Download 2018

[Reece1617]

16 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

21P are too far removed. They’re an oh and our pop band who have no business being covered by rock/metal press at the expense of bands who are actually part of that. The kind of Ska Download gets is Ska Punk so that is still in that world. 

While She Sleeps’ album was one of the best metal albums of last year, banging front start to finish. You should definitely check it out  

1

Second this. 

[Steve1000]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

LP absolutely. I’ve said previously that they are directly to blame for bands like 21P being pushed by rock media. Things thankfully seem to be looking a lot better. Code Orange are nominated for a Grammy, Employed To Serve got Kerrang’s album of the year, While She Sleeps got to #8 in the charts with an album that they put out completely by themselves and funded by the fans. 

I don't see the connection there. LP were definitely a cut and dry rock band. So the rock press can push them no problem. Where as 21P aren't a rock band at all, and what's happened is that Kerrang and the rest of the rock world have seen that profits are down, so they've taken an overtly commercial band who merely have an aesthetic reminiscent of their readerships favourites so they get away with it. Don't see what LP have to do with that. Anyway if a kid buys Kerrang because they see 5SOS or 21P on the cover, and come out an Employed To Serve fan, surely we've done well?

[Andre91]

8 minutes ago, Steve1000 said:

I don't see the connection there. LP were definitely a cut and dry rock band. So the rock press can push them no problem. Where as 21P aren't a rock band at all, and what's happened is that Kerrang and the rest of the rock world have seen that profits are down, so they've taken an overtly commercial band who merely have an aesthetic reminiscent of their readerships favourites so they get away with it. Don't see what LP have to do with that. Anyway if a kid buys Kerrang because they see 5SOS or 21P on the cover, and come out an Employed To Serve fan, surely we've done well?

Because LP were really watered down at the time compared. They opened the gates to things getting lighter and lighter getting covered. I’m not saying LP weren’t deserving of being covered, I’m saying that what came after as a result of them is the biggest problem. 

Nobody is going from 21P or 5SOS straight to ETS  I get what you’re saying, that it’s where they could eventually be lead. But fuck bands like that being covered when there are plenty of awesome bands who should be covered instead of them. Like I said, times look to be changing. 

[Pop Punk Sucks]

16 hours ago, Reece1617 said:

Are we assuming that no one will clash with GNR? I can't imagine it being great for any band who is booked to clash with them. I went to see WSS at Leeds whilst Eminem was on main and it was quite sad knowing that, if the headliner wasn't so big, they'd get a decent turnout. 

 

You could have no headliner on main stage and While She Sleeps still wouldn't have got that good of a turnout. 

[devilman]

5 hours ago, Andre91 said:

MCR were the single most important band of a generation. 

Only for emo fuckpops. They weren't even the most important band at any venue the 3 times I've seen them. They were better that 30STM though.

21Pilots may have played 2nd very early in the day a few years back, and they were fairly entertaining in a WTAF are these jokers doing here kind of way, but they have no lave at Download. It's bad enough with the uproar over Biffy and Muse. They are just the wrong genre, and I'm all over diversifying a bit.

WSS were shite supporting BFMV but somewhat amazing headline the Pit/Lockup at Leeds. They should indeed be given a checking out.

[Pop Punk Sucks]

4 hours ago, Andre91 said:

LP absolutely. I’ve said previously that they are directly to blame for bands like 21P being pushed by rock media. Things thankfully seem to be looking a lot better. Code Orange are nominated for a Grammy, Employed To Serve got Kerrang’s album of the year, While She Sleeps got to #8 in the charts with an album that they put out completely by themselves and funded by the fans. 

 

This is absolute nonsense. Linkin Park and their success have absolutely nothing to do with bands like Twenty One Pilots being pushed by the rock media. That's like saying Green Day and Blink-182 are to blame for the rock media pushing 5 Seconds of Summer. They're not. 

When homeboy from 5 Seconds of Summer was still in kindergarten, Busted were doing exactly what 5S0S are doing now. Putting out watered down pop songs vaguely masquerading as pop-punk, which had obviously been inspired by Green Day and Blink-182. What they were putting out then had far more to do with Blink-182 than the vast majority of what 5 Seconds of Summer have produced, but when they were smashing the charts were they on the front cover of Kerrang and Rock Sound? No. They were on the front cover of Smash Hits and nobody in the rock media would touch them with a barge pole. 

12 years ago when red beanie Aldi Eminem from Twenty One Pilots was still an 18 year old working part-time in a Walmart, Lil Chris was getting Top 3 UK singles. His one single 'Checking It Out' has more guitar parts in 3 minutes than Twenty One Pilots have in a 4 album back catalogue. But was Lil Chris on the front cover of Kerrang and Rock Sound? No. If Lil Chris was smashing up the UK charts right now, Rock Sound would be shitting out articles on him on an hourly basis. 

The problems you've got is the decline of print media and journalistic credibility as a result of desperation. Nothing to do with bands or what music has become popular. Maybe part of it is actually Rock Sound or Kerrang actively seeking out part of the demographic that would generally have bought Smash Hits, or even the bands that would've been on the front covers of Smash Hits. There's definitely money in it and they've taken it in recent years. 

But ultimately with your point, it's not a case of "well if Hybrid Theory didn't blow up and become one of the biggest albums ever, then something heavier and better would". That's not how it works. The idea that Linkin Park are somehow responsible for rock music being in "a bad way" is mental. 

I'll put it to you like this. If you went back in time and you somehow prevented Linkin Park from ever being a band, then you immediately came back to 2018...do you think bands like While She Sleeps are selling out back to back nights at The 02? Do you think bands like Code Orange are headlining Download? 

I honestly think if Linkin Park and Hybrid Theory never happened, there's a pretty good chance that Download Festival doesn't even exist. Go to pretty much any rock/metal festival or gig up and down the country and ask anyone under the age of like 35 what band/album got them into rock or metal? 3 guesses as to what the most answered album/band combo is. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Pop Punk Sucks

[seant007]

2 hours ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

 

This is absolute nonsense. Linkin Park and their success have absolutely nothing to do with bands like Twenty One Pilots being pushed by the rock media. That's like saying Green Day and Blink-182 are to blame for the rock media pushing 5 Seconds of Summer. They're not. 

When homeboy from 5 Seconds of Summer was still in kindergarten, Busted were doing exactly what 5S0S are doing now. Putting out watered down pop songs vaguely masquerading as pop-punk, which had obviously been inspired by Green Day and Blink-182. What they were putting out then had far more to do with Blink-182 than the vast majority of what 5 Seconds of Summer have produced, but when they were smashing the charts were they on the front cover of Kerrang and Rock Sound? No. They were on the front cover of Smash Hits and nobody in the rock media would touch them with a barge pole. 

12 years ago when red beanie Aldi Eminem from Twenty One Pilots was still an 18 year old working part-time in a Walmart, Lil Chris was getting Top 3 UK singles. His one single 'Checking It Out' has more guitar parts in 3 minutes than Twenty One Pilots have in a 4 album back catalogue. But was Lil Chris on the front cover of Kerrang and Rock Sound? No. If Lil Chris was smashing up the UK charts right now, Rock Sound would be shitting out articles on him on an hourly basis. 

The problems you've got is the decline of print media and journalistic credibility as a result of desperation. Nothing to do with bands or what music has become popular. Maybe part of it is actually Rock Sound or Kerrang actively seeking out part of the demographic that would generally have bought Smash Hits, or even the bands that would've been on the front covers of Smash Hits. There's definitely money in it and they've taken it in recent years. 

But ultimately with your point, it's not a case of "well if Hybrid Theory didn't blow up and become one of the biggest albums ever, then something heavier and better would". That's not how it works. The idea that Linkin Park are somehow responsible for rock music being in "a bad way" is mental. 

I'll put it to you like this. If you went back in time and you somehow prevented Linkin Park from ever being a band, then you immediately came back to 2018...do you think bands like While She Sleeps are selling out back to back nights at The 02? Do you think bands like Code Orange are headlining Download? 

I honestly think if Linkin Park and Hybrid Theory never happened, there's a pretty good chance that Download Festival doesn't even exist. Go to pretty much any rock/metal festival or gig up and down the country and ask anyone under the age of like 35 what band/album got them into rock or metal? 3 guesses as to what the most answered album/band combo is. 

 

 

21 pilots have hardly anything to do with rock at all imo, they don't have the rawness and type of background bands like LP and MCR do, you hit the nail on the head with Hybrid, it would have been harder for sure to festivals in the rock scene to resurge without the converge of different genres AND the realness that LP had, to me 21 Pilots have none of what bands like LP and MCR, they are just too pop and overrated.

Look at the White Stripes and Royal Blood, these bands will be the 2 pieces to headline, not modern poppy bull****.

[Andre91]

Didn’t want to quote because it’s a long lost, but those are some great points you’ve made @Pop Punk Sucks 

I just think that LP were damaging in the sense that they were an even more watered down version of what was going on at the time (there’s a reason LP were an entire generation’s entry to heavy music, it was more palatable) with Bizkit, KoRn and Deftones etc, bands which the METAL lot were just about ok with because they had enough to do with metal for them to accept, but then LP came along and had even less to do with that and half of them got on board with it and then lapped up all the shit that sprung up in the wake of LP that was just as watered down and more, and the other half thought fuck this, this isn’t metal enough, I want the old guard like Maiden and Priest (who were in a bad spot in the late 90s) and grabbed their denim vests and made bands like that in demand again. Without that, I don’t think we would be stuck in the spot we have been in the Download era where a big chunk of the audience want those bands and that’s why we have struggled for headliners and had repeats of the big old bands so much.

Different point to the 21P thing but whilst we are on the topic of LP’s impact it’s linked to that. 

Back to this year’s lineup, where are we thinking Neck Deep will play? I think they absolutely should be on one of the outdoor stages but I can see them headlining the Avalanche opposite Avenged possibly. 

[Andre91]

2 hours ago, seant007 said:

21 pilots have hardly anything to do with rock at all imo, they don't have the rawness and type of background bands like LP and MCR do, you hit the nail on the head with Hybrid, it would have been harder for sure to festivals in the rock scene to resurge without the converge of different genres AND the realness that LP had, to me 21 Pilots have none of what bands like LP and MCR, they are just too pop and overrated.

Look at the White Stripes and Royal Blood, these bands will be the 2 pieces to headline, not modern poppy bull****.

21P have nothing to do with rock and at all. It’s their image that has got them in, the same for PVRIS who, especially on this second album, aren’t anything to do with that world anymore. 

[seant007]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

21P have nothing to do with rock and at all. It’s their image that has got them in, the same for PVRIS who, especially on this second album, aren’t anything to do with that world anymore. 

Do you really think their image is big enough for them to even be considered for headlining download at some point? I don't, they're not rock , so no download.

[seant007]

Rock Feed has stated that Phil Anselmo is looking at a conference to reunite Pantera with all surviving members only. If Pantera did reunite and decide to hit some festivals, could they be another possibility for a headline in post 2018?

I sure think they would.

Edited January 17, 2018 by seant007

[Pop Punk Sucks]

17 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Didn’t want to quote because it’s a long lost, but those are some great points you’ve made @Pop Punk Sucks 

I just think that LP were damaging in the sense that they were an even more watered down version of what was going on at the time (there’s a reason LP were an entire generation’s entry to heavy music, it was more palatable) with Bizkit, KoRn and Deftones etc, bands which the METAL lot were just about ok with because they had enough to do with metal for them to accept, but then LP came along and had even less to do with that and half of them got on board with it and then lapped up all the shit that sprung up in the wake of LP that was just as watered down and more, and the other half thought fuck this, this isn’t metal enough, I want the old guard like Maiden and Priest (who were in a bad spot in the late 90s) and grabbed their denim vests and made bands like that in demand again. Without that, I don’t think we would be stuck in the spot we have been in the Download era where a big chunk of the audience want those bands and that’s why we have struggled for headliners and had repeats of the big old bands so much.

Different point to the 21P thing but whilst we are on the topic of LP’s impact it’s linked to that. 

Back to this year’s lineup, where are we thinking Neck Deep will play? I think they absolutely should be on one of the outdoor stages but I can see them headlining the Avalanche opposite Avenged possibly. 

 

The idea that Linkin Park blowing up is the reason that Maiden, Priest etc became in demand again is absolutely nonsensical and reeks of someone who wasn't around at the time. Linkin Park not blowing up wouldn't have stopped Maiden's return to popularity. Maiden's return to prominence didn't really have anything to do with Linkin Park, they fell off because of a whole host of issues, primarily internal conflict within the band, Bruce Dickinson leaving, members being more interested in solo material. Some of their performances around that time put people off too as they weren't getting on and it was really showing. It's not like Maiden fans were raving in trackies to Limp Bizkit and Korn then suddenly went back to Maiden when Linkin Park came out. Maiden fans went back to Maiden when Bruce Dickinson rejoined the band and the band started taking themselves seriously and were 100 percent committed, which was shown in their live shows and the new albums which everyone went nutty for. 

Judas Priest again, another weird example, as their "bad spot" came about again, as a result of internal conflicts from within the band and James Halford leaving in the early 90's. No surprise that when a massive charismatic and influential member of a band leaves that they suddenly drop off in popularity. They didn't return in the early 2000's because people were tired of Linkin Park, it was because people hadn't seen the original lineup of Judas Priest for 12 years. It was a BIG deal. 

I don't get or buy this argument that the demand for these bands as a Download headliner is only still there because of Linkin Park making them think "oh actually, nah this is too much for me".Your point is that Linkin Park were responsible for the likes of Maiden, Priest etc becoming popular and clogging up Download, having repeat headiners, nobody likes the new bands etc etc. So let's have a look at bands who have headlined Download more than once since it's inception then...

Iron Maiden - 4 : One of the most popular heavy metal bands to ever do it. As I've said, Maiden did get a bit stale, but again they had massive internal conflicts and lead singers leaving for 5-10 years. Then when they did return and were pumping out great albums and stonking live shows, guess what, the people came back. Maiden are a religion to their fans, it weren't like they fucked off to the Family Values tour, they just stayed at home or didn't bother so much with live music and gigs. If Oli Sykes left BMTH tomorrow, then they had the keyboard guy doing vocals for 7 years and a few album cycles, they'd obviously decline in popularity as people would go off them and not bother with albums and live shows. But if in 2025, Oli Sykes came back, and they started pumping out There Is A Hell, Sempiternal type shit again, guess what, those people are back aren't they?

Linkin Park - 4:   Definitely not one of the big old bands. Biggest band of a generation so no surprise they headlined it 4 times in 11 years. 

Metallica - 3: Biggest metal band of all time. I'd actually argue that them only headlining 3 times in 15 years is a bit poor for DL, but they had competition during that time of course. 

Black Sabbath - 3: Pioneers and legends of heavy metal. Again, is them headlining 3 times in 15 years really that much or overkill? 

System of a Down - 3: Not a big/old band. One of the bigger bands of the 21st century. Could maybe argue 2017 wasn't warranted with no new album, but people still turned out for them and they're always demanded. 

Slipknot - 3: Not a big/old band. Could argue they could/should have done it 4 times. 

Aerosmith - 3: Weren't exactly in a bad place in the late 90's, but I Don't Wanna Miss A Thing/Armageddon gave them a decent push and won them a lot of new fans/got some old fans back. Absolutely huge classic rock band, a favorite at Monsters of Rock. Hardly that much of a surprise/outrage that they've headlined it 3 times in 14 years, especially with the last one booked as their last ever UK show. 

Guns N Roses - 2: Absolutely massive band. One of the biggest ever. No point even discussing this, but obviously Chinese Democracy came out in the time period you're talking about and they started touring in a big way again, so no surprise they headlined when they did. 

KISS - 2: Another massive massive band. Linkin Park, again, not really involved in this at all. Kiss had internal conflicts and band members leaving. Their big reunion which people were pretty excited about came years before Chester Bennington and Mike Shinoda had even met. 

Def Leppard - 2: Suffered from a member dying and then as a result of grunge and alternative rock being a massive thing they tried to change their sound in the mid 90's. People didn't like it and they bombed. Again, at least a year or so before Chester Bennington and Mike Shinoda had even met, they decided to return to their classic sound with Euphoria, and guess what, people went mad for it and they were a thing again. I don't think Def Leppard headlining twice in 15 years is thaaat crazy and I think people get shitty about them because the headlined again so soon. If they'd headlined in say 2006 and 2011, I don't think there's as much of a thing about it. 

Rammstein: - 2: "New band".

Avenged Sevenfold: - 2: "New band"  

 

So again, I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make. Download's always tried to be a festival that caters to both the new and the old crowd, obviously some years it doesn't work. But at the same time, this is a festival that tried out My Chemical Romance. They tried to go for an indie day and had Feeder headline. They've given Muse and Biffy a go. They would've given Blink/Green Day a go if they could've booked them. When bigger bands have bailed, they've let the likes of The Offspring and Lostprophets step in. Iron Maiden have been supported by the likes of Marilyn Manson, Evanescence, Queens of The Stone Age and Nightwish. Metallica have been supported by the likes of Korn and Biffy Clyro. Black Sabbath have had Deftones and Soundgarden support them. 

The bands you're moaning about being so popular and being in demand, as well as Linkin Park blowing up massively and getting people "in" are simply the reason that a festival like Download exists and morphed out from Monsters of Rock by combining the two demographics, as well as mixing in some punk and alt rock stuff here and there. I don't get where you're getting these ideas and information from, but it's really weird revisionism that massively downplays and undermines the popularity and sheer demand/reach of the classic bands and to scapegoat Linkin Park for music not being in a place you want is just bizarre.

 

[Steve1000]

58 minutes ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

I don't get where you're getting these ideas and information from

That's Not Metal I presume because they like to talk about the "Hybrid Theory effect". I was 9 or 10 at the time so can't comment really but those guys definitely were around then. Does seem far-fetched, though.

[Andre91]

@Pop Punk Sucks I am not going to agree with you on this. 

[dentalplan]

I don't really get how Linkin Park are meant to have tipped the scales after Limp Bizkit and Korn and whoever. I thought, if anything, they were bigger because they attracted more of the purer metal and rock fans who kept Bizkit and Korn at arms length cos they were a bit of a joke to a lot of people and essentially a stop-gap. I'm way too young to recall their reception among metal crowds but I know they weren't muscling Hear'Say and Liberty X out of the Smash Hits magazines at the time.  I thought their overtly 'pop' period came a while after tbh.

[Pop Punk Sucks]

15 hours ago, dentalplan said:

I don't really get how Linkin Park are meant to have tipped the scales after Limp Bizkit and Korn and whoever. I thought, if anything, they were bigger because they attracted more of the purer metal and rock fans who kept Bizkit and Korn at arms length cos they were a bit of a joke to a lot of people and essentially a stop-gap. I'm way too young to recall their reception among metal crowds but I know they weren't muscling Hear'Say and Liberty X out of the Smash Hits magazines at the time.  I thought their overtly 'pop' period came a while after tbh.

 

Yeah I'm not really sure what he's on about. A strange argument from someone who wasn't there at the time that seems to have come from someone with a real hatred for Linkin Park. Pretty sure if Hybrid Theory never happens, a load of the bands that Andre is championing wouldn't even be bands today. There's a sizable chance he himself never gets into heavy music and this sub-forum doesn't even exist as Download isn't a festival. 

I'd actually even argue that if Linkin Park didn't blow up and help bring people in to get into other "new" bands, as well as expose more people to bands like Limp Bizkit, Korn, Slipknot etc etc, then Download Festival, if it did actually exist, would have had even more in common with Monsters of Rock and would've actually had less "new" bands and new headliners than it did before. Without Linkin Park getting a load of new people in to make it viable to go after a younger market, when Maiden, Priest etc returned to form and popularity again, they would've been the sole sort of bands that Download would've gone after. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Pop Punk Sucks

[devilman]

Mixture of past tenses makes very difficult reading. Starts off like a football pundit. Poor presentation of what could be a valid point. 4/10

[IsaacMuse]

[seant007]

Either Ghost or AIC as the 3rd 2nd stage headliner.

[Andre91]

I don’t hate Linkin Park at all. Well, I hate what they became. But those first two al has can’t be argued against. Hybrid Theory has some bonafide all-time bangers on. 

You’re arguing of the positives that came in the wake of Hybrid Theory of which there are many, but it also spawned a lot of negatives. 

Anyway, 50+ bands coming on Tuesday. Can’t wait for it. I’m going for Alice In Chains headlining second against A7X.o think Ghost will play third down main. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Andre91

[Dukey]

What are the chances of Architects and Limp Bizkit being announced do we think?

[Chavmeisterdeluxe]

44 minutes ago, Dukey said:

What are the chances of Architects and Limp Bizkit being announced do we think?

Limp Bizkit more likely I'd say.

[Steve1000]

Yeah I think Architects will do 2019 instead.

[Moey]

To me, this is the announcement to look forward to. The majority of my 7 downloads have been not because of the headliners but more the acts that have underpinned them. 

I'm not sure why there is the feeling for bsc to play though, subbing gnr potentially. To my knowledge they don't have an album to push, having done Kentucky and their own acoustic /electric shows in the last 18 months. Granted, they are a bit of a regular at DL and I would definitely watch and support them, but it just seems strange to call them out as subs.

unless I'm missing something?

[seant007]

42 minutes ago, Moey said:

To me, this is the announcement to look forward to. The majority of my 7 downloads have been not because of the headliners but more the acts that have underpinned them. 

I'm not sure why there is the feeling for bsc to play though, subbing gnr potentially. To my knowledge they don't have an album to push, having done Kentucky and their own acoustic /electric shows in the last 18 months. Granted, they are a bit of a regular at DL and I would definitely watch and support them, but it just seems strange to call them out as subs.

unless I'm missing something?

They have a new EP by the name of "Back to Blues" that fits it's title and has gotten quite satisfactory reviews, you should def check it out if you like BSC.

Edited January 18, 2018 by seant007