Don't vote Tory

[stuartbert two hats]

Jezza did alright tonight. May, not so much.

I wonder how this is going to affect the polls.

[arcade fireman]

27 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

And others have mentioned, it's the context of the entire IRA thing - Mandela was a terrorist too. Just now they were freedom fighters instead because history decided they were on the right side. And the notion that we probably shouldn't own Northern Ireland shouldn't be that problematic. It seems right to me. Obviously the way the IRA went about it was wrong but the point behind isn't fundamentally wrong. Which is why Corbyn won't just issue retractions I imagine.

Does it show an error of judgement? Yes, definitely. But then our previous PM fucked a pig on a dare and people still supported him.

Because Corbyn was politically active back then while May was a banker.

I don't think you can remotely compare the system of apartheid in Africa with what happened in NI. These Mandela comparisons are insulting to Mandela. I personally don't mind the idea of a united Ireland in principle, but it's a complex issue with the Protestant/Catholic divide and I believe there currently isn't the public opinion for N.Ireland to become part of Ireland which is the main thing really. Whereas white rule in South Africa most definitely was not a complex issue - what happened there was very different. The SDLP also backed a united Ireland at the time, though through peaceful democratic means. Corbyn had little or no contact with them.

I think it does show an error of judgement from Corbyn back in the day - a big error of judgement. Which is a shame he couldn't just own up to it, say thirty years have progressed his views and move on. Until then I can fully understand why big sections of the public (especially those over 40) would have big misgivings about this issue. I'm only voting Labour as I hope he has changed in the last 30 years and because the IRA situation is no longer live. Were this five years ago there's not a chance I'd be voting for Labour. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by arcade fireman

[waterfalls212434]

14 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Jezza did alright tonight. May, not so much.

I wonder how this is going to affect the polls.

that would be an understatement, at numerous points tonight she had the audience flat out laughing at her..not often you see that at this level....not really a good idea to still roll out the `well labours sums dont add up` bollocks when your own manifesto doesnt include a single fucking costing for any policy! she is a moron, an absolute buffoon even more so then her mate boris, proof of that is in the polls, from the utter whitewash being 20+ points ahead in the polls when she called this election to being almost neck and neck and with some tories even saying in the media today they expect to see polls putting labour ahead in the next week or so.....and shes only herself to blame! shes been elusive and cowardly shes avoided the public and more importantly been `seen`trying to avoid the public, shes mixed up her policies so much theyve had to do a complete sodding relaunch of their entire campaign and shes basically shown rather then strong and stable shes actually pretty weak and wobbly, meanwhile corbyn has been out and about speaking to thousands at a time at huge rallys, gathering support espcially among the younger generations, presenting a common sense, lets start doing things a better way message, basically hes been everything may hasnt....and it shows in the publics opinion.

 

[Spindles]

I thought the person who came out of it worst was Paxman.  

[waterfalls212434]

25 minutes ago, Spindles said:

I thought the person who came out of it worst was Paxman.  

thats true, no wonder cameron tapped him to be a tory mp at some stage.....utter bias shown, treated corbyn like a small child, constant interruptions, highly loaded questions which half the time sounded like he was just repeating headlines from the daily mail.....big respect to Jeremy for staying cool and calm through that to be honest.....video of paxman trying to get personal with corbyn below (`thats what you belive isnt it?` he sounds like a fucking tory in the hoc awfully confrontational for someone meant to be an unbiased host of these interviews) great response as well from jc......why is paxman even asking him about something theyve never even promised theyd do? is this about the election or a personal axe to grind with corbyn? tottally unprofessional.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[waterfalls212434]

fuck me even carswell ex ukip now tory, took corbyns side.....thats saying something isnt it? paxo seemed to think this was about him getting his way and getting what `he wanted` answered answered rather then making this an interesting debate based on what the public wanted answered....what a twat,.
 

 

[babyblade41]

I didn't get to see the programme earlier, but there is one thing I can 100 percent agree with Jeremy Corbyn on and could possibly sway my decision is  he's an Arsenal supporter....woop woop woop the man has taste 

 

Sorry got carried away there for a min , my decision can't be changed just jesting !!

 

Waterfalls , thought you said this was  your last post on  this topic , 3 postings ago ??? 

[russycarps]

6 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

I didn't get to see the programme earlier, but there is one thing I can 100 percent agree with Jeremy Corbyn on and could possibly sway my decision is  he's an Arsenal supporter....woop woop woop the man has taste 

 

Sorry got carried away there for a min , my decision can't be changed just jesting !!

 

Waterfalls , thought you said this was  your last post on  this topic , 3 postings ago ??? 

who are you to tell him to stop posting? I'd much rather read his heartfelt ramblings than a single spiteful, hate-filled word from a Tory.

This election is a matter of life and death for thousands of people. It is absolutely sickening to see a vile Tory making jokes about the current situation, and on a Glastonbury forum of all places

Yes everyone is welcome at Glastonbury, but know that your political stance goes against everything the festival stands for and that you will be just a tourist and will never be a part of what makes the festival great.

And this is just my personal opinion: I sincerely hope you realise the festival is not the place for your sort and you never return.

 

[babyblade41]

Just now, russycarps said:

who are you to tell him to stop posting? I'd much rather read his heartfelt ramblings than a single spiteful, hate-filled word from a Tory.

This election is a matter of life and death for thousands of people. It is absolutely sickening to see a vile Tory making jokes about the current situation, and on a Glastonbury forum of all places

Yes everyone is welcome at Glastonbury, but know that your political stance goes against everything the festival stands for and that you will be just a tourist and will never be a part of what makes the festival great.

And this is just my personal opinion: I sincerely hope you realise the festival is not the place for your sort and you never return.

 

really and you wonder why I vote tory  , I'm sure Mr Eavis and co couldn't care less what I vote when I'm paying for my ticket...if that was the case instead of a photograph he'd want my Labour Party membership card instead....

Sometimes I do wonder about people and their thought process 

[Smeble]

5 minutes ago, russycarps said:

who are you to tell him to stop posting? I'd much rather read his heartfelt ramblings than a single spiteful, hate-filled word from a Tory.

This election is a matter of life and death for thousands of people. It is absolutely sickening to see a vile Tory making jokes about the current situation, and on a Glastonbury forum of all places

Yes everyone is welcome at Glastonbury, but know that your political stance goes against everything the festival stands for and that you will be just a tourist and will never be a part of what makes the festival great.

And this is just my personal opinion: I sincerely hope you realise the festival is not the place for your sort and you never return.

 

Utterly vile post 

[mikegday]

8 minutes ago, russycarps said:

who are you to tell him to stop posting? I'd much rather read his heartfelt ramblings than a single spiteful, hate-filled word from a Tory.

This election is a matter of life and death for thousands of people. It is absolutely sickening to see a vile Tory making jokes about the current situation, and on a Glastonbury forum of all places

Yes everyone is welcome at Glastonbury, but know that your political stance goes against everything the festival stands for and that you will be just a tourist and will never be a part of what makes the festival great.

And this is just my personal opinion: I sincerely hope you realise the festival is not the place for your sort and you never return.

 

I can't be bothered to get stuck back into this thread but have to say your post is disgusting.

[mikegday]

21 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

really and you wonder why I vote tory  , I'm sure Mr Eavis and co couldn't care less what I vote when I'm paying for my ticket...if that was the case instead of a photograph he'd want my Labour Party membership card instead....

Sometimes I do wonder about people and their thought process 

Tbh - I don't even think it's even about the ££. I'm sure he'd rather you come, get stuck in, have a ball and leave no trace, don't pee on the land etc.

What's being misrepresented here is that all Tory voters care about is number 1. You can have selfish right and left wing voters and conversely you can have selfless right and left wing voters. Not all Labour supporters are voting that way out of their goodness of their heart, they're doing it because they believe THEY will be better off under Corbyn. Just look at last night for example, May was getting hounded over NHS funding. To then be hounded over her proposal to fund it. Everyone wants everything, at no expense to them. She was also getting pressured on the winter fuel allowance. Why? Because want to see if they'll be the ones who have to foot the bill - and if they would be, they'll vote the other way. 

Corbyn is campaigning on the premise that the richest 5% will pay for everyone else - and obviously the remaining 95% are more than happy to vote for that. I do wonder what would happen if he was honest with the electorate and said we'd ALL have to pay a bit more.

Edited May 30, 2017 by mikegday

[Mardy]

Yeah, disgusting. @russycarps, you should be ashamed of yourself. Disgusting. Not like cutting school meals for kids, decimating social care, presiding over the huge growth of food banks, splitting families up even if they're married, bringing back fox hunting. Why can't you be more noble like that, Russy?

[Spindles]

The thing that struck me about May's performance last night was that it appears that almost nothing in the Tory manifesto has any substance to it.  When questioned almost every response was that nothing had been decided and after the election there would be consultation about what was required for every policy she was asked about.  How many coppers?  Consultation coming after the election.  What cap on social care?  Consultation coming after the election.  What immigration measures?  Consultation after the election.  NHS funding?  You get the picture.

The question is, what actually HAVE they decided on?  In the best part of 12 months since Brexit we've been at a political standstill, the job of government has been almost on hold while we worry about the outcome of leaving Europe and she isn't offering anything in the manifesto apart from the world's cheapest breakfasts and bloodsport for all.

Regardless of your thoughts on politics of left or right, May's government is a rudderless ship being dragged on the tide of public opinion which will give the appearance of heading in whichever direction is most popular this week without ever really getting anywhere.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Spindles

[mikegday]

10 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Yeah, disgusting. @russycarps, you should be ashamed of yourself. Disgusting. Not like cutting school meals for kids, decimating social care, presiding over the huge growth of food banks, splitting families up even if they're married, bringing back fox hunting. Why can't you be more noble like that, Russy?

You could always ask your employer to take a 15% cut out of your wage and direct it to your nearest school or neighbour? If everyone done that then we wouldn't even be having this debate. But I suspect everyone won't, why? Again, everyone wants someone else to foot the bill.

[mikegday]

9 minutes ago, Spindles said:

The thing that struck me about May's performance last night was that it appears that almost nothing in the Tory manifesto has any substance to it.  When questioned almost every response was that nothing had been decided and after the election there would be consultation about what was required for every policy she was asked about.  How many coppers?  Consultation coming after the election.  What cap on social care?  Consultation coming after the election.  What immigration measures?  Consultation after the election.  NHS funding?  You get the picture.

The question is, what actually HAVE they decided on?  In the best part of 12 months since Brexit we've been at a political standstill, the job of government has been almost on hold while we worry about the outcome of leaving Europe and she isn't offering anything in the manifesto apart from the world's cheapest breakfasts and bloodsport for all.

Regardless of your thoughts on politics of left or right, May's government is a rudderless ship being dragged on the tide of public opinion which will give the appearance of heading in whichever direction is most popular this week without ever really getting anywhere.

vs. Corbyn's tactic which is to make out that 95% won't pay. That's why his manifesto has been so well received! Because most people are being told they won't have to pay for it!

The times May has back tracked the most (self employed tax, 'dementia tax', 'winter fuel allowance) has been the times she starts saying who will have to pay for it. That's when public opinion goes against her, again because no one wants to pay for it. It's much easier to be voted in by not saying who will pay for it all OR as is Corbyn's way, saying 95% of the country won't pay for it.

Edited May 30, 2017 by mikegday

[Mardy]

Please don't ascribe your morals and motives to everyone else. Some of us value other things, not just the grasping pursuit of our individual finances. 

[Mr.Tease]

37 minutes ago, mikegday said:

I can't be bothered to get stuck back into this thread but have to say your post is disgusting.

More disgusting than the last tory government cutting disability benefits and driving disabled people into destitution? (while giving an income tax cut to the highest earners) Or the benefit sanctions that drove people to suicide? (while cutting inheritance tax for the richest?). If you kick the crap out of someone but do so politely and apologetically, does that make it okay? 

[Spindles]

The repeating of the mantra of "Strong and Stable" seems somewhat weak when they can't even stick to a policy pledge for a week without a U-Turn.  As for trusting her to negotiate Brexit the same applies: No deal is better than a bad deal...this week.  Until someone suggests otherwise then a bad deal is probably better than no deal, right?

We didn't need an election, we'd been told we wouldn't have an election, the only reason for this election was that they believed that Labour's support had fallen so low that they could capitalise on that and entrench their position with a guaranteed larger majority if they called one now.  I bet they wish they could U-turn on that as well now.

[mikegday]

3 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Please don't ascribe your morals and motives to everyone else. Some of us value other things, not just the grasping pursuit of our individual finances. 

Neither do I. Heck I have no bloody money!! But I'm not so daft as to believe that I won't have to contribute more. I've said this earlier in the thread, if Corbyn came out and was honest with everyone and said right if you want all these things, then we're all going to have to chip in more - then he'd have my vote hands down. But he isn't. He's promising people only the top 5% will fund all this. It's absurd. I'm also in a fight constantly to stop my job going overseas, I was made redundant last year due to it. I worry that by increasing company tax and raising the minimum wage to £10 it will speed up that process even faster than it is already going. After all I'd rated a job that pays me £9 an hour, than no job that doesn't pay me £10 an hour.

[Mr.Tease]

15 minutes ago, mikegday said:

You could always ask your employer to take a 15% cut out of your wage and direct it to your nearest school or neighbour? If everyone done that then we wouldn't even be having this debate. But I suspect everyone won't, why? Again, everyone wants someone else to foot the bill.

Speak for your own selfish self. We all took a 10% pay cut at work last tory government to stop another worker from getting made redundant. NHS workers have all had a pay freeze for years to foot the bill for a bankers induced crisis.

 

[mikegday]

3 minutes ago, Spindles said:

The repeating of the mantra of "Strong and Stable" seems somewhat weak when they can't even stick to a policy pledge for a week without a U-Turn.  As for trusting her to negotiate Brexit the same applies: No deal is better than a bad deal...this week.  Until someone suggests otherwise then a bad deal is probably better than no deal, right?

We didn't need an election, we'd been told we wouldn't have an election, the only reason for this election was that they believed that Labour's support had fallen so low that they could capitalise on that and entrench their position with a guaranteed larger majority if they called one now.  I bet they wish they could U-turn on that as well now.

And what was the reason for the U-turn? Because people thought 'oh s**t! I'm going to have to pay for this'

My point really is falling on deaf ears here.

[arcade fireman]

24 minutes ago, mikegday said:

You could always ask your employer to take a 15% cut out of your wage and direct it to your nearest school or neighbour? If everyone done that then we wouldn't even be having this debate. But I suspect everyone won't, why? Again, everyone wants someone else to foot the bill.

Oh dear. Tories always make this argument and it's always just as stupid the last time.

I personally wouldn't be happy to do this on an individual level because just my contribution would mean I'd be poorer but yet it would have no effect on public services if it was only me doing it.

Whereas if it's done by way of the government organising it through increased taxes it means yes I do lose a the same amount of money but public services do improve. 

And the figure isn't 15%. It's 5% on amounts over 80k. 

And those of us working in the NHS have already taken a 10% pay cut in the last 5 years or so thanks to the Tories' pay freezes. So I'll sooner take my chances with Labour thanks. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by arcade fireman

[mikegday]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Speak for your own selfish self. We all took a 10% pay cut at work last tory government to stop another worker from getting made redundant. NHS workers have all had a pay freeze for years to foot the bill for a bankers induced crisis.

 

I earn £19,700. Is that more or less than you? My own selfish self? I'm hardly rolling in cash mate, home ownership is a fantasy in my position. Like I say I've been a supporter of Labour in other elections. If we're to get anywhere we need to stop bashing each other. I have a genuine fear that Corbyn is promising the world, whilst promising only 5% will have to pay for it. Can you at least stop for a second and acknowledge that?

[mikegday]

Just now, arcade fireman said:

Oh dear. Tories always make this argument and it's always just as stupid the last time.

I personally wouldn't be happy to do this on an individual level because just my contribution would mean I'd be poorer but yet it would have no effect on public services if it was only me doing it.

Whereas if it's done by way of the government organising it through increased taxes it means yes I do lose a the same amount of money but public services do improve. 

And the figure isn't 15%. It's 5% on amounts over 80k. 

^ my point. It's very easy to be well liked if you're promising not to take 95% of people. It's ridiculous. We're not stupid here. If everyone wants some real change, we all have to start realising we ALL have to pay more. Like I've posted I'm no where near earning 80k, but I'm not as naive to think that we can go on a witch hunt of those who do to pay for the other 95% of us. Utter bollocks.