Football 17/18

[CRW5252]

3 hours ago, jyoung said:

I've never met anyone who owns a non league football jersey and some short term higher attendances really won't help the club long term. If you look at the recent history of clubs going into administration and liquidation, it usually comes from two things...

1. Dodgy owner
2. Dodgy owner spending too much on players club can't afford

I own one and I know a fair few others who do but that is kind of beyond the point. The shirt sales will increase comparative to before. 

You need to include Harry Rednapp being your manager on that list as well but seriously of course spending beyond your means is a bad idea. If they can afford top players (for their level) like Pennant and O'Hara then why not? I guess it all rests on whether the owner can afford what he spends.

[CRW5252]

43 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I would disagree (certainly in the lower leagues) that there have been more successes than failures. A lot of the failures don't make the news. Also I don't think any changes in match attendance or shirt sales will be significant. That club is going to be running at a huge loss and it depends whether the owner is happy to take that loss on.

I disagree. I would argue the opposite. The media love a failure.

Most clubs that go in liquidation at low levels are due to low attendance figures. It's their main source of income (directly and indirectly). 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, CRW5252 said:

I own one and I know a fair few others who do but that is kind of beyond the point. The shirt sales will increase comparative to before. 

You need to include Harry Rednapp being your manager on that list as well but seriously of course spending beyond your means is a bad idea. If they can afford top players (for their level) like Pennant and O'Hara then why not? I guess it all rests on whether the owner can afford what he spends.

Wrexham signed Matt Jansen and it made no difference in terms of either attendance or shirt sales, he also wasn't very good.

I have no doubt the likes of Forest Green, Fleetwood and Crawley sold more shirts, but this increase would have not made a huge dent in the overspending. To me it's not a case of whether the owner can afford the players, it's whether he is happy to write the money off, or does he want it (and the land) back at a later date.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, CRW5252 said:

 

Most clubs that go in liquidation at low levels are due to low attendance figures. It's their main source of income (directly and indirectly). 

I disagree, there are loads of clubs with relatively low attendances who don't go into liquidation. Most are either a result of overspending or dodgy owners with ulterior motives.

[CRW5252]

3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Wrexham signed Matt Jansen and it made no difference in terms of either attendance or shirt sales, he also wasn't very good.

I have no doubt the likes of Forest Green, Fleetwood and Crawley sold more shirts, but this increase would have not made a huge dent in the overspending. To me it's not a case of whether the owner can afford the players, it's whether he is happy to write the money off, or does he want it (and the land) back at a later date.

Forest Green, Fleetwood and Crawley have all been successful so I can't see how it can be called overspending. I'd rather be a perceived 'overspending' team in the professional leagues than a 'sensible' team that is stuck in the conference north/south. 

Wrexham signing Jensen isn't comparable to signing 3 high profile players (all ex prem) when in the 7th tier of English football. That is always going to turn heads and no doubt increase revenue from shirt sales and attendance. Most importantly they will be top players at that level and should lead the team to progress. If the owner has the money I see no problem in them spending it. 

[TheGayTent]

1. Pennant isn't on 3k a week.

2. See point 1. 

[jyoung]

8 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

1. Pennant isn't on 3k a week.

2. See point 1. 

Thanks for your super informative response.

[pink_triangle]

9 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

 

9 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

Forest Green, Fleetwood and Crawley have all been successful so I can't see how it can be called overspending. 

Their move up the pyramid has been built on spending much more than they bring in. If the money tap turns off they would have stopped moving up. In that respect the short sales and increases in attendances are pretty irrelevant.

 

9 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

 I'd rather be a perceived 'overspending' team in the professional leagues than a 'sensible' team that is stuck in the conference north/south.

You may not think that if the owner pulls out and saddles the club with debts that the club (even selling a few more tickets and shirts) can't get close to paying.

9 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

 

Wrexham signing Jensen isn't comparable to signing 3 high profile players (all ex prem) when in the 7th tier of English football. That is always going to turn heads and no doubt increase revenue from shirt sales and attendance. 

They will probably get an initial boost based on the names and many will watch and think I'm not watching this crap again. The players have some name value, but I'm not sure if I would watch my village team if they signed Jamie o hara. Again an increase in shirt sales won't make much of a dent on the wage bill. 

 

9 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

  Most importantly they will be top players at that level and should lead the team to progress. 

Not necessarily. Watching non league you see the odd ex premiership player crop up. My general experience has been that they haven't stood out.

 

9 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

If the owner has the money I see no problem in them spending it. 

In general I agree, but there are other factors in play. What if the owner lose interest, loses a lot of money elsewhere. The club is left with outgoings it cant afford.

[Hugh Jass]

10 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

1. Pennant isn't on 3k a week.

2. See point 1. 

Was gonna say. Since when did semi-pro teams hand out those sort of wages?

[Hugh Jass]

He has a point...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jul/30/darron-gibson-sunderland-shit-team-mates-championship

[jyoung]

7 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

He has a point...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jul/30/darron-gibson-sunderland-shit-team-mates-championship

Read this in the papers this morning and fair play to be honest because they were dire last season. Let's see how Grayson does with them this year. Opening fixture against Derby on Friday night. Looking forward to the return of League football and always find the Championship a good league to follow regardless of loyalties.

[Hugh Jass]

9 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Read this in the papers this morning and fair play to be honest because they were dire last season. Let's see how Grayson does with them this year. Opening fixture against Derby on Friday night. Looking forward to the return of League football and always find the Championship a good league to follow regardless of loyalties.

Out of the three relegated teams only Boro look equipped for any sort of promotion push.

[jyoung]

14 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Out of the three relegated teams only Boro look equipped for any sort of promotion push.

I really don't fancy the appointment of Slutsky at Hull but I'm just glad it keeps him away from Chelsea as he is good pals with Roman. Definitely don't want another Avram Grant on our hands. I agree with your point though. I expect Villa to do much better this year and reckon Wednesday might finally break their duck. 

[Hugh Jass]

12 minutes ago, jyoung said:

I really don't fancy the appointment of Slutsky at Hull but I'm just glad it keeps him away from Chelsea as he is good pals with Roman. Definitely don't want another Avram Grant on our hands. I agree with your point though. I expect Villa to do much better this year and reckon Wednesday might finally break their duck. 

Boro, Fulham and Wednesday for me.

Villa deserve at least another ten years at that level.

[jyoung]

30 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Boro, Fulham and Wednesday for me.

Villa deserve at least another ten years at that level.

Wouldn't mind seeing Fulham back in the Prem, always preferred them as neighbors as opposed to QPR. Heard rumblings that the gaffer was unhappy with the board though, so perhaps a bit of trouble brewing there.

Not particularly fussed about Villa in the slightest but Steve Bruce knows exactly how to get out of the Championship having done it countless times.

[TheGayTent]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jul/31/liverpool-fans-88pc-safe-standing-rail-seating-spirit-of-shankly

It's slowly but surely gathering momentum. Excellent. 

[Hugh Jass]

17 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jul/31/liverpool-fans-88pc-safe-standing-rail-seating-spirit-of-shankly

It's slowly but surely gathering momentum. Excellent. 

Great stuff, there's no reason why safe standing shouldn't be implemented. I know we are looking to trial it, I'll definitely be giving it a go.

[zahidf]

Man utd confirm Matic signing.

 

Also, Jose's career has a pattern

[jyoung]

11 hours ago, zahidf said:

Man utd confirm Matic signing.

A bit worrying how we haven't strengthed our side at all. Bakayoko replacing Matic and Morata replacing Costa both like for like. We failed to build on our success after winning the title last time round. Didn't invest, didn't improve the squad etc. Hopefully some new faces arrive asap. We've had a tough pre season. Hazard and Pedro both out, Morata not at full fitness. Moses suspended for the opener. It isn't ideal in the slightest. If we don't win our openers the press will write us out of the title race immediately. I have faith in Conte, just hope the board back him and his ideas etc.

Edited August 1, 2017 by jyoung

[The Nal]

6 minutes ago, jyoung said:

A bit worrying how we haven't strengthed our side at all. Bakayoko replacing Matic and Morata replacing Costa both like for like. We failed to build on our success after winning the title last time round. Didn't invest, didn't improve the squad etc. Hopefully some new faces arrive asap. We've had a tough pre season. Hazard and Pedro both out, Morata not at full fitness. Moses suspended for the opener. It isn't ideal in the slightest. If we don't win our openers the press will write us out of the title race immediately. I have faith in Conte, just hope the board back him and his ideas etc.

Very surprised Matic was sold to Utd. Im delighted but its a weird one from Chelsea.

Most Mourinho sized squad ever?

Zlatan 6'5, Fellaini 6'4, Smalling 6'4, Matic 6'4, De Gea 6'4, McTominay 6'4, Pogba 6'3, Lukaku 6'3, Romero 6'3, Bailly 6'2, Carrick 6'2, Shaw 6'1, Lindelof 6'1, Rojo 6'1, Fosu-Mensah 6'1, Tuanzebe 6'1, Martial 6'0.

Cant ever think of a bigger team, anywhere.

[jyoung]

3 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Cant ever think of a bigger team, anywhere.

Not necessary.

88th minute. Scoreline at 0-0.

"The corner comes in, it's 5'8 centre back Azpilicueta who towers over Pogba and Lukaku to win the header and it's in! 1-0 Chelsea!"

[thetime]

26 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Not necessary.

88th minute. Scoreline at 0-0.

"The corner comes in, it's 5'8 centre back Azpilicueta who towers over Pogba and Lukaku to win the header and it's in! 1-0 Chelsea!"

Err how does that fit to what nal said? 

Although what it will mean is loads of lumping it up top..

[Hugh Jass]

42 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Very surprised Matic was sold to Utd. Im delighted but its a weird one from Chelsea.

Most Mourinho sized squad ever?

Zlatan 6'5, Fellaini 6'4, Smalling 6'4, Matic 6'4, De Gea 6'4, McTominay 6'4, Pogba 6'3, Lukaku 6'3, Romero 6'3, Bailly 6'2, Carrick 6'2, Shaw 6'1, Lindelof 6'1, Rojo 6'1, Fosu-Mensah 6'1, Tuanzebe 6'1, Martial 6'0.

Cant ever think of a bigger team, anywhere.

You've never watched a Pulis team...

[jyoung]

27 minutes ago, thetime said:

Err how does that fit to what nal said? 

Just a bit of a joke mate, don't worry though.

Edited August 1, 2017 by jyoung

[pink_triangle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40784365

Im disappointed (but not surprised) that Chelsea and Sunderland have not been reprimanded for this incident.