Corbyn.

(unfortunately for Corbyn's electoral chances, that's about where the similarity ends. he becomes more like the hated Clinton after that starting comparison)

Circumstances, that's all. It's just how the cookie crumbled.

Edited November 10, 2016 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, Lad said:

You've posted some bible code gibberish.Not for the first time. 

 

Yer I've tried to pull the wool over your eyes about my vote.Talk about tin foil.Who'd  be arsed?

As you've avoided the point about the violence and who should be more scared for their life chances I didn't "blame"Obama . I was saying that things are very bad in his own backyard and as president he hasn't improved things.Are you saying that circumstances have improved?

No, you blamed him for not improving circumstances. :rolleyes:

 

 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Scary thread: Need to resist Trump quickly as they will act quickly to impose their viewpoint on society

 

talking of scary, you appear to be scared of Azleila's twitter. Surely you've not missed it, being such a twitter fan?

[zahidf]

Just now, eFestivals said:

talking of scary, you appear to be scared of Azleila's twitter. Surely you've not missed it, being such a twitter fan?

? She is a professional troll. US equivalent of Katie Hopkins. Why would i care about her views?

[eFestivals]

42 minutes ago, Lad said:

I'm not familiar with the efforts he's made.Whatever he's done,or hasn't, doesn't seem to have improved the lifes in those communities. I'd guess that decent education  combined with realistic job opportunities would help there as anywhere.There seems to be a bad law and order and police relationships with the community.I don't know enough to put forward a plan for urban regeneration in Chicago. Unfortunately the president is at a loss as well.

 

lead poisoning.

Go google.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

? She is a professional troll. US equivalent of Katie Hopkins. Why would i care about her views?

you wouldn't care for her black views, would you? You're not interested in evidence and facts that contradict the bollocks you post.

How's that condemning list of actors coming on BTW, or are you OK with misogyny and sexism on your higher moral ground?

 

[Lad]

35 minutes ago, bunique said:

Could it be said that Obama holding the presidency has empowered black communities to speak out about relationships with the police that have been pretty awful for decades? I haven't seen the stats but have police shootings of black civilians increased or just been better reported?

Anybody killed by the police should have the same resort for justice as anyone.The police should be as accountable  anyone.With social media these killings are more widely known.

Still doesn't halt the continuing bloodshed.I've read reports that the police are less likely to get involved when shootings are phoned in.Thats like a vicious circle where the people who need help don't receive it.Suppose it's easy to pontificate about  gettting into firefights if you are never near  them.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Lad

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you wouldn't care for her black views, would you? You're not interested in evidence and facts that contradict the bollocks you post.

How's that condemning list of actors coming on BTW, or are you OK with misogyny and sexism on your higher moral ground?

 

what on earth are you talking about?

Azelia banks is a trolling 21 year old. Are you pretending she is a cultural commentator i should follow? You know she was banned from social media for anti-semitic remarks right?

Again, what list? 

Some religions and and political beliefs can be interpreted to allow racism and misogyny. It depends on the individual strand. You can have liberal christians and evangelical ones 

 

Im not condemming trumpism just because its right wing, im condeming it for its specificly and openly racist, homophobic and sexist public statements and policy ideas. 

[zahidf]

http://www.upworthy.com/chris-rocks-epic-truth-bomb-about-how-its-white-people-that-have-progressed-not-black-people

Good inteview by chris rock from a couple of years ago

[michael eavis' beard]

17 hours ago, LJS said:

Just a couple of quick observations on what has been one of the best day's debating I've read on eFests with lots of good points made on all sides.

 

You just had to come on here and praise the level of debate, didn't you?!  Look what you've done!

[Lad]

39 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

lead poisoning.

Go google.

Looking at some of those reports it's scandalous that people don't get clean water in a rich country like the US.Noted a few photos of Obama drinking what was described as filtered water.

If you hinting that this water pollution is a contributory factor in the violence I don't see as any mitigation for Obama . Hes the bleedin president and should be knocking heads together.Unforgivable that people are poisoned through the water supply.

Even so it wouldn't explain other cities where presumably water pollution isn't a factor.Interesting that people have to put up with crap like that in such a rich society . 

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

what on earth are you talking about?

No links to scientology? It's not what i've been led to believe, nor your ducking a million different comments for a number of years suggests.

 

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Azelia banks is a trolling 21 year old. Are you pretending she is a cultural commentator i should follow? You know she was banned from social media for anti-semitic remarks right?

trolling = person of colour, with a different opinion to you.

She doesn't share the fears you keep banging on about.

What makes you indisputably right and her indisputably wrong?

I'm using her as an example of that different opinion, btw. Only because it got pushed in face elsewhere.

So come on, no shooting the messenger. Make what you say stand up, beyond pointing at someone and saying 'but they said...'.

Perhaps show me where the death camps are?

Or where the police are today turning a blind eye to any racist-based violence (that weren't also doing that on Monday, this is the USA talking about, after all ).

No? Just a lot of lying hot air, same as Trump, then.

 

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Im not condemming trumpism just because its right wing, im condeming it for its specificly and openly racist, homophobic and sexist public statements and policy ideas. 

But if it works how you say, you're also condemning him trying to improve people's lives and opportunities, their wages, and other good things too.

Or are you allowed to separate his good and bad, while not (IYO) being allowed for his voters?

[feral chile]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Clinton was considered the best by her party bigwigs simply as a consequence of everything that's gone before. Exactly as she campaigned on, she was the most qualified for the job. What they forgot was that 'qualified' isn't the same as 'suitable'.

Trump never was considered the best choice by the party bigwigs. He became the candidate in spite of them not wanting him. It was, if you like, the republican party members rebelling against the controlling party clique, same as with Corbyn.

(unfortunately for Corbyn's electoral chances, that's about where the similarity ends. he becomes more like the hated Clinton after that starting comparison)

Circumstances, that's all. It's just how the cookie crumbled.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/10/support-donald-trump-similar-rise-jeremy-corbyn-emily-thornberry

[feral chile]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No links to scientology? It's not what i've been led to believe, nor your ducking a million different comments for a number of years suggests.

 

trolling = person of colour, with a different opinion to you.

She doesn't share the fears you keep banging on about.

What makes you indisputably right and her indisputably wrong?

I'm using her as an example of that different opinion, btw. Only because it got pushed in face elsewhere.

So come on, no shooting the messenger. Make what you say stand up, beyond pointing at someone and saying 'but they said...'.

Perhaps show me where the death camps are?

Or where the police are today turning a blind eye to any racist-based violence (that weren't also doing that on Monday, this is the USA talking about, after all ).

No? Just a lot of lying hot air, same as Trump, then.

 

But if it works how you say, you're also condemning him trying to improve people's lives and opportunities, their wages, and other good things too.

Or are you allowed to separate his good and bad, while not (IYO) being allowed for his voters?

come now, slavery was good for the economy, that doesn't make it morally right, no matter how many people wanted it or voted for it.

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No links to scientology? It's not what i've been led to believe, nor your ducking a million different comments for a number of years suggests.

 

trolling = person of colour, with a different opinion to you.

She doesn't share the fears you keep banging on about.

What makes you indisputably right and her indisputably wrong?

I'm using her as an example of that different opinion, btw. Only because it got pushed in face elsewhere.

So come on, no shooting the messenger. Make what you say stand up, beyond pointing at someone and saying 'but they said...'.

Perhaps show me where the death camps are?

Or where the police are today turning a blind eye to any racist-based violence (that weren't also doing that on Monday, this is the USA talking about, after all ).

No? Just a lot of lying hot air, same as Trump, then.

 

But if it works how you say, you're also condemning him trying to improve people's lives and opportunities, their wages, and other good things too.

Or are you allowed to separate his good and bad, while not (IYO) being allowed for his voters?

is this an end of the road thing? Im not a fan of scientology at all. Ive never seen anything at EOTR which would make me think they were connected.

Me quoting authors and poets and you countering with azelia banks is like you using stephen fry to prove a point, and me asking you to acknowledge katie hopkins viewpoint.

A small percentage of People of colour are ok with Trump. The BNP has a Sikh supporter as well  What's your point?

Promising to improve peoples lives while denigrating minorities? Thats an example of what facism promises!

But fair point, ill wait for the bad stuff to happen rather than say trying to stop it from happening. Cure is always better than prevention.

[eFestivals]

Just now, Lad said:

Looking at some of those reports it's scandalous that people don't get clean water in a rich country like the US.Noted a few photos of Obama drinking what was described as filtered water.

If you hinting that this water pollution is a contributory factor in the violence I don't see as any mitigation for Obama . Hes the bleedin president and should be knocking heads together.Unforgivable that people are poisoned through the water supply.

Even so it wouldn't explain other cities where presumably water pollution isn't a factor.Interesting that people have to put up with crap like that in such a rich society . 

I wasn't actually referring to the water supply issues - tho there's them too - but to air and ground contamination. 

lead poisoning is being fingered for all sorts of things to do with social behaviour. it's been picked up because people have noticed a strong link between the withdrawal of lead in petrol and a sudden and unexplained drop in crime rates. Because lead was phased out at different times in different countries in the world, the correlation appears to be strong and sound.

For whatever reasons, Chicago was/is particularly badly contaminated, and while the poor always tend to live in the more contaminated areas, there was a particularly concentrated problem with poor blacks in Chicago. Lead air/ground poisoning, plus water supply issues, are likely to be a major part of the social problems there.

Obama has tried very hard to tighten up on gun laws. The raving right in america have stopped him. The gun lobby is one that's almost impossible to overcome politically. He's perhaps got closer than others, so I don't think he can really be criticised for trying very hard.