Don't vote Tory

[Spindles]

1 minute ago, mikegday said:

I couldn't possible put a figure on it, but I will promise a full consultation process and green paper before I determine the level. 

Genuinely laughed out loud at that, thanks for keeping it civil when people disagree and having a sense of humour about these things.

[babyblade41]

It would be interesting to find out how many voted in 1973 who have now voted for Brexit this time ? 

[eFestivals]

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

How do you think it will go down internationally if we just decide were not going to pay back anything? If we do just walk away?

Who said we'd do this even if it was no deal?  It's only the tory headbangers who have.

If you watched last night you'll have seen May say we'd honour our commitments.

 

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

Why do you think Greece hasn't done this?

Greece is a complicated issue, but the fact they'd be massively poorer if the quit the EU has more than no relevance.

And as you've mentioned Greece, if the McD/Corbyn take on economics is right, Greece would today be the richest country in the world and not one of the poorer ones.

You cannot artificially and sustainably inflate an economy past it's 'natural' level. Evgen the most highly regarded 'leftist' economists call this 'economics dirty little secret'.

 

Just now, Mr.Tease said:

Do you think anyone will lend us money? What will happen to our credit rating? 

Do you think anyone would lend a Greece outside of the Euro any money?

What happens to the credit rating of a country that prints money without the tax revenues to (re)cover it?

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

It would be interesting to find out how many voted in 1973 who have now voted for Brexit this time ? 

why not firstly consider your own flawed take on things?

Why is the EU 'failing' like you said? What is failing about it, and how will it all come crashing down to fail in the way you said it will?

Or did you just make it up out of nothing?

[babyblade41]

Can I answer your question later...I have to go off now to feed the animals truthfully , running a rescue my time is a bit limited at certain times of the day 

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, mikegday said:

I couldn't possible put a figure on it, but I will promise a full consultation process and green paper before I determine the level. 

I jest. Well if you look at it those earning £10,000 have gone from paying about 10% in 2005, to paying no income tax at all today. I'd raise the tax free threshold higher to say about £13k and then increase the % across every bracket, progressively obviously. I don't know by how much, I'm not an economist.

Me, I'd abolish the threshold altogether (tho with other policies to cover-off the negative consequences in the short term).

After all, you cannot have a socialist society where some are granted a freebie from their social contribution to society, and it just gives the rich the get out of "they're not paying so why should I?"

But would anyone vote for it? Not a fucking chance. The poor want a freebie no more or less than the rich - and it's why we're fucked.

Me, I still feel I can vote Labour, but I totally get where you're coming from. 95% getting a freebie and no negative consequences from a huge re-ordering of society is just impossible.

Edited May 30, 2017 by eFestivals

[snorton82]

9 hours ago, russycarps said:

No, you might just be thick I suppose.

 

I could say equally the same about you, living on the fantasy island of yours

[simian_mobile_mushrooms]

Jesus reading this thread gives me a right downer. Us Brits sound like a right miserable lot 

[snorton82]

2 hours ago, russycarps said:

who are you to tell him to stop posting? I'd much rather read his heartfelt ramblings than a single spiteful, hate-filled word from a Tory.

This election is a matter of life and death for thousands of people. It is absolutely sickening to see a vile Tory making jokes about the current situation, and on a Glastonbury forum of all places

Yes everyone is welcome at Glastonbury, but know that your political stance goes against everything the festival stands for and that you will be just a tourist and will never be a part of what makes the festival great.

And this is just my personal opinion: I sincerely hope you realise the festival is not the place for your sort and you never return.

 

Bit of an arsehole you aren't you really....who are you to decide who Glastonbury is for?

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, snorton82 said:

Bit of an arsehole you aren't you really....who are you to decide who Glastonbury is for?

I tend to like russy's posts because he doesn't hold back, but I agree with your take here.

Me, I'd like more tories to go to Glastonbury, because it might actually open their minds to things currently absent. If it's only preaching to the converted it's preaching to no one.

[jonodillieono]

So it short how was last nights channel 4 thing. I only got to see Cobyn get a grilling over the falklands and whether he'd have he ability to drone strike a terrorist then my flatmate decided she didn't want to watch it anymore.

Who came off worse?

[Spindles]

2 minutes ago, jonodillieono said:

Who came off worse?

I think the media consensus this morning is that either Corbyn inched it with a narrow win or it was a no score draw.  I don't think either party came off badly in the eyes of their supporters, whether they swayed floating voters is very hard to say.

[russycarps]

17 minutes ago, snorton82 said:

Bit of an arsehole you aren't you really....who are you to decide who Glastonbury is for?

 

What part of my statement 'everyone is welcome at Glastonbury' are you struggling with?

 

[eFestivals]

Just now, Spindles said:

I don't think either party came off badly in the eyes of their supporters, whether they swayed floating voters is very hard to say.

My own take is that it swung very few, but probably better-confirmed the position most had already taken. 

Corbyn might have gained a little more by it, tho that'll probably be more about him going first before people got bored with it and switched over to corrie or went to bed or whatever. May's best bit was right at the end, when those who didn't last would have missed it.

[amfy]

2 hours ago, mikegday said:

You could always ask your employer to take a 15% cut out of your wage and direct it to your nearest school or neighbour? If everyone done that then we wouldn't even be having this debate. But I suspect everyone won't, why? Again, everyone wants someone else to foot the bill.

I do payroll giving to 3 different charities - pretty much what you are suggesting I think. 

....and, on half the £80,000 threshold Corby is talking about, I'd pay extra tax if asked to, because I know the country needs it. Not so much me, I don't have kids, I own my house, have a decent & relatively secure job, and (touch wood) enjoy pretty good health - but I get that there are a lot of people out there who are struggling. I wouldn't resent being asked for more, I'd only resent it if I was taxed at the top rate, because people far richer than me can give more still.

[amfy]

2 hours ago, mikegday said:

You could always ask your employer to take a 15% cut out of your wage and direct it to your nearest school or neighbour? If everyone done that then we wouldn't even be having this debate. But I suspect everyone won't, why? Again, everyone wants someone else to foot the bill.

I do payroll giving to 3 different charities - pretty much what you are suggesting I think. 

....and, on half the £80,000 threshold Corby is talking about, I'd pay extra tax if asked to, because I know the country needs it. Not so much me, I don't have kids, I own my house, have a decent & relatively secure job, and (touch wood) enjoy pretty good health - but I get that there are a lot of people out there who are struggling. I wouldn't resent being asked for more, I'd only resent it if I was taxed at the top rate, because people far richer than me can give more still.

[dirty_dog]

so if we end up with Theresa May you can pretty much guarantee we walk away from the EU without a deal, then can you imagine what Donald Trump would do to her in that situation?

flipped over, dry bummed and our NHS sold for peanuts

[snorton82]

18 minutes ago, russycarps said:

 

What part of my statement 'everyone is welcome at Glastonbury' are you struggling with?

 

 

"but know that your political stance goes against everything the festival stands for and that you will be just a tourist and will never be a part of what makes the festival great.

And this is just my personal opinion: I sincerely hope you realise the festival is not the place for your sort and you never return"

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, dirty_dog said:

so if we end up with Theresa May you can pretty much guarantee we walk away from the EU without a deal

Can we? Why?

May is not a tory headbanger no matter what other faults she has. It's more likely that this election is about sidelining her own headbangers than it is about any other single factor.

The proof will be if any of the three headbangers of the apocalypse lose their jobs in the new cabinet - and I expect at least one of them to (probably not Davies, tho). Remember, until now May only had brexit as her mandate so she's had to keep the headbanger-brexiters close to validate her position. That all changes with her own mandate.

[Keithy]

9 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

fuck me even carswell ex ukip now tory, took corbyns side.....thats saying something isnt it? paxo seemed to think this was about him getting his way and getting what `he wanted` answered answered rather then making this an interesting debate based on what the public wanted answered....what a twat,.

Paxman just spends his interviews looking for his next 'Michael Howard' moment; he's dined off that one moment for years. Awful interviewer.

[stuartbert two hats]

2 hours ago, mikegday said:

I don't want the richest to save anything. Your completely misrepresenting my point. Tax the richest more of course, more than Corbyn is proposing for all I care. But also add a few % onto the lower brackets. Imagine then what we can achieve. My point is that he's making promises, whilst promising 95% of people won't have to pay. It's wrong. It's why his manifesto is so popular, probably with the 95% who won't have to pay anymore. But it's also the reason it turns me off, I want something that can be realistically achieved.

I want everyone to chip in more, so we can all get more in return. Don't misrepresent my point. 

Why are you so sure the funds can't be raised simply by altering the balance of taxation so the top 5% pay more? Have you costed it out?

[Spindles]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

That all changes with her own mandate.

Which I'm sure we all hope she does not receive.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Why are you so sure the funds can't be raised simply by altering the balance of taxation so the top 5% pay more? Have you costed it out?

I have, and with a better job than the Labour Manifesto has.

For example (I have others): that claims that a financial transaction tax (FTT) will raise £5Bn a year. 

It gets that number by assuming all the trades that happen with no tax will still happen with that FTT. 

Yet how can it? Most of those trades happen on a tiny tiny percentage profit, where it's worthwhile because that tiny percentage is a lot of money when the trade is for a lot of money. 

A FTT will shave off the first part of profit, meaning that many trades will no longer be profitable (or the risk on turning that profit is greater) and so won't happen.

When Sweden introduced a FTT it turned out to be (overall) revenue neutral in it's first year and then a loss over subsequent years as that financial business migrated out of Sweden, and became a big loss.

I'm 100% in favour of a FTT (tho less so if done UK-only, for the reasons above), but I'm not so daft as to think that changes in taxation don't change behaviour.

PS: the Labour manifesto allows £3.9Bn as a cover-off for changed behaviour via changed taxation - yet that cover-off doesn't even cover this one item if you accept the best evidence (Sweden) as relevant

Edited May 30, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, Spindles said:

Which I'm sure we all hope she does not receive.

but she's going to all the same, and making wild claims about what it means only makes 'the left' look daft when it doesn't happen.

Part of building the credibility of the left is about being credible, and not laughable.

[Spindles]

I wasn't aware I was making wild claims.  I was stating a hope.