Don't vote Tory

[RichardWaller]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Go back to the previous page and READ, FFS.

 

These are the ones I quoted;

4 hours ago, eastynh said:

Who are the thick ones? The lowly educated and poorly paid who felt like they had nothing to lose and voted for Brexit in the hope that their lives would improve, or the supposedly intelligent ones amongst us who failed to convince the apparent thickos that we are better off in the EU?

This whole sorry episode has just highlighted how selfish we are in this country. Those shouting racist and thicko are only interested in themselves, just as the ones who voted for Brexit are.

No such thing as the greater good in this country.

The remainers have had their noses put out and instead of trying to address the route cause they just chuck out insults. 

For the record I am pro Labour and pro EU.

 

4 hours ago, chatty said:

I think people tend to forget a lot of voters dont take an active interest in voting. Most people just want to get on with life so can easily be turned by propaganda. They will just do what they think is best for themselves and thats fair enough but most of the time they are misinformed and end up voting against their own interests. 

The majority of Tory voters and I dare say a lot of UKIP voters arent wanting austerity, bans on immigartion, severs with the EU. The majority will be people who are sick of living week by week and see no future under the current climate and thus vote for change anyway they can get it. A huge gamble and one that may end up making things worse but a lot of peopke feel like they have nothing to lose so vote irrationally. 

The Tories/UKIP etc love that as they are easily manipulated. Doesnt mean they are bad people, thick, racists or c**ts. They just arent politically savvy. 

 

4 hours ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

That one really grinds my gears - a facebook friend, has for 9 months or so been banging on about she was unelected. Trying to explain to him that we don't vote for a president, we vote for a government, was pointless.

Now, he is fuming that there is an election as she has "bigger fish to fry". 

No - he is just worried he is getting what he wished for

 

Were talking about this post? I hadn't quoted it until now.. 

3 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

you should be bashing the tory party but your all to busy bashing corbyn.......and that is why the tories will win the election if any, because of stupid people who follow the media agenda and spend all their time ranting and raving about corbyn rather then `you know` the people actually fucking up the country.

But no im sure its corbyns fault in some way, lets blame him, and god dont vote for him no dont do that! but we still hate the tories we promise and we`ll whine and whine and whine when they get elected while we were to busy sat discussing the merits of Jeremy corbyn to bother challenging them in any meaningful way.

Listen, im no fan of corbyns brexit stance, and im no fan of his apparent lack of want of allying with the other anti tory parties but if you can show me how a country with Jeremy corbyn in charge would be somehow worse for people to live in then a country with a right wing tory party with a renewed majority would be to live in then Ill eat my glastonbury ticket.

The simple answer is it wouldn't, not by a long way, have you seen labours pledges? if even some of them came to fruition it would improve lives massively in this land, so cut the fucking vendetta, cut the personal issues get off your complaining `woe is me we`re all doomed` arses and vote against the tory party. THEN  you can give corbyn stick if he doesnt follow through on his promises eh? 

 

It doesn't say you're not allowed your opinion, but if it's not this post you're talking about I don't know what you are. So I haven't told you that you're not allowed your opinion, I haven't quoted anyone saying you're not allowed your opinion. An apology would be nice.

 

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, cazzatron said:

I think Greens will keep Brighton and no other gains.

Not sure about that. I reckon they have a strong chance in Bristol West.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

These are the ones I quoted;

 

 

 

Were talking about this post? I hadn't quoted it until now.. 

It doesn't say you're not allowed your opinion, but if it's not this post you're talking about I don't know what you are. So I haven't told you that you're not allowed your opinion, I haven't quoted anyone saying you're not allowed your opinion. An apology would be nice.

oh well, I guess a more-than-two person convo confuses you.

Let's move on, shall we?

[RichardWaller]

Just now, eFestivals said:

oh well, I guess a more-than-two person convo confuses you.

Let's move on, shall we?

Suppose it's as close as I'm likely to get to an apology out of you. We're all human, we all make mistakes, some of us are just better at accepting we're wrong when we are. 

[clarkete]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Not sure about that. I reckon they have a strong chance in Bristol West.

I'll give you fifty quid if they do.

[siblin]

53 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

 I don't remember seeing anyone predicting a Tory majority before then.

 

44 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that's because of FPTP ... unless every seat is polled individually, it's impossible to make a fully-accurate prediction on seats. 

And what the polls got wrong was the scottish SNP white-wash (or yellow-wash).  The percentage vote share was more or less accurate.  Brexit polls were out by a small but crucial ~4%.  Trump polls were broadly accurate but didn't predict the swing-state massacre which was more or less considered impossible (and indication of something very unusual happening).

Labour under Corbyn is 20% down according to polls.  Lets be generous and say thats 5% out (unlikely - the inaccuracy usually swings to the right because of shy tories/conservatives/racists/nationalists who are embarrassed to state in public how they vote) it still amounts to 15% down in polls and decimation for Labour

13 minutes ago, cazzatron said:

Its obvious which way this is going to go, and labour doesn't stand a chance with Jezza in charge. This isn't Corbyn bashing, its just the truth. My two cents (for what its worth) is that lib dems will split the vote even more from labour, and tories will have some small gains on their target seats.

I'll be interested to watch what happens with the vote percentages for SNP, UKIP and Lib Dems. I think Greens will keep Brighton and no other gains.

If Labour gain any seats it'll be due to some outstanding local candidate, or perhaps in Scotland where they have nothing to lose and might pick up some anti-referendum votes.  They will lose plenty of seats its just a matter of how many.

Lib dems I think stand to make gains in London due to being the only anti-brexit/soft-brexit campaigners.  This would be interesting as that's not been a traditional stronghold for them.  It could also amount to Labour losing london seats if they dont come up with a good european policy sharpish (right now its a confused "accept the will of the people" message).  Lib dems in the south west is a complete unknown.  There will be less of the anti-clegg protest of 2015, but the pro-europe message may not go down well.  My suspicion is they wont make many gains in the south west.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, RichardWaller said:

Suppose it's as close as I'm likely to get to an apology out of you. We're all human, we all make mistakes, some of us are just better at accepting we're wrong when we are. 

I have nothing to apologise for. My posts flow from previous posts.

Just because you've decided AFTER jumping in on other people's comments that it was a super-special conversation of just you and me (despite you jumping in on others comments) doesn't make your own inability to follow a conversation of more than 2 people my error.

[mjsell]

3 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I'll give you fifty quid if they do.

I'll take that! They have a very good chance.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, clarkete said:

I'll give you fifty quid if they do.

off the back of your previous posts I'm guessing you're thinking the paedo-justifier LibDem is back in with a chance?

You might be right, but they were trailing the Greens 2 years ago, so i reckon if there's a change it's going to the greens and not libdems.

[RichardWaller]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I have nothing to apologise for. My posts flow from previous posts.

Just because you've decided AFTER jumping in on other people's comments that it was a super-special conversation of just you and me (despite you jumping in on others comments) doesn't make your own inability to follow a conversation of more than 2 people my error.

Fuck me, I thought it'd be beneath you... Two of the people I replied to haven't replied, one did and that looks like it's ended in agreeing to disagree. It is possible, you know. You've replied to everything else I've posted and you're being silly now.

Look, just accept it. You were wrong. I didn't make the mistake, you did. Own it, accept it, apologise for it. My ability to follow a conversation has absolutely nothing to do with you putting words into my mouth. As far as mods go, you're not great.

[uscore]

Bristol West used to be where I lived (now in Bristol North),  and I reckon the greens have got a strong chance. I think they are really going to push for it.  A lot of the areas in that constituency vote Green in the locals.

[siblin]

1 hour ago, ivan said:

She is my neighbouring MP and I have a female MP in Mary Creagh.

Personally I would go with Mary , Yvette needs to spend more time keeping Ed under control !

I often have a similar issue when it comes to taming my Balls.

[clarkete]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You might be right, but they were trailing the Greens 2 years ago, so i reckon if there's a change it's going to the greens and not libdems.

I don't care who wins.  But this place is clearly a millstone around your neck and you could do with a few quid

 

In reality, I don't know why you could think that the green support would be higher than 2015, where it was at a massive peak. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_West_(UK_Parliament_constituency

Indeed I know plenty of folks who voted for them then, who won't vote for them now. 

I have no idea who is standing for the LD this time, presumably not Williams as he's up for metro mayor.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by clarkete

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Fuck me, I thought it'd be beneath you... Two of the people I replied to haven't replied, one did and that looks like it's ended in agreeing to disagree. It is possible, you know. You've replied to everything else I've posted and you're being silly now.

Look, just accept it. You were wrong. I didn't make the mistake, you did. Own it, accept it, apologise for it. My ability to follow a conversation has absolutely nothing to do with you putting words into my mouth. As far as mods go, you're not great.

I was wrong? With what, exactly?

You say I've accused you of saying something.

That's YOUR error.

I made a statement, to point out that opinion is allowed, because someone said that criticism of Corbyn shouldn't be happening, that I posted back to to say there's naff all wrong with fair comment, and then you jumped in.

If you think I'm having just a personal conversation with you, sorry to tell you, you're not that special. It's like a convo round a table at a pub, and you need to follow the conversation to understand it.

FFS.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, clarkete said:

In reality, I don't know why you could think that the green support would be higher than 2015, where it was at a massive peak. 

I suggest a quick walk round the streets of Easton, or elsewhere, and play "spot the political poster".

There's a tenner if you can find a single LibDems one.

And I've seen plenty of Labour ones come down in recent weeks, too.

 

2 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Indeed I know plenty of folks who voted for them then, who won't vote for them now. 

Really? Why? How the greens less votable now than 2 years ago?

Rumour has it (from Thangam) that Bristol West had the strongest remain vote in the country. I can't see the Labour vote holding up very well, tho there's stuff she can do to help it hold up (she's not definitely lost my vote - yet).

 

2 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I have no idea who is standing for the LD this time, presumably not Williams as he's up for metro mayor.

as that gets to show, he's a gravy-trainer, so he'll be in for it if he can be.

[russycarps]

50 minutes ago, Stu H said:

One person's rudderless hard Brexit or mining industry demise is another man's Iraq War or housing market and banking industry collapse.

I've always been uncomfortable with the notion there is a 'good and a 'bad' side per se. People choose their politics for all manner or reasons. In my time, I've voted for 4 different parties, I've tactically voted and I've also spoilt my ballot paper. It's my choice to do all of those things or none of those things.

My particular concern with modern politics (one of many!) is that many people are no longer one side or the other, they're a mix of policies from both and ultimately feel forced to make a choice of one. Parties I have voted for in the past have ended up cocking up all manner of things and I have a deep level of discomfort about that. But I feel I have to put my X in the box somewhere.

If one of those 4 is the tories you're either very wealthy, thick or a c**t.

Which is it?

 

[clarkete]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Really? Why? How the greens less votable now than 2 years ago?

Rumour has it (from Thangam) that Bristol West had the strongest remain vote in the country. I can't see the Labour vote holding up very well, tho there's stuff she can do to help it hold up (she's not definitely lost my vote - yet).

I don't believe they are, but they didn't manage it two years ago and that was a phenomenal peak for them in Bristol West, a massive increase from their previous results. 

If they manage it, I'll be happy to give you the dough.

[RichardWaller]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I was wrong? With what, exactly?

You say I've accused you of saying something.

That's YOUR error.

I made a statement, to point out that opinion is allowed, because someone said that criticism of Corbyn shouldn't be happening, that I posted back to to say there's naff all wrong with fair comment, and then you jumped in.

If you think I'm having just a personal conversation with you, sorry to tell you, you're not that special. It's like a convo round a table at a pub, and you need to follow the conversation to understand it.

FFS.

Have you always been this antagonistic? Here we go... You replied to me saying this

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Yes, it's an opinion, just like you trying to knock my opinion down with your opinion is your opinion.

However, i'm referencing the facts of what polling is showing. I'm not knocking him down on the basis of nothing while you're trying to make him stand up on the basis of nothing.

Feel free to disagree with my opinion. Don't tell me I'm not allowed to express an opinion.

Then you quoted me...

2 hours ago, RichardWaller said:

Tell me where I've said you're not allowed to express opinion?

and replied..

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

someone did, I answered back and then you jumped in on what I answered back to.

If you jump in on someone's words as you did, you're picking up on what i've said to their words.

 

This "someone" was nobody that I quoted, I wasn't "picking up" any words saying you weren't allowed an opinon... We established that, or at least I thought we had. When you quote one person and tell them "don't tell me I'm not allowed to express an opinion", they're going to think it's directed at them whether it makes sense or not. If you're sat around a table in the pub, looking one person in the face and talking, the bloke behind you isn't going to assume you're talking to them. 

It's not the first time you've accused me of saying something I haven't and I don't think it'll be the last either. You've backed yourself into a corner, you won't back down, you're standing by your lie and blaming me for it and you're telling me that I'm incapable of following a conversation and that I'm nowt special. When in doubt, get personal. 

[siblin]

Just now, clarkete said:

I don't believe they are, but they didn't manage it two years ago and that was a phenomenal peak for them in Bristol West, a massive increase from their previous results. 

If they manage it, I'll be happy to give you the dough.

or it just needs a moderate drop in Labour support.  What we've already seen since 2015 would be more than enough

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I don't believe they are, but they didn't manage it two years ago and that was a phenomenal peak for them in Bristol West, a massive increase from their previous results. 

If they manage it, I'll be happy to give you the dough.

I'm pretty sure labour are going to lose votes cos of Jezza backing brexit.

Which means the votes will either go to the libdems or the greens - with the greens most likely, I think, to be the beneficiaries.

Personally I'm not inclined to give them my vote, but I feel much the same with Labour and the libdems too. But I am going to vote for one of those parties, to register a not-tory vote - so it depends what happens from here for which gets it.

Edited April 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

This "someone" was nobody that I quoted

It doesn't matter. It's a public forum, with an ongoing convo of more than just you and me.

Someone posted (paraphrased) "opinion not allowed".
I posted something back.
you posted to my post.
I posted again.

That "I posted again" post quoted you, but was a continuation of the ongoing conversation from before you stepped in, because you stepped in on the very response I made back to "opinion not allowed".

It was a conversation involving more than just you. Got it? 

FFS.

Edited April 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[siblin]

6 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I don't believe they are, but they didn't manage it two years ago and that was a phenomenal peak for them in Bristol West, a massive increase from their previous results. 

If they manage it, I'll be happy to give you the dough.

To emphasise this is UKpollingreports swingometer.  Its not without its problems as its based on a national swing rather than per-consituency swing, but at polling levels similar to what they are today it predicts a 3 way contest, with greens more than possible to get the seat.  Admittedly i've gone for a pretty low support for labour, but its more than possible at a constituency level.

Worryingly at these figures this Green seat would be the only non-tory voice in England anywhere south of birmingham and west of oxford :/

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, siblin said:

Worryingly at these figures this Green seat would be the only non-tory voice in England anywhere south of birmingham and west of oxford :/

That's unlikely I reckon.

For example, Bath looks like a strong LibDem possibility. I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they regained more than one of the seats they lost to the tories further into the SW too.

[CajunMoon]

[Respectfatfrog]

46 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Fuck me, I thought it'd be beneath you... Two of the people I replied to haven't replied, one did and that looks like it's ended in agreeing to disagree. It is possible, you know. You've replied to everything else I've posted and you're being silly now.

Look, just accept it. You were wrong. I didn't make the mistake, you did. Own it, accept it, apologise for it. My ability to follow a conversation has absolutely nothing to do with you putting words into my mouth. As far as mods go, you're not great.

Out of order I'm not Neil's biggest fan (no offense mate) but I respect the fact he runs this service for us and allows you to have this debate have a pop at his opinions by all means but don't knock how he runs this site he does a cracking job.