Don't vote Tory

[stuartbert two hats]

55 minutes ago, Spindles said:

I'd hope that proper PR, based on the successful models in other nations might be back on the agenda in years to come.  I think the bodged compromise that was the AV referendum set us back a few years in the hope for true electoral reform.  FPTP is a bent game.

It was so cynical. The FPTP advocates could point to it and say "there's no appetite for PR in this country". Even though what was actually offered was a right bag of shite.

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, babyblade41 said:

apologies but since when has someone choosing to go and do something for a few days become some kind of political stance... it's ludicrous.  I am  going for the first time and thought it was a place for all people of all denominations etc etc or not ? 

Nah, it's pretty left wing. I know a few Leave voters I went with felt quite uncomfortable last year.

1 hour ago, babyblade41 said:

if someone starts trying to throw politics down my throat they will be told very politely to do one

If they're on the Pyramid stage I doubt they'll hear you. If they're in the Cabaret tent they'll tear you a new one!

1 hour ago, babyblade41 said:

JC wasn't an impoverished child though was he ?.. The house he grew up in and where he went to school went against his parents beliefs .

Politics is just about picking the bits out that equate to your life style 

Not really. There's no inherent contradiction in taking the privilege available to you while campaigning for it to not exist. 

[babyblade41]

24 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

You can always fall back on talking about your dogs- they look a couple of beauties!

I go for the left wing politics, but I feel much more in the minority there now these days- I doubt you'll find much politically that you disagree with unless you go specifically looking for it (unless you don't believe in water aid or Greenpeace), there might be one political speaker giving a 5min talk on the pyramid stage, or the occasional declaration by a musician, but I'm sure you'll manage to survive that.

Thank you , I was wondering what I'd get myself into .

 

Oh and thank you for the comments about my besties... 2 Great Danes, 2 pugs , a lab and  a terrier......who happily live with 20 ducks, 18 hens, 3 turkeys,  3 pigs and lots of feral cats...but having a self funding rescue centre and an aversion to say no where animals are concerned it's an open house 

[babyblade41]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Nah, it's pretty left wing. I know a few Leave voters I went with felt quite uncomfortable last year.

If they're on the Pyramid stage I doubt they'll hear you. If they're in the Cabaret tent they'll tear you a new one!

Not really. There's no inherent contradiction in taking the privilege available to you while campaigning for it to not exist. 

I'm really going to feel out of place then, a tory  and a leave voter , I may be hung drawn and quartered.

Night peeps... I'm afraid early starts are one of the drawbacks 

[waterfalls212434]

Laughing at the `tory` fan above whining because hes worried he may not be made to feel `particularly welcome` at Glastonbury for it.......shame eh? You know you can just avoid talking politics the week if you want? noones going to hold a gun to your head now are they so stop the dramatics eh? However let me ask you something-if you `do` decide to talk about it why on earth should people who maybe feel incredibly strongly that they oppose the tories with every ounce of their being (like myself) not tell you what they think of them and those who support them if the argument arises?  If your adult enough to declare your allegiance and enabling of people like that who many think are an absolute band of selfish soulless w*nkers then your adult enough to deal with criticism that may come at you because of that, people are going to tell you what they think, why should they censor themselves? do you often express opinions in public and just expect everyone to agree with you? 

Anyway ill you who I reserve sympathy for? the people on a low income, the immigrants, the disabled, the muslims etc etc who dont feel particularity `welcome` in this country as a whole at the moment because of the constant fucking scapegoating and attacks on by your band of assholes...and they dont have the choice to `just not talk about it` this is day to day life under this government for them, so please put away the worlds smallest violin eh?

Edited May 28, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[EasyUserName]

4 hours ago, Mardy said:

It's so hard to tell, isn't it? There i was, refused entry to Henley Regatta for turning up in combats, a crate of lager and a Crass T-shirt. Should have been publicised a bit better, I think. Disappointing.

Depends. How did you sound?

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, Spindles said:

I'd hope that proper PR, based on the successful models in other nations might be back on the agenda in years to come.

It's always on the agenda, and has been for at least 40 years of elections to my knowledge.

People choose to vote for the parties who don't have it on the agenda.

[eFestivals]

20 hours ago, amfy said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/11/virgin-care-700m-contract-200-nhs-social-care-services-bath-somerset

Yes ....no reason at all to think that scare stories about the privatisation of the NHS now are any different to those of previous governments.

has anyone been making that point? I've not read it anywhere.

[eFestivals]

20 hours ago, clarkete said:

Again, I never mentioned abolition, you're making up your own discussion. 

So if it's not at risk of abolition, care to say why it needs saving?

Surely what you mean is that it needs improving?

Which might be why I've been pointing out that a line about saving is a crock of shite and the public know it, and why using that line about 'saving' is ineffective?

[babyblade41]

10 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

Laughing at the `tory` fan above whining because hes worried he may not be made to feel `particularly welcome` at Glastonbury for it.......shame eh? You know you can just avoid talking politics the week if you want? noones going to hold a gun to your head now are they so stop the dramatics eh? However let me ask you something-if you `do` decide to talk about it why on earth should people who maybe feel incredibly strongly that they oppose the tories with every ounce of their being (like myself) not tell you what they think of them and those who support them if the argument arises?  If your adult enough to declare your allegiance and enabling of people like that who many think are an absolute band of selfish soulless w*nkers then your adult enough to deal with criticism that may come at you because of that, people are going to tell you what they think, why should they censor themselves? do you often express opinions in public and just expect everyone to agree with you? 

Anyway ill you who I reserve sympathy for? the people on a low income, the immigrants, the disabled, the muslims etc etc who dont feel particularity `welcome` in this country as a whole at the moment because of the constant fucking scapegoating and attacks on by your band of assholes...and they dont have the choice to `just not talk about it` this is day to day life under this government for them, so please put away the worlds smallest violin eh?

and if I do decide to talk politics and come across some idiot like you it's no wonder I won't vote labour.jeez you really are an idiot 

Edited : My daughter is a labour supporter and thank God she doesn't spout off like you do....you must certainly be a minority 

Edited May 29, 2017 by babyblade41

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

you must certainly be a minority 

Corbyn is the most brilliant person who ever walked this earth, and it's impossible not to agree with every word he speaks or to object to anything about him. Anyone who disagrees with any of that is a tory and should fuck off and vote for the tories.

Normally followed by something about how there should be a 'progressive alliance' to beat the tories.

[babyblade41]

honestly waterfalls or whoever he is is half the reason people don't vote labour, he is doing his beloved Mr Corbyn no favours whatsoever.

His whole being is about abusing people who have a different view point to him... it really is pathetic.

 

I'm not very knowledgeable about facts and figures where politics are concerned and have been very interested in the debating on this thread, but when this guy just mouths off abuse constantly it makes him look like a tit

 

I will be interested to see his reply but I probably know roughly what it will be , 

 

As you know I will be voting tory  because Mr Corbyn has promised so much to so many it is not economically possible, he knows that and will not be able to deliver half what he promises and then what ?

The tory manifesto isn't all to my liking but more realistically achievable given time. I'd never trust Corbyn in charge of our defence policies I think he would put us in great danger 

My opinion won't change and although it won't be a landslide victory as first thought I still believe Mrs May will be PM in June ...but if she isn't then obviously my reasoning will be wrong and hope to god I am and if Labour do win then I will have to accept the decision, not ask for a re-count until I get the answer I want 

[Guest]

I think we'd be much safer as a Country. After all Corbyn would probably have the leaders of ISIS and the Taliban in his defence team.

Labour have lost my vote this time around. I can't support a party who's leader and potential Home Secretary are terrorist sympathisers. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Ommadawn

[Mr.Tease]

29 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I think we'd be much safer as a Country. After all Corbyn would probably have the leaders of ISIS and the Taliban in his defence team.

Labour have lost my vote this time around. I can't support a party who's leader and potential Home Secretary are terrorist sympathisers. 

You voted Brexit and are rightwing, stopped pretending you've just found out something that's mad eyou not vote Labour.

Do you really actually believe Corbyn sympathises with Isis? Really? Do you ever take a step back and wonder whether the Tory line even makes sense? that Corbyn is a weak pacifist who also believes in terrorism?

May is a strong supporter of the barbaric regime of Saudi Arabia and which is one of the chief funders and supporters of Isis- fact! Does she do this because she is evil? Because she sympathises with the barbaric regime? or does she do it for reasons of diplomacy, in the hope she can influence them down a better path? That's what Corbyn did with Northern Ireland, and its what the Tories eventually tried doing, and its what blair did and its why we ended up with peace there. try thinking for a change instead of following Tory press tosh.

[arcade fireman]

21 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

May is a strong supporter of the barbaric regime of Saudi Arabia and which is one of the chief funders and supporters of Isis- fact! Does she do this because she is evil? Because she sympathises with the barbaric regime? or does she do it for reasons of diplomacy, in the hope she can influence them down a better path? That's what Corbyn did with Northern Ireland, and its what the Tories eventually tried doing, and its what blair did and its why we ended up with peace there. try thinking for a change instead of following Tory press tosh.

Corbyn's previous IRA stance wouldn't stop me from voting Labour, however it's also not that happily explained away either. He stood at a minutes silence to commemorate IRA soldiers who had been shot by SAS men, and said at the time "I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for a united Ireland".

A magazine which he was on the board on (and in fact written in the same issue) wrote after the IRA attack on the Tory conference (which killed five) "“the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it” and "“What do you call four dead Tories? A start”. 

He has repeatedly refused to condemn the IRA in interviews (see here).

John McDonnell opposed the Good Friday agreement on the grounds that "“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”

Diane Abbott in 1984 said about Northern Ireland ""Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed."

This isn't just Corbyn and his fellow political travellers doing this for diplomacy. Thatcher and Blair - indeed any leader or anyone in a leading role - does the diplomacy thing as it's their prerogative. However Corbyn was a jobbing backbencher MP for the opposition - there was absolutely nothing to be gained from Corbyn engaging in any sort of "diplomacy" - it simply wasn't his role to negotiate a peace and no one involved recognises Corbyn as having had anything to do with the peaceful outcome in NI. 

Ultimately I don't think Corbyn etc did this out of malice, or because they liked seeing British deaths. Or because they hate their country. But they're political stopped clocks, rather than taking a nuanced position on matters they see their enemy's enemy as their friend and anyone who was fighting the Tories and their perceived notion of British imperialism they were happy to side with. 

I'm still voting Labour because despite my unease with all of this it was 30 years ago, I'm willing to accept they've changed their views and I still prefer the vision Labour offer. But no one is really fooled by these attempts to happily explain away Corbyn's past. It's one of the many, many reasons why he should never have been Labour leader and despite the recent poll narrowing, why this election was lost the moment Corbyn was elected as leader. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by arcade fireman

[babyblade41]

3 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

Corbyn's previous IRA stance wouldn't stop me from voting Labour, however it's also not that happily explained away either. He stood at a minutes silence to commemorate IRA soldiers who had been shot by SAS men, and said at the time "I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for a united Ireland".

A magazine which he was on the board on (and in fact written in the same issue) wrote after the IRA attack on the Tory conference (which killed five) "“the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it” and "“What do you call four dead Tories? A start”. 

He has repeatedly refused to condemn the IRA in interviews (see here).

John McDonnell opposed the Good Friday agreement on the grounds that "“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”

Diane Abbott in 1984 said about Northern Ireland ""Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed."

This isn't just Corbyn and his fellow political travellers doing this for diplomacy. Thatcher and Blair - indeed any leader or anyone in a leading role - does the diplomacy thing as it's their prerogative. However Corbyn was a jobbing backbencher MP - there was absolutely nothing to be gained from Corbyn engaging in any sort of "diplomacy" - it simply wasn't his role to negotiate a peace and no one involved recognises Corbyn as having had anything to do with the peaceful outcome in NI. 

I'm still voting Labour because despite my unease with all of this it was 30 years ago, I'm willing to accept they've changed their views and I still prefer the vision the Tories offer. But no one is really fooled by these attempts to happily explain away Corbyn's past. It's one of the many, many reasons why he should never have been Labour leader and despite the recent poll narrowing, why this election was lost the moment Corbyn was elected as leader. 

I like your balanced view, and refreshing .  An excellent post thank you 

[eFestivals]

49 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

May is a strong supporter of the barbaric regime of Saudi Arabia and which is one of the chief funders and supporters of Isis- fact!

Not a fact.

There's no proven link between the Saudi regime and ISIS. There's strong suspicions that there might between individuals at the top of that regime and ISIS (which is not unlike Jezza's past support for the IRA, as it happens).

There are proven links between Saudi and some of the more-Islamist warring parties in Syria, tho those warring parties are often warring with ISIS as much as they are anyone else.

Is May "a strong supporter" of the Saudi regime, or is she ensuring the UK's oil supplies which weapons are (essentially) swapped for, plus the jobs involved? There's more than one answer that can be put alongside the facts (and i reckon the UK would moan a hell of a lot more about lack of oil & jobs than it does about selling bombs).

For the Saudi issues and a whole lot more, there's too much too simple reductionism going on, and pretence that changes could be made without impact. 

If you want the UK out of Saudi involvement, fine ... but don't go pretending it's a choice without consequences back onto the UK.

Edited May 29, 2017 by eFestivals

[waterfalls212434]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Corbyn is the most brilliant person who ever walked this earth, and it's impossible not to agree with every word he speaks or to object to anything about him. Anyone who disagrees with any of that is a tory and should fuck off and vote for the tories.

Normally followed by something about how there should be a 'progressive alliance' to beat the tories.

oh look another cock putting words into my mouth.....if you can show me where ive ever stated that ill give up my glastonbury ticket  havnt you got some more negativity to spread? that of the `we`re doomed` `corbyns crap` `Im apparently left wing but I spend all my time running down the left for no fucking reason other then I want to attract pageviews to my forum` kind of negativity? 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

oh look another cock putting words into my mouth.....if you can show me where ive ever stated that ill give up my glastonbury ticket  havnt you got some more negativity to spread? that of the `we`re doomed` `corbyns crap` `Im apparently left wing but I spend all my time running down the left for no fucking reason other then I want to attract pageviews to my forum` kind of negativity? 

OK, so you don't advocate a leftish alliance and in which case you know Jezza is a dead'un.

And anyone who disagrees with you can only be doing so because of self-enrichment - which you HAVE just said - because of course there's only your view which can be the right one.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why the likes of babyblade thinks you're a cock but doesn't think the same of her Labour-voting daughter?

And have you ever wondered why some who might be attracted to vote Labour (cos they have done at other times) feel they can't do this time?

Oh yeah, it's cos anyone who disagrees with you is a tory. So that's what plenty will do: be a tory.

And Jezza loses, and the poor loses, and the NHS loses.

But your principles are all intact, so it's all good.

[waterfalls212434]

1 hour ago, babyblade41 said:

honestly waterfalls or whoever he is is half the reason people don't vote labour, he is doing his beloved Mr Corbyn no favours whatsoever.

His whole being is about abusing people who have a different view point to him... it really is pathetic.

 

I'm not very knowledgeable about facts and figures where politics are concerned and have been very interested in the debating on this thread, but when this guy just mouths off abuse constantly it makes him look like a tit

 

I will be interested to see his reply but I probably know roughly what it will be , 

 

As you know I will be voting tory  because Mr Corbyn has promised so much to so many it is not economically possible, he knows that and will not be able to deliver half what he promises and then what ?

The tory manifesto isn't all to my liking but more realistically achievable given time. I'd never trust Corbyn in charge of our defence policies I think he would put us in great danger 

My opinion won't change and although it won't be a landslide victory as first thought I still believe Mrs May will be PM in June ...but if she isn't then obviously my reasoning will be wrong and hope to god I am and if Labour do win then I will have to accept the decision, not ask for a re-count until I get the answer I want 

`The tory manifesto isn't all to my liking but more realistically achievable given time`

the utterly uncosted tory manifesto you mean? 

`because Mr Corbyn has promised so much to so many it is not economically possible`

see above, at least labour have a fucking plan! tory manifesto is just black hole after black hole.

`I'd never trust Corbyn in charge of our defence policies I think he would put us in great danger `

you mean hed stop putting us in harms way by backing the americans blindly in their latest attempts to destabilise the middle east? you mean hed stop supplying people like the saudis and negotiating with ruthless regimes the world over? tell you what why dont you ask neutral countries like Switzerland how `threatened` they feel by taking a similar attitude, compared to countries like the uk who have to mess with things to benefit noone but the arms companies and the americans plans for more oul revenue. Need I remind you of corbyns stance on the iraq war at the time? The war which arguably led to the formation and coming to power of isis in the first place? (they were easily able to grab power in the leaderless mess we left iraq in)  maybe if wed been following someone with his attitude at the time we wouldn't be in the mess we are right now eh?

and dont even get me started on the cuts theresa may in her role as home sec and as pm has made to the emergency services, even the police forces themselves have warned the woman of the increased security risk cutting back the numbers of police and anti terror police had on the country and that was before manchester.

As for being abusive, I just tell it like it is, if you dont want people to give you grief dont support a party who do so much harm to so many people, you should be lucky you have the luxury of being able to back the tories without consequence not so for many many people, your party threatens everything from my childrens education (school they go to stands to lose 105k a year in funding by 2020 under tory plans) to our future access to the nhs (please dont tell me the nhs is safe under a party which has so much influence from private healthcare companies many of whom run by tory doners)

This is a battle for our future as far as im concerned and more importantly to me a battle for my kids future and your on the opposing side. I dont care if I hurt your feelings I dont care if you consider me abusive, I will never, ever, understand the point of view of someone who backs the tory party knowing what they are about.

Oh and all I said above was if you dont want to be criticised for being a tory at glastonbury then dont talk politics, thats your choice and thats just common sense...... you cant `choose` to talk about something and then whine when you find theres many who disagree with you.

And your right it wont be a landslide victory, because may is still tanking and corbyn is still rising, if by some miracle the tories do manage to cling to power it will be a severly reduced majority utterly denting their ability to fuck things up via majority vote as they have done up to now. So a win win either way.

[babyblade41]

did someone say something ??? 

[waterfalls212434]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

OK, so you don't advocate a leftish alliance and in which case you know Jezza is a dead'un.

And anyone who disagrees with you can only be doing so because of self-enrichment - which you HAVE just said - because of course there's only your view which can be the right one.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why the likes of babyblade thinks you're a cock but doesn't think the same of her Labour-voting daughter?

And have you ever wondered why some who might be attracted to vote Labour (cos they have done at other times) feel they can't do this time?

Oh yeah, it's cos anyone who disagrees with you is a tory. So that's what plenty will do: be a tory.

And Jezza loses, and the poor loses, and the NHS loses.

But your principles are all intact, so it's all good.

people can disaggree all they like, I disaggree with some of corbyns polices, but im not so stupid not to realise hes one fuck a lot better then theresa may and the labour maifesto is one fuck of a lot better for 90% of this country then the tory one so im not in the process of cutting my nose off to spite my face....unlike some! 

also theres disagreeing and there constant obsessive  slating and attacking over a period of months and months and months, I dont know what the fuck you are if you arent a tory mate because literally all youve ever done on here is run down corbyn and labour....and not just around the general election but everytime the guys name is ever mentioned there you are opposing him, you literally attack noone else but corbyn and labour.....EVER and then you wonder why people like me call you a tory? fucking logic mate simple.

Also I dont give a flying fuck what a tory fan like babyblade thinks of me thanks very much, I will never apologise for attacking people who enable such heartless, harmful w*nkers.

[arcade fireman]

3 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

This is a battle for our future as far as im concerned and more importantly to me a battle for my kids future and your on the opposing side. I dont care if I hurt your feelings I dont care if you consider me abusive, I will never, ever, understand the point of view of someone who backs the tory party knowing what they are about.

And your right it wont be a landslide victory, because may is still tanking and corbyn is still rising, if by some miracle the tories do manage to cling to power it will be a severly reduced majority utterly denting their ability to fuck things up via majority vote as they have done up to now. So a win win either way.

I've left out some of the stuff I don't entirely disagree with (since I am after all voting Labour), but these two things are where you're going wrong. Firstly you don't understand the point of view of people who vote Tory. This is a real problem and means you won't be able to engage in any kind of productive discussion ultimately. I have never and will never vote Tory but I can see why people do vote Tory. Part of the problem Labour are stuck with Corbyn is because there are hundreds of thousands of people just like you who don't understand why people continually vote Tory and how to win some of them over.

And secondly a reduced majority is still looking less likely. Most polls even since the Manchester attack are pointing to a larger majority. It certainly won't be a "miracle" if the Tories maintain power, it will be entirely expected. 

I suspect both of these problems are because you're in a bubble largely of people who vote and support Labour. Your perception of Labour's electoral chances is overly optimistic because you probably mostly read media/social media sources which are hugely in support of Labour, and you probably don't understand why people vote Tory for similar reasons. 

[babyblade41]

2 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

people can disaggree all they like, I disaggree with some of corbyns polices, but im not so stupid not to realise hes one fuck a lot better then theresa may and the labour maifesto is one fuck of a lot better for 90% of this country then the tory one so im not in the process of cutting my nose off to spite my face....unlike some! 

also theres disagreeing and there constant obsessive  slating and attacking over a period of months and months and months, I dont know what the fuck you are if you arent a tory mate because literally all youve ever done on here is run down corbyn and labour....and not just around the general election but everytime the guys name is ever mentioned there you are opposing him, you literally attack noone else but corbyn and labour.....EVER and then you wonder why people like me call you a tory? fucking logic mate simple.

Also I dont give a flying fuck what a tory fan like babyblade thinks of me thanks very much, I will never apologise for attacking people who enable such heartless, harmful w*nkers.

I hope you are not campaigning for Labour by knocking on doors, I'd feel really sorry for the Labour Party if you were 

[Mr.Tease]

49 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Not a fact.

There's no proven link between the Saudi regime and ISIS. There's strong suspicions that there might between individuals at the top of that regime and ISIS (which is not unlike Jezza's past support for the IRA, as it happens).

There are proven links between Saudi and some of the more-Islamist warring parties in Syria, tho those warring parties are often warring with ISIS as much as they are anyone else.

Is May "a strong supporter" of the Saudi regime, or is she ensuring the UK's oil supplies which weapons are (essentially) swapped for, plus the jobs involved? There's more than one answer that can be put alongside the facts (and i reckon the UK would moan a hell of a lot more about lack of oil & jobs than it does about selling bombs).

For the Saudi issues and a whole lot more, there's too much too simple reductionism going on, and pretence that changes could be made without impact. 

If you want the UK out of Saudi involvement, fine ... but don't go pretending it's a choice without consequences back onto the UK.

If you read all my post you'd see I just said that! (that it's not that simple and there are practical reasons for copying up to Saudi Arabia)