Don't vote Tory

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, windy_miller said:

And it appears that Tim Farron just wants to bury his head in the sand and pretend that the Manchester attack didn't happen.

Well I'm sorry Tim, but now is exactly the time we should be talking about this.

I'd just been reading about the same things, and I took it to be 'too soon' rather than 'can't be talked about' so maybe you're being a little harsh on timid tim?

I'm not entirely sure when might be the right time, but the first speech after recommencing campaigning wasn't necessarily the best choice. It was always going to get some flack for that.

[Mr.Tease]

6 minutes ago, windy_miller said:

I'm no way a fan of Nicola Sturgeon, but I have to agree with her on this...

And it appears that Tim Farron just wants to bury his head in the sand and pretend that the Manchester attack didn't happen.

Well I'm sorry Tim, but now is exactly the time we should be talking about this.

Yep- it's like the Lib dem leader saying Corbyn is a monster for saying this now- as if in a few days time something magical will have happened and everyone will be okay.

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, eFestivals said:

I'd just been reading about the same things, and I took it to be 'too soon' rather than 'can't be talked about' so maybe you're being a little harsh on timid tim?

I'm not entirely sure when might be the right time, but the first speech after recommencing campaigning wasn't necessarily the best choice. It was always going to get some flack for that.

I think his hand was forced a bit as the Sun, Times, Mail and telegraph were prepping 'Corbyn is a terrorist ' and is to blame, style stories and opinion pieces (I won't link to the shit article one of those papers printed because I don't want to give it the extra hits!). It's going to make for a very difficult Andrew Neil interview tonight though.

[waterfalls212434]

Something interesting here....sorry to.make you feel dirty but look at this smear attempt on corbyn from the daily mail.......right thats per usual yes? As expected from.that scum.....but now look at the top rated comments.....all backing corbyn and shooting down the mails viewpoint.....bet the dm journos didnt see that coming!, very rare to see even mail readers backing the man http://dailym.ai/2r3U91R

 

Im telling you. The papers can say what they want. But this time the public arent buying it.....and i have to ask...if even daily mail readers who normally detest corbyn will back him on this viewpoint....why can't you?

Edited May 26, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[windy_miller]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I'd just been reading about the same things, and I took it to be 'too soon' rather than 'can't be talked about' so maybe you're being a little harsh on timid tim?

I'm not entirely sure when might be the right time, but the first speech after recommencing campaigning wasn't necessarily the best choice. It was always going to get some flack for that.

The parties agreed when electioneering could begin again.  In my mind, as long as the campaigns are on, they are free to talk about whatever they want.  I see no problem in "political point scoring" over a bombing.  Its a massive issue, and one that needs to be addressed, politically.

Whether Corbyn is wrong or right is another question completely.  I have a feeling he may be scoring negative points from this.

[p.pete]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'd just been reading about the same things, and I took it to be 'too soon' rather than 'can't be talked about' so maybe you're being a little harsh on timid tim?

I'm not entirely sure when might be the right time, but the first speech after recommencing campaigning wasn't necessarily the best choice. It was always going to get some flack for that.

It's relevant now - why wait a few days when the world has moved on a little bit, then the criticism would be he's bringing up things that have already settled down.  Seems a tight line to follow, but one worth pursuing

[Mr.Tease]

1 minute ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Something interesting here....sorry to.make you feel dirty but look at this smear attempt on corbyn from the daily mail.......right thats oer usual yes? As expected from.that scum.....but now look at the top ratwd comments.....all backomg xorbyn and shooting down the mails viewpoint.....bet the dm journos didnt see that coming, very rare to see even mail readers backing the man http://dailym.ai/2r3U91R

Not sure you can read too much into it though- rightwingers tend to flock to the Guardian comments sections, and left wingers to the Mail. We seem to love to antagonise ourselves!

I will say that foreign policy can't be broken down along party lines anymore- left and right winger oppose and support military intervention abroad for different reasons, it's not particularly clear cut anymore- look at Trump, his right wing base were happy about him proposing not getting involved anymore, but now he's done some sort of U-Turn which appeals to other right-wingers. So some of what Corbyn said will appeal to some conservative (and labour) voters, and some of it will appall some right wing voters (and left ing ones too).

[Mr.Tease]

5 minutes ago, p.pete said:

It's relevant now - why wait a few days when the world has moved on a little bit, then the criticism would be he's bringing up things that have already settled down.  Seems a tight line to follow, but one worth pursuing

Yeah, I don't see what magical things going to happen in the next few days that will suddenly make it okay to talk politics. Grief process for those involved will be life long, as will be the impact on others. There's a big myth that grief is a short time limited thing, and people 'get over it' in a few days/weeks/months. 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Yeah, I don't see what magical things going to happen in the next few days that will suddenly make it okay to talk politics.

I don't think anyone's thinking any magic happens, but by choosing to make it the first speech of the resumed campaigning it's hanging a big label on it saying "I'm playing politics with the bombing". 

It's either incredibly foolish or genius. It's very definitely risky.

Edited May 26, 2017 by eFestivals

[p.pete]

20 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Something interesting here....sorry to.make you feel dirty but look at this smear attempt on corbyn from the daily mail.......right thats per usual yes? As expected from.that scum.....but now look at the top rated comments.....all backing corbyn and shooting down the mails viewpoint.....bet the dm journos didnt see that coming!, very rare to see even mail readers backing the man http://dailym.ai/2r3U91R

 

Im telling you. The papers can say what they want. But this time the public arent buying it.....and i have to ask...if even daily mail readers who normally detest corbyn will back him on this viewpoint....why can't you?

Wow, thanks for that.  I fully agree with the sentiment that we all love to antagonise each other, but seeing simple comments of 'he's right' being the most upvoted (4k upvotes) on the entire page seems noteworthy.  Yes people go there to antagonise, but I assume most of the people reading the comments are there because they like the paper (apparently some people even buy the damn thing!).

Edit: on reflection, I do spend some time reading the comments on the gruniad, and most people seem to not like that paper

Edited May 26, 2017 by p.pete

[Mr.Tease]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I don't think anyone's thinking any magic happens, but by choosing to make it the first speech of the resumed campaigning it's hanging a big label on it saying "I'm playing politics with the bombing". 

It's either incredibly foolish or genius. It's very definitely risky.

It is indeed, but I think he was stuffed anyways, so they thought they may as well try to go on the offensive- it'll be interesting to see how it sits with the general public. Whoever is Corbyn's campaign chief/media chief in this election has been very good so far- this will be the decider though.

[p.pete]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

It is indeed, but I think he was stuffed anyways, so they thought they may as well try to go on the offensive- it'll be interesting to see how it sits with the general public. Whoever is Corbyn's campaign chief/media chief in this election has been very good so far- this will be the decider though.

Nah, the Tories have millions left in the kitty to bombard us (a targeted us) with targeted advertising.  Presumably the Cambridge Analitica stuff has already been done to death on previous pages and concluded to be tinfoil hat territory, but that's (other companies are available) where the money will be going.  Money will be the decider, sadly.

Edited May 26, 2017 by p.pete

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, p.pete said:

Nah, the Tories have millions left in the kitty to bombard us (a targeted us) with targeted advertising.  Presumably the Cambridge Analitica stuff has already been done to death on previous pages and concluded to be tinfoil hat territory, but that's (other companies are available) where the money will be going.

Plus their free advertising in the Mail, Sun, Times, Telegraph, Express...

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

this will be the decider though.

Nah. There's too many other bits of Corbyn baggage to be dragged out if (rather amazingly) he's not knocked down by this one, and it's not over till it's over.

But if he comes out of this one well he's probably in with a chance for the first time.

[zahidf]

as much as i doubt his competency, i will say that corbyn has had a much better campaign than May so far. I doubt it will lead to a win or for people to forget his baggage, but is worth noting. 

 

Makes me think May will be useless for brexit negotiations as well

[sjseabass]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Oh look, you've had to resort to making it up again.

And people are welcome to disagree with it.

You don't seem as welcoming back. You are demanding an enforced conformity.

 

That's a different argument.

A Labour govt not led by Corbyn is also possible, if he flukes a win via the big lie.

Come on now, stick to your guns and defend what you said or rescind it, don't deny what's there in black and white:

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

If I convince you I'm right you'll do all you can to ensure Cobyn doesn't stay in position win or lose.

On the second point I'm actually finding it quite refreshing that you've come clean and admitted you oppose Corbyn's Labour and what it stands for regardless of its electoral prospects.

In the admittedly still incredibly unlikely event he wins I look forward to you opposing him in the name of true Blairite socialism. Will be good for a giggle.

[Mr.Tease]

Tories response to corbyns speech might have backfired- even Guido Fawkes implying it was over exaggerated. Papers will likely launch lots of scathing attacks on him tomorrow, then we'll see whether those attacks resonate with the voters or not.  

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Come on now, stick to your guns and defend what you said or rescind it, don't deny what's there in black and white:

I stick to my words.

Which are very different words to your claim of 

4 hours ago, theevilfridge said:

you've said everyone should do all they can to prevent or bring down a Corbyn government 

Too complicated for you? Never mind.

 

 

3 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

On the second point I'm actually finding it quite refreshing that you've come clean and admitted you oppose Corbyn's Labour and what it stands for regardless of its electoral prospects.

Yep. That's because I reckon it stands for one big fuck up and the death of the British socialist strand of politics.

 

 

3 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

In the admittedly still incredibly unlikely event he wins I look forward to you opposing him in the name of true Blairite socialism. Will be good for a giggle.

Not in the name of Blairite, but in the name of the credible and possible and not a big lie.

While you would rather everyone shut up and baaaa'd along like good little sheep.

How come Corbyn's own attacks in the past on the leadership are allowed, but no bad word should be said of the one true JC? 

[Keithy]

39 minutes ago, zahidf said:

as much as i doubt his competency, i will say that corbyn has had a much better campaign than May so far. I doubt it will lead to a win or for people to forget his baggage, but is worth noting. 

 

Makes me think May will be useless for brexit negotiations as well

To be fair, May has not had to do much. The whole Tory campaign is to ignore the party and other MP's and just promote her and the 'strong and stable' mantra.

Labour are closing the gap because the Tories aren't really campaigning. Their manifesto was basic because they know the election is a foregone conclusion and didn't want to open themselves to detail. I expect if they get a bit worried then they'll put some serious effort into campaigning but at the moment it's a case of everyone put your feet up, don't stay anything, don't rock the boat and let May campaign on her own.

My local MP's poster barely mentions the party name. It's a big poster 'Kevin Foster. Standing with Theresa May'.

[sjseabass]

12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I stick to my words.

Which are very different words to your claim of 

Too complicated for you? Never mind.

 

 

Yep. That's because I reckon it stands for one big fuck up and the death of the British socialist strand of politics.

 

 

Not in the name of Blairite, but in the name of the credible and possible and not a big lie.

While you would rather everyone shut up and baaaa'd along like good little sheep.

How come Corbyn's own attacks in the past on the leadership are allowed, but no bad word should be said of the one true JC? 

You're not making any sense whatsoever. You want Corbyn out, win or lose, and think people should do all they can to ensure he doesn't stay in position. The best way to do this, I'm sure you would agree, is to stop him winning and push for him to resign / be successfully challenged. Or if he does somehow win, you'd need to bring down his government. Exactly as I've said.

I've just credited you for coming out and saying you oppose him for his values! You're very welcome to criticise him as much as you like! People can then take their own view  of whether or not you are in favour of the socialist cause on the back of that 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

You're not making any sense whatsoever. You want Corbyn out, win or lose, and think people should do all they can to ensure he doesn't stay in position. The best way to do this, I'm sure you would agree, is to stop him winning and push for him to resign / be successfully challenged. Or if he does somehow win, you'd need to bring down his government. Exactly as I've said.

it would be a leadership election, not "bring down his govt".

As for the rest of it and perhaps the result of my choice of words, you're adding an element totally absent from my own thoughts.

 

6 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

I've just credited you for coming out and saying you oppose him for his values!

I don't wish for him to be leading Labour for a whole bunch of reasons, and any personal opposition to his values within that is waay down the list. 

 

6 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

You're very welcome to criticise him as much as you like! People can then take their own view  of whether or not you are in favour of the socialist cause on the back of that 

Because Jezza represents the one true socialism beyond all critique, and you're the true identifier of it....?

 

[sjseabass]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it would be a leadership election, not "bring down his govt".

As for the rest of it and perhaps the result of my choice of words, you're adding an element totally absent from my own thoughts.

 

I don't wish for him to be leading Labour for a whole bunch of reasons, and any personal opposition to his values within that is waay down the list. 

 

Because Jezza represents the one true socialism beyond all critique, and you're the true identifier of it....?

 

Well I meant it in the sense the Cameron's government was brought down, him and most of the cabinet getting the boot. So we agree there. Although the idea that Labour would survive turfing out the guy who just won the election for them is pretty fanciful. So probably amounts to the same thing.

"The result of my choice of words", haha! Yeah, it's what you said. But if you're now rescinding what you said then fair enough.

I've literally just said people are free to draw their own conclusions on your politics (as they are of mine). Nothing to do with me if you're defensive over those conclusions.

[arcade fireman]

Corbyn not doing well against Neil so far. Neil keeps asking him to link in foreign policy with these attacks.

All he needs to say is our foreign policy may not be the key driver behind the existence IS, but it is a key factor in their ability to recruit people to the cause. 

[waterfalls212434]

Live yougov poll and follow up weighted poll suggest majority back corbyn on this 

 

[Mr.Tease]

I was bricking myself over this corbyn interview,but most say he held up okay.