Don't vote Tory

[oneeye]

She is struggling on the Andrew Neil interview BBC 1 atm, squirming like a squirmy thing. She doesn't seem to have any depth to her manifesto once the surface has been scratched. Labour have a real opportunity........

[Crazyfool01]

She is performing terribly in this interview !! ^^

[thatcrazypenguin]

6 minutes ago, mikegday said:

I'll be voting conservative (I think). I didn't last time. Next time a different party might appeal to me more. I don't think it's particularly healthy to vote for a party because you have always voted that way previously. I'm also aware that I live in a very Labour safe seat, Liverpool Riverside. My family and boyfriend will be voting Labour. If you're happy with your own personal choice, that's all that matters. The fact that you've bothered to go vote I think means you have a genuine interest in bettering our country/world, irrespective of who you vote for - over someone who couldn't be arsed to turn out.

Mikegday thats fine to a point but if you back someone your giving your support to thier policies and their agenda....and in the tories case some of that is pretty monstrous....just pray you never end up as one of those the tories are hurting i guess eh? As a parent of 2 kids one just started school one near to that age its hard for me for example to be nice to someone who supports a party that wants to make massive cuts to the education system affecting every school included my kids or supports unneeded abd objectionable stressful sat testing for 7 year old children. Thats one of my own personal gripes. 

Im sorry to say as far as the policies they are expressing support for I rank tory fans as low as I do the far right nowadays....I dont see how someone can look at what they are doing to so many lives particularly when it comes to cuts to disabled and mental health services, cuts to the nhs, job centre sanctions etc.....and say 'im ok with that. Im going to vote for these monsters'......and still expect people to be nice to them.

Its like I said to a guy i know who wondered why i got offended when he said he backed rhe tories.....mate dont expect kind words when your using your vote to throw my future and more importantly my kids futures under a bus!....im all for freedom to vote how you wish of course I am...but its my freedom to judge based on my opinion of that also. Tory voters will be judged harshly and theres bloody good reasons for that i make no apologys.

[arcade fireman]

2 minutes ago, oneeye said:

She is struggling on the Andrew Neil interview BBC 1 atm, squirming like a squirmy thing. She doesn't seem to have any depth to her manifesto once the surface has been scratched. Labour have a real opportunity........

....next time round. I think Labour have fought a good campaign in a lot of ways but the gap is still 9-14 points. There's only so many voters who will turn. 

But I do think May calling this election wasn't the great idea she thought it was. She could've hung on til 2020, the Tories would've won anyway and Labour would've eaten themselves some more. 

Now the narrative has been shifted firmly away from Brexit for the first time in a year, some real gaps are emerging in her domestic policy and Labour may come out of this election a lot stronger than how they entered it, depending on what happens in the aftermath. 

[DeanoL]

52 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

I couldn't vote for Corbyn's Labour and not just because he does not present himself as a leader but his coziness towards IRA is something I could never condone...maybe some of you aren't old enough to remember that dreadful time , and that is no way meant in a patronising way.

His manifesto has promised so much to so many and still it will be the same as previous  era's, borrow and borrow some more, it didn't work before and it won't work again.

That's fair enough, but it's worth noting Corbyn's spending figures intend us to eliminate the deficit by 2022, and May's figures have us not doing that until 2027, so if fiscal prudence is important to you I'd urge you to look at the actual fiscal policies, rather than just assume Labour will get us more into debt than the Tories - which I'll admit is normally a fair assumption. Just not true this time around.

[thatcrazypenguin]

Just now, arcade fireman said:

....next time round. I think Labour have fought a good campaign in a lot of ways but the gap is still 9-14 points. There's only so many voters who will turn. 

But I do think May calling this election wasn't the great idea she thought it was. She could've hung on til 2020, the Tories would've won anyway and Labour would've eaten themselves some more. 

Now the narrative has been shifted firmly away from Brexit for the first time in a year, some real gaps are emerging in her domestic policy and Labour may come out of this election a lot stronger than how they entered it, depending on what happens in the aftermath. 

They've halved tories lead in a week....tories arent performing well....still 2-3 weeks left....if not a win its going to be a severly reduced tory majority limiting their power, or even a hung parliment. Keep the heads high though. We can do this!

[DeanoL]

3 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

....next time round. I think Labour have fought a good campaign in a lot of ways but the gap is still 9-14 points. There's only so many voters who will turn. 

But I do think May calling this election wasn't the great idea she thought it was. She could've hung on til 2020, the Tories would've won anyway and Labour would've eaten themselves some more. 

Now the narrative has been shifted firmly away from Brexit for the first time in a year, some real gaps are emerging in her domestic policy and Labour may come out of this election a lot stronger than how they entered it, depending on what happens in the aftermath. 

Labour were always going to come out stronger. Either Corbyn does well (a win, or a stronger showing than Milliband) which proves that there are votes behind him after all, or they do miserably, in which case Corbyn goes and a stronger Labour leader comes in.

[oneeye]

3 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

....next time round. I think Labour have fought a good campaign in a lot of ways but the gap is still 9-14 points. There's only so many voters who will turn. 

But I do think May calling this election wasn't the great idea she thought it was. She could've hung on til 2020, the Tories would've won anyway and Labour would've eaten themselves some more. 

Now the narrative has been shifted firmly away from Brexit for the first time in a year, some real gaps are emerging in her domestic policy and Labour may come out of this election a lot stronger than how they entered it, depending on what happens in the aftermath. 

I fear you may be right, too much ground to make up this time around. I do think that the Tory majority will be cut though, which, given the circumstances, will feel like a small victory.

[arcade fireman]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Labour were always going to come out stronger. Either Corbyn does well (a win, or a stronger showing than Milliband) which proves that there are votes behind him after all, or they do miserably, in which case Corbyn goes and a stronger Labour leader comes in.

Corbyn doing better than Miliband has to be based on seats, not votes. 

Because there's been lots of talk he might hang on even if he loses seats and picks up vote %. That would be a disaster. 

[thatcrazypenguin]

I love how corbyns cozyness towards the ira is alwaus mentioned....whats not mentioned is that the tories have a counseller who was an active member of the ira and actually stated she wished death on the uk armed forces at the time (she was suspended from party but then reinstated when the fuss had died down)......or the fact that Thatcher and her team had many meetings with the ira head honchos in secret to try and achieve exactly what corbyn was doing upfront....apparently its ok for the tories but not labour. 

 

Also gets glossed over the fact that the tory party have wined and dined many a ruthless dictator and been guests of many a brutal regieme right up to as emily thornberry pointed out the other day. Attending parties for president assad in syria...same assad who likes to gas little children to death as they sleep.....and let's not even go into their links to the saudis and israel!

 

But no...corbyn....ira....ignore the rest...right. lol

Edited May 22, 2017 by thatcrazypenguin

[arcade fireman]

I don't think a Tory majority reduction is happening either. We have only had one poll where Labour aren't still double digits behind...I would love to be wrong of course. 

[Mr.Tease]

11 minutes ago, oneeye said:

She is struggling on the Andrew Neil interview BBC 1 atm, squirming like a squirmy thing. She doesn't seem to have any depth to her manifesto once the surface has been scratched. Labour have a real opportunity........

She is awful in interviews,it's why they tried to avoid! Can't believe so many people have been fooled by her. She's also a whopping liar- absolutely shamelessly so. Now she's copying trump by lying then accusing the truth of being fake news!

[babyblade41]

I think those that vote tory, myself included never really believed a landslide over labour as when it comes to placing that cross it is never as easy as you think especially if you are not sure.

My problem with labour is they have promised so much and I'm not sure even the hardened supporter could agree that this economically is not justified and not sure realistically where they are going to find this money tree.

I voted for Brexit along with a majority in this country and don't trust Mr Corbyn to negotiate this deal and he might do a lot better if he stopped putting his trust in Diane Abbott ...now that woman is a liability 

[thatcrazypenguin]

Thing as well though....is a fair few wont vote as they arent tory fans but they dont believe corbyn can do it so consider it pointless....if labour start showing strong  as they are expect the fairweather support to come in as well as a boost. If labour show as i believe they are starting to they have a viable chance they will inspire more votes. Then the skys the limit tbh.

[thatcrazypenguin]

3 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

I don't think a Tory majority reduction is happening either. We have only had one poll where Labour aren't still double digits behind...I would love to be wrong of course. 

Multiple polls show labour support rising snd tories dropping.....always go on the most up to date. Latest ones show quite a change esp yougov 

[EasyUserName]

2 minutes ago, thatcrazypenguin said:

I love how corbyns cozyness towards the ira is alwaus mentioned....whats not mentioned is that the tories have a counseller who was an active member of the ira and actually stated she wished death on the uk armed forces at the time (she was suspended from party but then reinstated when the fuss had died down)......or the fact that Thatcher and her team had many meetings with the ira head honchos in secret to try and achieve exactly what corbyn was doing upfront....apparently its ok for the tories but not labour. 

 

Also gets glossed over the fact that the tory party have wined and dined many a ruthless dictator and been guests of many a brutal regieme right up to as emily thornberry pointed out the other day. Attending parties for president assad in syria...same assad who likes to gas little children to death as they sleep.....and let's not even go into their links to the saudis and israel!

 

But no...corbyn....ira....ignore the rest...right. lol

I think it is fair to say that anyone in power (regardless of party) does "wine & dine many a ruthless dictator".  It seems to be the way of the world. 

 

Rgearding the IRA angle - it is a touchy subject for many people on both sides of the argument.  In this case, I would have thought there was a difference between trying to end the situation (Thatcher, and eventually Tony - complete with the "get-off free" letters) and Corbyn, who I understand has previously "taken a side" so to speak.

[DeanoL]

6 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

Corbyn doing better than Miliband has to be based on seats, not votes.  

Agreed

[thatcrazypenguin]

5 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

I think those that vote tory, myself included never really believed a landslide over labour as when it comes to placing that cross it is never as easy as you think especially if you are not sure.

My problem with labour is they have promised so much and I'm not sure even the hardened supporter could agree that this economically is not justified and not sure realistically where they are going to find this money tree.

I voted for Brexit along with a majority in this country and don't trust Mr Corbyn to negotiate this deal and he might do a lot better if he stopped putting his trust in Diane Abbott ...now that woman is a liability 

You fucking kidding me right? So you trust theresa may? The woman can't even get on with her own party  and theres this....shes flip flopped on the issue already.....and yet you trust her over corbyn.....lol id trust corbyn (who by the way has always backed brexit over remain and hasnt changed stance like may) to get a fair deal for all not just big business as the tories will! and not push through a damaging hard brexit noone even voted for!

Edited May 22, 2017 by thatcrazypenguin

[babyblade41]

I think we better agree to disagree on this as our points of view will never be as one .

 

I accept the points you have made as well as you will accept mine , I hope your dreams come to fruition and have a great festival...

[EasyUserName]

1 minute ago, thatcrazypenguin said:

 ... The woman can't even get on with her own party  and theres this....shes flip flopped on the issue already.....and yet you trust her ober corbyn.....lol

 

Isn't Corbyn famous (infamous perhaps) for "not getting on with his own party" over the years?  I believe he's voted against pretty much every leader they have had at one time or another on many issues (even ones with a whip vote).

 

Not that this is important as such, just pointing out that using this as a yard-stick for one person or another (well, MP's in any case) is a touch risky.

 

As for the flip-flop?  I think this is what's causing some angst in the Labour message - it's not always clear that Corbyn actually has the same view as the party, the very view he's trying to sell to voters (at some points this is). 

[arcade fireman]

5 minutes ago, thatcrazypenguin said:

I love how corbyns cozyness towards the ira is alwaus mentioned....whats not mentioned is that the tories have a counseller who was an active member of the ira and actually stated she wished death on the uk armed forces at the time (she was suspended from party but then reinstated when the fuss had died down)......or the fact that Thatcher and her team had many meetings with the ira head honchos in secret to try and achieve exactly what corbyn was doing upfront....apparently its ok for the tories but not labour. 

 

Also gets glossed over the fact that the tory party have wined and dined many a ruthless dictator and been guests of many a brutal regieme right up to as emily thornberry pointed out the other day. Attending parties for president assad in syria...same assad who likes to gas little children to death as they sleep.....and let's not even go into their links to the saudis and israel!

 

But no...corbyn....ira....ignore the rest...right. lol

There's not a really satisfactory explanation for Corbyn fraternising with the IRA in the way he did. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Corbyn hates this country and I'm sure he lamented the IRA bombings. What I do think though is that he supported the idea of a united Ireland (nothing wrong with that as such) and fancied himself as a bit of a radical so became friendly with Sinn Fein rather than the SDLP who were the more respectable face of Republicanism. He could afford to be very careless about his associations as he didn't know he was going to become Labour leader decades down the line.

But now it's come back to bite him in the arse. The other situations are different - the Tory councillor is a councillor. She's not running to become an MP let alone become PM. Thatcher and Blair talking to the IRA is completely different - it was their job as PM to try and negotiate a peace. Corbyn was a jobbing back bencher for the opposition - he had absolutely no role in negotiating a peace. It would be like some random Labour back bencher going over and talking to Assad now. He also voted against the Good Friday agreement. 

And of course the Tories have done far, far worse in the past. But it's Theresa May up for election and not Margaret Thatcher and May doesn't have anywhere near as many skeletons in her closet as Corbyn does unfortunately. 

[oneeye]

2 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

where they are going to find this money tree.

I voted for Brexit along with a majority in this country and don't trust Mr Corbyn to negotiate this deal and he might do a lot better if he stopped putting his trust in Diane Abbott ...now that woman is a liability 

Teressa was struggling in the Andrew Neil interview to explain where £8bn would come from to finance their plans; money tree?

Talking of liabilities, Boris, Hunt are 2 of the biggest clowns in power atm.

The Tory Party are a horrid bunch; remove those rose tinted glasses and take a look around.

[Mr.Tease]

12 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

Corbyn doing better than Miliband has to be based on seats, not votes. 

Because there's been lots of talk he might hang on even if he loses seats and picks up vote %. That would be a disaster. 

I did see a poll somewhere showing that the tory lead in key marginals has shrunk dramatically, which is promising. I agree we need seats not consultation prize voting percentage, but the latter is a start

[jobleakley1]

1 minute ago, arcade fireman said:

I don't think a Tory majority reduction is happening either. We have only had one poll where Labour aren't still double digits behind...I would love to be wrong of course. 

At least the agenda is shifting and labours populist policies are unsurprisingly proving to be quite popular. As for red Corbyn, he has reined in his views and the policies that he is espousing are all about fairness and decency.

Its just a shame that a lot of people in this country are only interested in themselves and don't care about the society as a whole.

The NHS is an amazing thing and should be protected at all costs and that probably means higher taxes which I am more than happy to pay and hope that I don't need to use its services.

The so called dementia tax is just such a horrible policy and she can't even have the balls to admit it was a mistake and denies that her policy has changed. I'm very glad that they are reviewing it, but it's just that, a review with no guarantee that it will be altered.

We just have to trust her, like we can trust her on tax, she dint rule out raising income tax and national insurance, but is keen to reduce it. Where is the honesty and integrity.

She provides strong and stable leadership, which seems to produce a number of bad policies, which she then changes when the going gets tough.

As for immigration, she has failed to meet her own targets even for non EU migrants that she can control, how on earth can you believe that she will keep this promise? She is after UKIP voters that is all. 

A centre left alliance of labour, lib dems and the greens is what is needed.

[arcade fireman]

11 minutes ago, thatcrazypenguin said:

Multiple polls show labour support rising snd tories dropping.....always go on the most up to date. Latest ones show quite a change esp yougov 

Last 5 polls have been Tory leads of 14, 9, 12, 9, 12. Labour 's support has risen but there's a good reason the Tories are 1/18 to get most seats and 1/10 to get a majority. You can get 16/1 for a Labour majority even with the improvement...