Football 17/18

[The Nal]

Well he has the same ish stats (stats, I know, urgh) as Juan Mata in the Prem. 

PC - 152 games, 41 goals, 35 assists. 

JM - 151 games, 42 goals, 33 assists. 

Great price for him. You can't turn down 142m or whatever for a player like that. Hes no Suarez. 

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Liverpool fans are of course trying to talk down the consequences of losing Coutinho, but there's still a couple of interesting things amongst what they've been saying...

1. liverpool's win-rate is nearly twice as good when Coutinho doesn't play.

2. that Coutinho might be the sort of player who turns a 2-0 win into a 4-0 win, but doesn't turn a draw into a win.

It'll be interesting to see how it works out with the addition of VVD and loss of Coutinho, as to whether that makes them a better team overall. It doesn't see impossible that it might do.

Im not 100% sure that first stat is right. wasnt it more last season the win rate increased when Mane was in the team?

 

Its a loss but the player wanted to go and its a lot of money to say no too (altough half has already gone on VVD)

Mane has been off the pace this season and Salah is injured for a few weeks. And firmino may have a ban coming soon. So i think they may have some issues without Phil!

[eFestivals]

37 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Isnt it just the win rate this season. I read since he signed however the win rate with and without him is pretty much identical.

not sure, I haven't checked it - but it cropped up a lot, so I guess someone has.

[Wooderson]

LFC. Selling club.

Zero logical basis to part company this month.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Wooderson said:

Zero logical basis to part company this month.

apart from Phil wanting out, of course.

However good the player there becomes a point where it's better to move on, and perhaps - with the rest of the team going well but the title out of sight - they'd reached that point. Who knows?

It's a problem Liverpool are going to have to live with - like Liverpool keep making soton live with it - until they properly re-establish themselves as proper title contenders (by winning a title).

And if they're now a selling club (tho VVD & Keita implies ambition) then being the new arsenal who can turn a profit while being at the top end of things isn't a particularly bad place to be.

[ThomThomDrum]

43 minutes ago, zahidf said:

And firmino may have a ban coming soon........

Id be very surprised if that happens. I dont actually think what Holgate claims to have been said was in fact said 

There should probably be a threat of a ban for Holgate if the allegations prove to be false. Sure there is an argument he should have be off the pitch anyway after pushing Firmino off the pitch and laying hands on the ref.......... 

[thetime]

5 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

Id be very surprised if that happens. I dont actually think what Holgate claims to have been said was in fact said 

There should probably be a threat of a ban for Holgate if the allegations prove to be false. Sure there is an argument he should have be off the pitch anyway after pushing Firmino off the pitch and laying hands on the ref.......... 

If Holgate has told a porkie, he should be banned as long as the racist charge would bring. 

[ThomThomDrum]

25 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

 

Zero logical basis to part company this month.

He must really really not want to play there. I would have thought LFC were in a very strong position to say we do the deal now with Barca, in Jan, papers all signed and sealed,  but he does not actually go until the Summer. Everyone happy out getting what they want. Barca dont need him till then really, so they shouldnt mind that much one would have thought. So it must be his driving motivation. 

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by ThomThomDrum

[Lad]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

apart from Phil wanting out, of course.

However good the player there becomes a point where it's better to move on, and perhaps - with the rest of the team going well but the title out of sight - they'd reached that point. Who knows?

It's a problem Liverpool are going to have to live with - like Liverpool keep making soton live with it - until they properly re-establish themselves as proper title contenders (by winning a title).

And if they're now a selling club (tho VVD & Keita implies ambition) then being the new arsenal who can turn a profit while being at the top end of things isn't a particularly bad place to be.

Its a shit place to be in.Spreadsheet Rovers supported by worldwide bellendery.Yippeee another 4th place just think of all the money.FSG have increased the value of their asset x 4,have a derisory net spend and spend less than money generated by tv,merchandise,ticket sales,corporate ect.Don't see what having wealthy owners means if they only spend internal generated money.We may as well be fan owned.

Plenty of people have accepted that were only a franchise money spinner.

[ThomThomDrum]

4 minutes ago, thetime said:

If Holgate has told a porkie, he should be banned as long as the racist charge would bring. 

Very much agree

He defo told the ref Firmino used a racial slur. The ref, who at the time was standing between both players, told Holgate he did not hear that. Id personally be surprised if someone didn't pick up on such a thing standing where he was standing, even if not intently listening to what they were saying to each other. It kinda stands out from other speech........... 

Edited January 8, 2018 by ThomThomDrum

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, Lad said:

Its a shit place to be in.Spreadsheet Rovers supported by worldwide bellendery.Yippeee another 4th place just think of all the money.FSG have increased the value of their asset x 4,have a derisory net spend and spend less than money generated by tv,merchandise,ticket sales,corporate ect.Don't see what having wealthy owners means if they only spend internal generated money.We may as well be fan owned.

Plenty of people have accepted that were only a franchise money spinner.

it might be shit, but it's not as shit as the G & H days.

On money terms they're never going to be competing with the bottomless pockets of city and chelsea. Get used to it.

But like i say, I don't think it's only about that anyway. A world record fee for a defender (and by a long way) shows that it's not only about picking players up on the cheap and selling them on, it's about building the right team.

[lost]

If the FA came out and effectively said a black person should be 100% sure they have been racially abused or keep their mouth shut.. seriously twitter would explode in a way that would make metoo look like a minor story. The FA is in a lose lose position with this. There doesn't seem to be any tape of what was said when kenny's head covers the camera. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by lost

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

If the FA came out and effectively said a black person should be 100% sure they have been racially abused or keep their mouth shut.. seriously twitter would explode in a way that would make metoo look like a minor story. The FA is in a lose lose position with this. There doesn't seem to be any tape of what was said when kenny's head covers the camera. 

yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens cos even if there was no racial abuse, it's quite possible that Holgate genuinely thinks there was (cos he misheard or misunderstood, whatever).

The easy way out for the FA is to deem Firmino guilty.

[Lad]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it might be shit, but it's not as shit as the G & H days.

On money terms they're never going to be competing with the bottomless pockets of city and chelsea. Get used to it.

But like i say, I don't think it's only about that anyway. A world record fee for a defender (and by a long way) shows that it's not only about picking players up on the cheap and selling them on, it's about building the right team.

I've just said that most people have accepted the situation and have known for years.These are as bad as H&G but managed to buy the club at a sham bat price.I couldn't stand them but they were right to call it an epic swindle by RBS.You can't build a team by selling all your best players.Can anyone doubt that the vvd sale went through because they already had it covered with the upcoming transfer of Coutinho?Salah will probably be next.They don't need to build any team to make plenty of money.Even CL isn't  necessary with the mad money coming in from tv.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Lad

[Dan R]

2 minutes ago, Lad said:

I've just said that most people have accepted the situation and have known for years.These are as bad as H&G but managed to buy the club at a sham bat price.I couldn't stand them but they were right to call it an epic swindle by RBS.You can't build a team by selling all your best players.Can anyone doubt that the vvd sale went through because they already had it covered with the upcoming transfer of Coutinho?Salah will probably be next.

Reports saying that FSG backed Klopp if he wanted to keep Coutinho around but Klopp only wants players who want to be at the club. So the deal made sense from a business prospective and they backed the manager for the football side then I don't see what more to expect from them. If they've already spent the money on VVD then they probably saved some by getting it done before the cash influx.

And you clearly don't remember the trouble Liverpool were in under H&G. There was a very real possibility of going the way Leeds did a few years before. I'm no big fan of FSG but some people are desperate to hate them because they don't spend as much as Man City.

[Lad]

47 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens cos even if there was no racial abuse, it's quite possible that Holgate genuinely thinks there was (cos he misheard or misunderstood, whatever).

The easy way out for the FA is to deem Firmino guilty.

Remember the Tom Adeyemi non incident.He cried a river, the club issued a heartbroken apology,loads of opinion pieces full of handwringing shit-all about something that never even happened.The lad who got arrested would probably have got jail.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Lad

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, Lad said:

You can't build a team by selling all your best players.

ultimately, they have to accept what the player wants. If they held a player to his contract that would just mean players would swerve them in the future.

It's how it is for just about every club.   

They might not be the moneybag owners you'd like them to be to compete with city, but they've taken the club forwards on the pitch and with the stadium.

[The Nal]

 

[Lad]

20 minutes ago, Dan R said:

Reports saying that FSG backed Klopp if he wanted to keep Coutinho around but Klopp only wants players who want to be at the club. So the deal made sense from a business prospective and they backed the manager for the football side then I don't see what more to expect from them. If they've already spent the money on VVD then they probably saved some by getting it done before the cash influx.

And you clearly don't remember the trouble Liverpool were in under H&G. There was a very real possibility of going the way Leeds did a few years before. I'm no big fan of FSG but some people are desperate to hate them because they don't spend as much as Man City.

I tended to remember the H&G days with going on protest marches about them.That and being a season ticket holder then and now.Its you that doesn't understand the situation and its got nothing to do with spending money like City.Nobody expects that.They bought an underpriced asset and are happy to fund everything through things that they've done nothing to create.They don't need to win anything before they sell their asset and make a great profit.Why you imagine they give a shit about the club (franchise)only you knows.

[Gnomicide]

32 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens cos even if there was no racial abuse, it's quite possible that Holgate genuinely thinks there was (cos he misheard or misunderstood, whatever).

This is what I think has actually happened. I'm trying not to be partisan and want to see what comes out of the investigation rather than rely on the sudden influx of people who can lip read in Portuguese. I've no idea if he is racist or not, though i find it difficult to think he is but whatever his actual views, I just can't see him screaming something racist at Holgate while the ref was standing between them. 

 

[Wooderson]

Firmino is “guilty” already as you can tell from the shite spewed on here. 

[Lad]

12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

ultimately, they have to accept what the player wants. If they held a player to his contract that would just mean players would swerve them in the future.

It's how it is for just about every club.   

They might not be the moneybag owners you'd like them to be to compete with city, but they've taken the club forwards on the pitch and with the stadium.

Keep hearing about this City spending thing and I keep saying nobody thinks that we can spend as much,certainly not me.Taking the club forward would mean winning trophies and not treading water to fund their dividends.We had to do another protest about ticket prices but its been specifically said theyre going up soon.We'll see how the season goes.

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

This is what I think has actually happened. I'm trying not to be partisan and want to see what comes out of the investigation rather than rely on the sudden influx of people who can lip read in Portuguese. I've no idea if he is racist or not, though i find it difficult to think he is but whatever his actual views, I just can't see him screaming something racist at Holgate while the ref was standing between them. 

Me too - as well as the ref not hearing it.

The Portuguese lip-reading geniuses make me laugh tho, and I haven't been daft enough to absolutely-believe it ... tho I suspect it's more likely right than not.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Lad said:

Keep hearing about this City spending thing and I keep saying nobody thinks that we can spend as much,certainly not me.Taking the club forward would mean winning trophies and not treading water to fund their dividends.We had to do another protest about ticket prices but its been specifically said theyre going up soon.We'll see how the season goes.

so c'mon genius, what should they have done about Phil when he wanted out so strongly?

As i say, they could have held him to his contract, but that would affect their ability to attract similar great players in the future.

And at the moment Phil goes out, in comes a player who's done all the same things - and more - to get his upgrade transfer, absolutely no differently. 

It's how football is, it's not how Liverpool are.

[lost]

The Holgate thing is basically another Ched Evens. All the Sheff Utd fans were convinced he's innocent whilst supporters of other teams and those who think rape allegations are not taken seriously think he's guilty. Neither will change their position whilst the only two people that know what went on are the ones in that hotel room.