Don't vote Tory

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

also theres disagreeing and there constant obsessive  slating and attacking over a period of months and months and months, I dont know what the fuck you are if you arent a tory mate because literally all youve ever done on here is run down corbyn and labour....and not just around the general election but everytime the guys name is ever mentioned there you are opposing him, you literally attack noone else but corbyn and labour.....EVER and then you wonder why people like me call you a tory? fucking logic mate simple.

Fucking Stupid. 

Mate. :rolleyes:

The only logic displayed there is that you don't know what logic is.

 

9 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

I will never apologise for attacking people who enable such heartless, harmful w*nkers.

I don't expect you to apologise to yourself for that but will you attack yourself for that?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mr.Tease said:

You voted Brexit and are rightwing, stopped pretending you've just found out something that's mad eyou not vote Labour.

Do you really actually believe Corbyn sympathises with Isis? Really? Do you ever take a step back and wonder whether the Tory line even makes sense? that Corbyn is a weak pacifist who also believes in terrorism?

May is a strong supporter of the barbaric regime of Saudi Arabia and which is one of the chief funders and supporters of Isis- fact! Does she do this because she is evil? Because she sympathises with the barbaric regime? or does she do it for reasons of diplomacy, in the hope she can influence them down a better path? That's what Corbyn did with Northern Ireland, and its what the Tories eventually tried doing, and its what blair did and its why we ended up with peace there. try thinking for a change instead of following Tory press tosh.

Well, actually I voted Brexit and am leftwing. Why can't you understand you can do both . I've never voted for any other party than Labour. I just can't vote for a party whose leaders have been so supportive of terrorism in the past. Diane Abbott was appallingly bad on the Andrew Marr show yesterday. And to think she would likely be in charge of the UK's security in the event of of a Labour victory sends shivers down my spine. 

[babyblade41]

If labour had a different leader and they got rid of the biggest liability which is Diane Abbott I think Labour could possibly do well, but in all honesty that woman is diabolical 

[babyblade41]

also what my political persuasion is doesn't define who I am, it's just one side of me the same way my 32 year old daughter isn't defined as a person by her own political views.

The trouble is with topics like this on forums is that the face can't be seen and expressions can make a written view slightly different when said in person.

 

It's too easy to verbally abuse when behind a screen and a keyboard than to say the same thing in person.

My apologies to waterfall if I come across as some uncaring person who doesn't give a crap about the rest of the people around me , in reality I do but in a different way 

I suppose with advancing years I see that gentle reasoning is far more positive than waterfalls stance , IMO his way is counter productive 

[Teddington]

20 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Well, actually I voted Brexit and am leftwing. Why can't you understand you can do both . I've never voted for any other party than Labour. I just can't vote for a party whose leaders have been so supportive of terrorism in the past. Diane Abbott was appallingly bad on the Andrew Marr show yesterday. And to think she would likely be in charge of the UK's security in the event of of a Labour victory sends shivers down my spine. 

And I voted Remain and I am Right Wing.

This politics lark is more complex than some on here would have you believe no?

There are decent Tories, scumbag Tories, decent Socialists, scumbag Socialists etc etc etc

Everyone has the right to express their views and debate.  It's the people who are incapable that get a *point/laugh* from me.  I think we know who they are.

 

They are also the same people who tend to use the words "fuck" or "c**t" in every other sentence.

  Obviously this gives their argument more credence and doesn't make them look like knuckle dragging monkeys........

Edited May 29, 2017 by Teddington

[Mr.Tease]

53 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Well, actually I voted Brexit and am leftwing. Why can't you understand you can do both . I've never voted for any other party than Labour. I just can't vote for a party whose leaders have been so supportive of terrorism in the past. Diane Abbott was appallingly bad on the Andrew Marr show yesterday. And to think she would likely be in charge of the UK's security in the event of of a Labour victory sends shivers down my spine. 

Sorry, I don't see how you can be left wing and vote for this Conservative government and what they are proposing. I don't mean that as an insult, but I'm not sure you're being honest with yourself.

If Labour won, I suspect a lot of the old guard will return to the front bench- likely Yvette Cooper would be home secretary.

I agree Diane Abbott was awful and I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea to wheel her out again when they should have just hid her for the rest of the campaign.

I think you're greatly over simplifying the IRA issue, which is a whole other debate about state monopolies on violence, and which had atrocities on all sides (unionist, republican and the British military).

I'm not sure why this issue is the deciding factor for you, but I am genuinely curious! 

 

[snorton82]

1 hour ago, Teddington said:

And I voted Remain and I am Right Wing.

This politics lark is more complex than some on here would have you believe no?

There are decent Tories, scumbag Tories, decent Socialists, scumbag Socialists etc etc etc

Everyone has the right to express their views and debate.  It's the people who are incapable that get a *point/laugh* from me.  I think we know who they are.

 

They are also the same people who tend to use the words "fuck" or "c**t" in every other sentence.

  Obviously this gives their argument more credence and doesn't make them look like knuckle dragging monkeys........

I'm also right wing and voted remain....pretty much agree with everything you have written there.

 

Ill be more than likely voting Tory again, but that doesn't make me a c**t or a scumbag, I just think at this moment in time they are best equipped to run the country. Quite frankly Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell scare me to death, but they are saying exactly what people want to hear and it seems to be working.

 

Why can't people just accept it's a democracy....I know one thing, if Labour win you wont see mass protests and abuse being hurled from the opposition sides as you will if the Tories win.

[arcade fireman]

48 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

I think you're greatly over simplifying the IRA issue, which is a whole other debate about state monopolies on violence, and which had atrocities on all sides (unionist, republican and the British military).

In all fairness, both sides greatly over simplify the IRA issue. The idea that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott frequently spoke/stood in support of the IRA, celebrated the idea of the British Army being defeated and spoke out against the Good Friday agreement to help bring about peace in NI is nothing short of ridiculous. They were fairly minor opposition junior backbenchers for one - not to mention they did far more than just open up a dialogue when you look at their past statements from the time. 

Diane Abbott's answer to the IRA question on the breakfast show the other day sounded stupid and using her hairstyle in comparison was just flippant, but it's probably the only reasonable and logical defence someone can give - that she's simply changed in the last thirty years. Whether people believe it or not is up to them...

Edited May 29, 2017 by arcade fireman

[Mr.Tease]

33 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

In all fairness, both sides greatly over simplify the IRA issue. The idea that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott frequently spoke/stood in support of the IRA, celebrated the idea of the British Army being defeated and spoke out against the Good Friday agreement to help bring about peace in NI is nothing short of ridiculous. They were fairly minor opposition junior backbenchers for one - not to mention they did far more than just open up a dialogue when you look at their past statements from the time. 

Diane Abbott's answer to the IRA question on the breakfast show the other day sounded stupid and using her hairstyle in comparison was just flippant, but it's probably the only reasonable and logical defence someone can give - that she's simply changed in the last thirty years. Whether people believe it or not is up to them...

I don't think it's unreasonable to say your views have changed in 30yrs (I would be worried if none of someones beliefs had changed over 30years!) but I agree the hair thing was a stupid thing to say- probably the last we see of her until after the election 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Mr.Tease said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to say your views have changed in 30yrs (I would be worried if none of someones beliefs had changed over 30years!).

Neither do I and some of my views have changed in the last 30 years. However, I'm happy to admit they were wrong but Corbyn and in particular Diane Abbott can't seem to do this which does make you wonder whether their views really have changed.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, arcade fireman said:

In all fairness, both sides greatly over simplify the IRA issue. The idea that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott frequently spoke/stood in support of the IRA, celebrated the idea of the British Army being defeated and spoke out against the Good Friday agreement to help bring about peace in NI is nothing short of ridiculous. They were fairly minor opposition junior backbenchers for one - not to mention they did far more than just open up a dialogue when you look at their past statements from the time. 

Diane Abbott's answer to the IRA question on the breakfast show the other day sounded stupid and using her hairstyle in comparison was just flippant, but it's probably the only reasonable and logical defence someone can give - that she's simply changed in the last thirty years. Whether people believe it or not is up to them...

Admitting her actions were wrong and apologising might be a good start.

[waterfalls212434]

7 hours ago, babyblade41 said:

also what my political persuasion is doesn't define who I am, it's just one side of me the same way my 32 year old daughter isn't defined as a person by her own political views.

The trouble is with topics like this on forums is that the face can't be seen and expressions can make a written view slightly different when said in person.

 

It's too easy to verbally abuse when behind a screen and a keyboard than to say the same thing in person.

My apologies to waterfall if I come across as some uncaring person who doesn't give a crap about the rest of the people around me , in reality I do but in a different way 

I suppose with advancing years I see that gentle reasoning is far more positive than waterfalls stance , IMO his way is counter productive 

`

also what my political persuasion is doesn't define who I am`

well it does actually mate because to be of your political persuasion (a tory) your having to overlook one fuck of a lot of nastyness that said party brings to the table.... such as the attacks on venerable groups like the disabled, the benefit sanctioning, the cuts to things like the nhs and the education system, the funding and enabling of brutal foreign dictatorships, the arms dealing, etc etc so on and so on..what your doing in glossing over that and giving the party your support is your effectively saying `this doesnt matter to me`...and that is where you as a `good person` and your political beliefs dont line up. You cannot be a good person and a supporter of the tory party. it is that plain and simple, we know what they are, we know what they do, we know who they attack there is no excuse anymore

If your support and enable these assholes your one of them, that is my opinion and I wont be changing it anytime soon. Find me a tory party mp with a fucking human soul and ill show you some flying bacon! simple as!.  I believe what I believe because I believe in a positive future for my kids....not cut cut cut cut cut, every public service down to the bone, education fucked, future prospects fucked, health service fucked....oh and by the way high income tory donors heres a fucking tax break paid for by more cuts!!! 

Oh but its ok! no its fucking fine! because corbyns a terrorist fan and we dont want that!!! please ignore us while we continue to wine and dine countless other potential assads just as we did the man himself before he got to `pr unfriendly` and while we continue to cry crocodile tears over terrorist incidents while we`re still arming and funding the saudis who are KNOWN to funnel supplies and weaponry to fucking isis and other groups as they have the same fucking ideology (one group stones people to death and we call them a terrorist group....the other does likewise and we fund their fucking justice system!...whats wrong with this picture?)

Never mind though, we`ve still got trump as an ally...sure thatll go well for everybody....I mean theresa may is burning every single other bridge we have but hey the donald right! utterly trustworthy! lol

Torys man? fuck em! cant say that strongly enough! fuck each and every one of them and the shit ideology they promote. 

This will be my last post on this topic, ive said all I need to with that last paragraph anyway....I feel like ive got a lot out of my system, normal service soon to resume. roll on the labour government! make june the end of may
 

Edited May 29, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[LifeBegins@What???]

Sorry if already posted but came across this today. 

 

[arcade fireman]

Anyone watching the debate? Corbyn struggled with the IRA question again and didn't really answer the first few questions properly. Thought he answered the migration question very well though - I'm glad he's not just preaching the sort of open borders to all message that people would associate with him. 

[arcade fireman]

The idiot bloke whinging about the VAT on his kids school fees he did really well with too. 

[Mr.Tease]

19 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

The idiot bloke whinging about the VAT on his kids school fees he did really well with too. 

Response to his performance seems to be quite complementary again, again a pleasant surprise, I do get nervous before these things!

[rubenz]

Pax man is getting on my tit's.  Ask the question and then let him answer rather than interrupting you gimp! Any chance of discussing the future rather than dragging stuff up from the 70s.?

[Mr.Tease]

8 minutes ago, rubenz said:

Pax man is getting on my tit's.  Ask the question and then let him answer rather than interrupting you gimp! Any chance of discussing the future rather than dragging stuff up from the 70s.?

Yep, this obsession with 30years ago is getting tedious

[arcade fireman]

Paxman didn't do well. Corbyn struggled by far the most with the stuff on foreign policy and his past statements. He's in step with the public on a lot of domestic policy, he even found a way to articulate the immigration argument well today - something every Labour politician struggles with.

But as I've said before his past actions/statements re the IRA aren't easy to defend. And his non aggression stance shines through too much like with the drones question. All he needed to say was "if I was confident the intelligence was good and more civilian lives would be saved than killed then I could see myself ordering a strike - but we have killed too many civilians with our strikes recently" or something. But refusing to answer that question properly won't do him any favours. 

[Tuna]

Let's see what he asks May. Wonder if it'll be similar to 2015.

[arcade fireman]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Yep, this obsession with 30years ago is getting tedious

The problem is Corbyn doesn't disavow those statements. Had Corbyn come out, said he was wrong to make some of those statements but at the same time defended the idea of setting up a dialogue he could have defused it. But talking round such a position has made things worse.

A lot of voters will struggle to trust that someone who has made these statements standing with the IRA who bombed our country will then want the best for our country. That's why it's still a huge topic. 

[Mr.Tease]

Just now, arcade fireman said:

The problem is Corbyn doesn't disavow those statements. Had Corbyn come out, said he was wrong to make some of those statements but at the same time defended the idea of setting up a dialogue he could have defused it. But talking round such a position has made things worse.

A lot of voters will struggle to trust that someone who has made these statements standing with the IRA who bombed our country will then want the best for our country. That's why it's still a huge topic. 

My issue is, are the tories going to disavow some of their viewpoints and statements and actions from back then, because they backed some awful stuff in Northern Ireland. I hate this simplification that the media are pushing, its complete revisionist history and has completely removed context. Are you a terrorist sympathiser now if you supported Nelson Mandela?

[arcade fireman]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

My issue is, are the tories going to disavow some of their viewpoints and statements and actions from back then, because they backed some awful stuff in Northern Ireland. I hate this simplification that the media are pushing, its complete revisionist history and has completely removed context. Are you a terrorist sympathiser now if you supported Nelson Mandela?

Oh of course the Tories have cavorted with some evil bastards in the past. But two main differences for the electorate - firstly Theresa May wasn't really involved in a lot of them. A lot of the ones in the 1980s were down to Thatcher who is long dead. May has done dealings with the Saudis of course but I think many see this as a leader having to make difficult diplomatic decisions. 

And secondly as far as I know none of them actually attacked or had any intention of attacking Britain. This is probably the most important bit. A lot of the electorate would much sooner see our leaders fraternise with people twice as evil as the IRA as long as they weren't anywhere near attacking us. That's why it's so easy to land these punches on Corbyn. 

[russycarps]

9 hours ago, snorton82 said:

Ill be more than likely voting Tory again, but that doesn't make me a c**t or a scumbag

No, you might just be thick I suppose.

 

[DeanoL]

11 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

Well, actually I voted Brexit and am leftwing. Why can't you understand you can do both . I've never voted for any other party than Labour. I just can't vote for a party whose leaders have been so supportive of terrorism in the past. Diane Abbott was appallingly bad on the Andrew Marr show yesterday. And to think she would likely be in charge of the UK's security in the event of of a Labour victory sends shivers down my spine. 

Why not? What do you think they would do? 

The US elected Donald bleeding Trump and they're doing fine.

We're not electing a dictator, nor even a President. We're electing MPs who will eventually form a government. And if Corbyn somehow were PM was fucking up that badly the members can even remove him. And he can't pass bills without the support of his MPs voting for said bills in Parliament.

And others have mentioned, it's the context of the entire IRA thing - Mandela was a terrorist too. Just now they were freedom fighters instead because history decided they were on the right side. And the notion that we probably shouldn't own Northern Ireland shouldn't be that problematic. It seems right to me. Obviously the way the IRA went about it was wrong but the point behind isn't fundamentally wrong. Which is why Corbyn won't just issue retractions I imagine.

Does it show an error of judgement? Yes, definitely. But then our previous PM fucked a pig on a dare and people still supported him.

1 hour ago, arcade fireman said:

Oh of course the Tories have cavorted with some evil bastards in the past. But two main differences for the electorate - firstly Theresa May wasn't really involved in a lot of them. A lot of the ones in the 1980s were down to Thatcher who is long dead. May has done dealings with the Saudis of course but I think many see this as a leader having to make difficult diplomatic decisions. 

Because Corbyn was politically active back then while May was a banker.