Download 2018

[seant007]

5 hours ago, Steve1000 said:

Dont think Metallica are that far from Maiden and Sabbath so I'm sure they'd easily do Sunday.

metallica are not that great of a Sunday band, they're more of a heavy hitter for Saturday, andy most likely wont put them as Sunday's if there is any other possibility for it. 

like gnr, bon jovi, even def leppard

[Steve1000]

2 hours ago, dentalplan said:

I know it seems like one bullshit pattern on top of another but Saturday tends to be a marquee name to bring in day ticketers (easiest day to sell tickets to obviously) whilst also being a key point of the weekend. The likes of Avenged and NIN and BMTH just aren't gonna do that. Would be looking at seriously massive bands to make pushing Metallica out to Sunday a reasonable idea - Foo Fighters, Guns N' Roses, maybe Pearl Jam.

Yeah this seems like a load of w*nk. Like how Biffy certainly weren't a big hitter. Just give them a dank undercard - like the prodigy subbing

[dentalplan]

6 minutes ago, Steve1000 said:

Yeah this seems like a load of w*nk. Like how Biffy certainly weren't a big hitter. Just give them a dank undercard - like the prodigy subbing

 Give over. Biffy have been headlining major mainstream festivals for half a decade. On paper they're absolutely a big hitter for Download. In practice not so much because they're sinking fast and on the arse end of this tour but still with the limited options that Download have they're the draw for casuals that Download wants.

[Steve1000]

9 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

 Give over. Biffy have been headlining major mainstream festivals for half a decade. On paper they're absolutely a big hitter for Download. In practice not so much because they're sinking fast and on the arse end of this tour but still with the limited options that Download have they're the draw for casuals that Download wants.

That's what I'm saying though, they are a big band yes but in the circumstances weren't anything special

[Andre91]

People need to just shut up and give it a rest about Biffy at Download (not targeted at you specifically @Steve1000). They are bigger than other headliners who have played Download in recent years. They absolutely smashed it (like they always do) and they will probably headline again in future. 

I disagree that they're sinking fast. They aren't. They're still getting #1 albums, selling out multiple arena dates and headlining major festivals. They're comfortable. They aren't going anywhere in a hurry and will likely continue doing all of the above for the remainder of their career. Download needs bands like Biffy, especially when the ice age comes and half of their reliable headliner pool retire. 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Andre91

[Steve1000]

2 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

People need to just shut up and give it a rest about Biffy at Download (not targeted at you specifically @Steve1000). They are bigger than other headliners who have played Download in recent years. They absolutely smashed it (like they always do) and they will probably headline again in future. 

I disagree that they're sinking fast. They aren't. They're still getting #1 albums, selling out multiple arena dates and headlining major festivals. They're comfortable. They aren't going anywhere in a hurry and will likely continue doing all of the above for the remainder of their career. Download needs bands like Biffy, especially when the ice age comes and half of their reliable headliner pool retire. 

 

Mate I'm all for Biffy at Download and think it's great, just not a huge headliner given the festival and having done so many other festivals on the Ellipsis tour. I was just using it as evidence against having your big hitters on sat, that'd be SOAD

The tours aren't doing as well as previously are they? And the albums don't seem to have that much hype or significance anymore. I guess I don't have solid evidence that they're sinking though

[Andre91]

Just now, Steve1000 said:

Mate I'm all for Biffy at Download and think it's great, just not a huge headliner given the festival and having done so many other festivals on the Ellipsis tour. I was just using it as evidence against having your big hitters on sat, that'd be SOAD

The tours aren't doing as well as previously are they? And the albums don't seem to have that much hype or significance anymore. I guess I don't have solid evidence that they're sinking though

Ahh, I get you. 

A #1 album is still a #1 album. And the tours are still selling out. Manchester in December was the most packed I've ever seen arena (I sat at a gig for the first time in 7 years, I had the best view  ). I just really don't subscribe to the thought that they're on the way down. They're staying where they are, I'm super confident of that. 

Headliners aside, it'll be interesting to see who we get as subs in 2018. I think Enter Shikari will be one of them for sure. Stone Sour could, or they could play third. Black Stone Cherry would seem logical if they're about, too. Marilyn Manson, maybe? He headlined second last time but he's such a risk these days, he's more often than not a load of arse. 

[dentalplan]

 

2 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Ahh, I get you. 

A #1 album is still a #1 album. And the tours are still selling out. Manchester in December was the most packed I've ever seen arena (I sat at a gig for the first time in 7 years, I had the best view  ). I just really don't subscribe to the thought that they're on the way down. They're staying where they are, I'm super confident of that. 

Then you've got your head in the sand guv.

A #1 album that sells half of what the previous record did in its first week might look the same but shows a drop off. Same as a show that takes months longer to sell than it did last time around. So the next record might not sell enough to be #1 and the next show might not sell out as they drift further from the mainstream heights that were almost a decade ago. And if they're heading out that way then why would a festival schedule them to headline a couple of years in advance when signs show that the next album could fare worse?

They've already taken a sub slot at a festival they'd have been on course to headline at if they kept things up and I think most suspect there are more of those to come on next album. Maybe Download will keep them at the top of their lineups but I don't really see why after this year.

19 minutes ago, Steve1000 said:

Mate I'm all for Biffy at Download and think it's great, just not a huge headliner given the festival and having done so many other festivals on the Ellipsis tour. I was just using it as evidence against having your big hitters on sat, that'd be SOAD

And what have SOAD done on this tour? Download once already and a sub slot at R+L...  

Besides, this is a festival that caters to SOAD fans so how they gonna sell Saturday tickets if their fans are there from Wednesday? Biffy at least caters to an audience that doesn't have to care what else is on at the festival. Same with plenty of other previous Saturday headliners.

[Andre91]

11 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

 

Then you've got your head in the sand guv.

A #1 album that sells half of what the previous record did in its first week might look the same but shows a drop off. Same as a show that takes months longer to sell than it did last time around. So the next record might not sell enough to be #1 and the next show might not sell out as they drift further from the mainstream heights that were almost a decade ago. And if they're heading out that way then why would a festival schedule them to headline a couple of years in advance when signs show that the next album could fare worse?

They've already taken a sub slot at a festival they'd have been on course to headline at if they kept things up and I think most suspect there are more of those to come on next album. Maybe Download will keep them at the top of their lineups but I don't really see why after this year.

And what have SOAD done on this tour? Download once already and a sub slot at R+L...  

Besides, this is a festival that caters to SOAD fans so how they gonna sell Saturday tickets if their fans are there from Wednesday? Biffy at least caters to an audience that doesn't have to care what else is on at the festival. Same with plenty of other previous Saturday headliners.

I get what you're saying, but albums are selling less and less each year (unless you're Ed Sheeran). A7X got to #1 on HTTC with sales that wouldn't ever have got them there previously. Biffy's peak was 2013 when they got that #1 album and headlined R&L for the first time; that was only four years ago. They may be doing less now in the mainstream than they were, but if they get announced for R&L, Download, T (or TRNSMT) and IOW, it's gong to be as a headliner. Glastonbury was odd but I remember loss of reports that Glasto didn't consider Biffy a headliner even when they'd headlined everywhere else which is strange.

Anyway, they aren't going to be at DL 2018  

On topic, I just got an image of DL asking NIN to sub and Trent seeing this year's lineup and kicking off that they let Biffy headline and not him  

SOAD are a shameless cash cow like RATM became. Get some new material out.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Andre91

[Steve1000]

22 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

And what have SOAD done on this tour? Download once already and a sub slot at R+L...  

Besides, this is a festival that caters to SOAD fans so how they gonna sell Saturday tickets if their fans are there from Wednesday? Biffy at least caters to an audience that doesn't have to care what else is on at the festival. Same with plenty of other previous Saturday headliners.

Yeah fair enough, guess that's right.

EDIT- actually, wouldn't that be the same case for NIN and BMTH fans, who would be less weekend ticket-inclined, who you dismissed as unsuitable Saturday headliners?

Edited August 16, 2017 by Steve1000

[Andre91]

Get NIN headlining the Saturday. That'll draw in dayticketers if it's UK exclusive show for 2018 or something. 

[Andre91]

Get NIN headlining the Saturday. That'll draw in dayticketers if it's UK exclusive show for 2018 or something. 

[dentalplan]

23 minutes ago, Steve1000 said:

Yeah fair enough, guess that's right.

EDIT- actually, wouldn't that be the same case for NIN and BMTH fans, who would be less weekend ticket-inclined, who you dismissed as unsuitable Saturday headliners?

Just don't think either would be big enough considering you have Metallica right there next to them. 

25 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Biffy's peak was 2013

2009/10 was when they had a fuckload of huge singles wasn't if? I'd consider that their peak and 2013 was when they got around to collecting on that but the album that year didn't really serve a single song up that stands alongside Many of Horror, Captain, etc. as genuine massive mainstream hits. And this album didn't seem to have any either. Next English festival they headline could legit be Kendal or Victorious.

Edited August 16, 2017 by dentalplan

[Steve1000]

Im pretty sure at Download BMTH in 2018 at their peak will be a bigger deal than Biffy in 2017

Biffy have plenty of Ts left in them for sure 

[dentalplan]

They've dumped BMTH two years on the bounce. Clearly the festival has different ideas about how Earth-shatteringly colossal BMTH are.

Anyway, putting it plainly I think Metallica will be their big ticket shifter on Saturday, A7X the Friday headliner and then someone old but not as appealing to casuals as Metallica on Sunday.

Just also been thinking about Placebo doing their first UK festival in eight years or so last month - I can totally imagine them now playing Download.

[Steve1000]

Ditching BMTH in 16 was a dick move but they hadn't particularly established themselves at that point and he had a trio all bigger than them rather than having to look down the barrel of Def Leppard. Booking them in 17 would've been completely pointless

Things are changing here I guess. Who would have thought r Andy'd ditch Linkin Park to give Biffy a swing? Now they might not go down great, but in 5 years time when the fest has properly established itself with the mainstream it's a whole new story

Edited August 16, 2017 by Steve1000

[Andre91]

Opposites was their first #1 album and it had Black Chandelier and Biblical as singles which were always on Radio 1. 

I think BMTH would be more of a risk and get more of a backlash than Biffy. For years and years they were (very unfairly) the butt of jokes in the metal world so now they've turned their backs on it, who can blame them? It still makes all the sense in the world for them to headline but the show I saw on their tour last November would go down like a lead balloon at Download. 

[stevieg1993]

I know this might sound a little gimmicky and stuff and just getting excited about AlterBridge at the Royal Albert Hall with the Orchestra but I'd love Avenged Sevenfold or BMTH announce themselves for Download as a UK Exclusive with a 52 piece Orchestra. Think it hype them more up then Metallica Saturday then who ever else for Sunday. Give Download festival a completely different experience. 

[dentalplan]

This is what I'll throw out there right now:

FRI:
Avenged Sevenfold, Stone Sour, Megadeth, Black Veil Brides
// The Offspring, Rise Against
/// Converge

SAT:
Metallica, Marilyn Manson, Placebo, Papa Roach
// Brand New, Frank Carter & the Rattlesnakes
/// Pvris

SUN:
Bon Jovi, Evanescence, Volbeat, Rival Sons
// Ghost, Architects
/// Neck Deep

I know Avenged vs. Offspring happened last time but I doubt that'd stop it happening again.

[Andre91]

18 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

This is what I'll throw out there right now:

FRI:
Avenged Sevenfold, Stone Sour, Megadeth, Black Veil Brides
// The Offspring, Rise Against
/// Converge

SAT:
Metallica, Marilyn Manson, Placebo, Papa Roach
// Brand New, Frank Carter & the Rattlesnakes
/// Pvris

SUN:
Bon Jovi, Evanescence, Volbeat, Rival Sons
// Ghost, Architects
/// Neck Deep

I know Avenged vs. Offspring happened last time but I doubt that'd stop it happening again.

Nice. Placings looks really accurate. I'd be happy with it, other than Brand New clashing with Metallica. That'd be a killer   Do you think Placebo would play Download? It'd be a gnarly booking. Although I think they'd make a great second stage headliner opposite someone like Avenged. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Andre91

[dentalplan]

1 minute ago, Andre91 said:

Placements looks really accurate. I'd be happy with it, other than Brand New clashing with Metallica. That'd be a killer   Do you think Placebo would play Download? It'd be a gnarly booking. Although I think they'd make a great second stage headliner opposite someone like Avenged. 

Yeah for sure. Placebo doing their first UK festival in ages a few weeks ago at Latitude (now Download's sister at FR I guess) is a stepping stone. They probably would be more suited to a 2nd stage headline slot, I agree, but The Offspring's touring schedule is so predictable that they're almost certainly in the area next year and they've had enough of a gap to return - I guess you could swap them over without much hassle.

I could imagine them closing down the second stage early so you might not have to worry about clashes with Metallica. Means you'd miss Manson instead tho like.

[Andre91]

19 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Yeah for sure. Placebo doing their first UK festival in ages a few weeks ago at Latitude (now Download's sister at FR I guess) is a stepping stone. They probably would be more suited to a 2nd stage headline slot, I agree, but The Offspring's touring schedule is so predictable that they're almost certainly in the area next year and they've had enough of a gap to return - I guess you could swap them over without much hassle.

I could imagine them closing down the second stage early so you might not have to worry about clashes with Metallica. Means you'd miss Manson instead tho like.

Didn't realise Placebo hadn't played a festival in so long. That'd be a bloody brilliant booking and one that would go down really well I would imagine. 

Fair point about The Offspring, too. I guess they could play Main Stage but they seem more suited to second. They could probably still play third down Main st DL and still get a massive crowd. AFI played third this year and got a pitiful crowd, I'm sure The Offspring are much more popular with your average DL goer than AFI. 

Incubus have a new album out so I wouldn't be surprised to see them pop up. Where would they play these days? Fourth down Main? 

There's so many options for 2018. Should be a good year. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Andre91

[Steve1000]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Opposites was their first #1 album and it had Black Chandelier and Biblical as singles which were always on Radio 1. 

I think BMTH would be more of a risk and get more of a backlash than Biffy. For years and years they were (very unfairly) the butt of jokes in the metal world so now they've turned their backs on it, who can blame them? It still makes all the sense in the world for them to headline but the show I saw on their tour last November would go down like a lead balloon at Download. 

But the majority of Biffy fans won't have much interest in Download and have had plenty of more suitable options this tour, where as BMTH will have alot more crossover with her ADTR, AFI, PTV etc so would shift more tickets. Throw someone like Megadeth or Scorpions on 2nd and everyone wins

[dentalplan]

2 hours ago, Steve1000 said:

But the majority of Biffy fans won't have much interest in Download and have had plenty of more suitable options this tour, where as BMTH will have alot more crossover with her ADTR, AFI, PTV etc so would shift more tickets. Throw someone like Megadeth or Scorpions on 2nd and everyone wins

You've just explained why BMTH are better the day before so people buy weekend tickets. If Metallica are Saturday, fans are buying tickets to see them not scraping together what acts they like to justify it. As was the plan with Biffy.

[seant007]

21 hours ago, JSmurphy said:

The Prodigy would smash a headline set. Always put on a great show. 

they would indeed but they probably wont be a relevant headliner by then.