Football 17/18

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

La ligas president and real madrid fan javier tabas says that if there is indie, catalan sides will be ejected from La liga. Its not Barca's choice to stay

FIFA would insist on it if Catalonia were independent. It's a consequence of independence and FIFAs rules, nothing else.

Surely a patriotic Catalonian side like Barca would support the very independence they're backing? Nope.

[LJS]

22 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

FIFA would insist on it if Catalonia were independent. It's a consequence of independence and FIFAs rules, nothing else.

Surely a patriotic Catalonian side like Barca would support the very independence they're backing? Nope.

As far as I can see most of what is out there is pure speculation, anyway. 

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, LJS said:

As far as I can see most of what is out there is pure speculation, anyway. 

The FIFA rules on national leagues is not speculation.

the Barca president has talked about which league they'd decide to join instead (like it's them who gets to choose ).

And the Catalonian sports minister - that proud Catalonian patriot, who reckons Catalonia can stand alone - has said Barcelona may be able to play in another country – Italy, France or even England – should the region achieve independence from Spain.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/02/gerard-pique-spain-fans-barcelona-catalan

(I'm pretty sure I saw a different version of the story yesterday on the Guardian with Italy France and England being [supposedly] mentioned by the Barca FC president, but I can't find it now.)

Edited October 4, 2017 by eFestivals

[jyoung]

It's not gonna happen anyway for the obvious reason that it would be stupid.

[LJS]

59 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The FIFA rules on national leagues is not speculation.

the Barca president has talked about which league they'd decide to join instead (like it's them who gets to choose ).

And the Catalonian sports minister - that proud Catalonian patriot, who reckons Catalonia can stand alone - has said Barcelona may be able to play in another country – Italy, France or even England – should the region achieve independence from Spain.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/02/gerard-pique-spain-fans-barcelona-catalan

(I'm pretty sure I saw a different version of the story yesterday on the Guardian with Italy France and England being [supposedly] mentioned by the Barca FC president, but I can't find it now.)

yeah, I guess the reason you can't find it is because it is groundless speculation.

 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, jyoung said:

It's not gonna happen anyway for the obvious reason that it would be stupid.

from a footballing point of view, no more stupid than Barca playing in a meaningless Catalan league.

Can't see FIFA bending their rules even for Barca, tho - it open so many other cans of worms - so the future for them looks not-bright and utterly meaningless and no longer the world's dream team.

[eFestivals]

Just now, LJS said:

yeah, I guess the reason you can't find it is because it is groundless speculation.

The president of Barca FC is talking about the need to find another league to play in.

That's not speculation, that's him facing up to Barca kicked out of the Spanish leagues and having nowhere meaningful to play.

What it isn't is him facing up to FIFA's rules, but they'll need to be faced too if Catalonia decide to make Barca FC a team the best players don't think is worth playing for.

[jyoung]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

from a footballing point of view, no more stupid than Barca playing in a meaningless Catalan league.

Stupid in terms of fans paying for flights, players spending their lives on planes, scheduling etc. No chance.

[LJS]

Just now, eFestivals said:

The president of Barca FC is talking about the need to find another league to play in.

That's not speculation, that's him facing up to Barca kicked out of the Spanish leagues and having nowhere meaningful to play.

What it isn't is him facing up to FIFA's rules, but they'll need to be faced too if Catalonia decide to make Barca FC a team the best players don't think is worth playing for.

Golly, there seem to be quite a few exceptions to FIFA's rules.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_clubs_playing_in_the_league_of_another_country

 

[eFestivals]

Just now, jyoung said:

Stupid in terms of fans paying for flights, players spending their lives on planes, scheduling etc. No chance.

and yet if Barca can't make that happen, what's Barca's future other than pretty meaningless?

A Catalan league will be of about the same appeal to the best players as the Scottish leagues.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

Golly, there seem to be quite a few exceptions to FIFA's rules.

every one of which is historical. 

There's no recent examples. There's none that have happened during the time of the current FIFA rules, which go back about 25 years(ish). During that 25 years(ish) the pressure from FIFA is to break down those exemptions.

As ever, your take is about what you want to happen for Scotland "cos indy" and fuck all to do with the real world.

[LJS]

6 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Stupid in terms of fans paying for flights, players spending their lives on planes, scheduling etc. No chance.

Dunno about that, 2 south African teams have just joined the rugby union pro12 to make it the pro14. Glasgow are playing there this weekend. The squad flew out on Monday!

Meanwhile back in the real world where money talks at least as loudly as FIFA rules, I would imagine Barca would be most likely to remain in La ligue.

Just now, eFestivals said:

every one of which is historical. 

There's no recent examples. There's none that have happened during the time of the current FIFA rules, which go back about 25 years(ish). During that 25 years(ish) the pressure from FIFA is to break down those exemptions.

As ever, your take is about what you want to happen for Scotland "cos indy" and fuck all to do with the real world.

Read it again mate.

"Tweedmouth Rangers joined tier 6 of the Scottish football league system which is the East of Scotland Football League in 2016 from the North Northumberland League"

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, LJS said:

Read it again mate.

of more relevance is what FIFA have said about the 'real' teams of Celtic and Rangers playing outside of Scotland.

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

Meanwhile back in the real world where money talks at least as loudly as FIFA rules, I would imagine Barca would be most likely to remain in La ligue.

oh look, 85% of the population of the Iberian peninsula counts for nothing, again.

[LJS]

32 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

of more relevance is what FIFA have said about the 'real' teams of Celtic and Rangers playing outside of Scotland.

I can't find FIFA or EUFA saying anything. I can find lots of other people speculating about what they might say with lots thinking they would be fine with it. I sincerely hope they are right and you will soon have the pleasure of their company at your local stadia.

32 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

oh look, 85% of the population of the Iberian peninsula counts for nothing, again.

100% of the population anywhere counts for nothing when it comes to decisions about football.

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, LJS said:

100% of the population anywhere counts for nothing when it comes to decisions about football.

Because the Spanish people who run the Spanish league will count for nothing against the might of Barca?

Funny, cos i thought you said self-determination matters.

[pink_triangle]

I think Neil is probably correct when he says the governing bodies discourage country switching. I however feel they would judge things on a case by case basis.They wouldn't want Barcelona to push for a European super league, I personally wouldn't be bothered if the European super league started.

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think Neil is probably correct when he says the governing bodies discourage country switching. I however feel they would judge things on a case by case basis.They wouldn't want Barcelona to push for a European super league, I personally wouldn't be bothered if the European super league started.

Barca might push for a euro super league, but it would be game over for barca before that came about.

[LJS]

58 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Barca might push for a euro super league, but it would be game over for barca before that came about.

really? I don't know how much money LA liga gets from TV rights but I'm pretty sure it be significantly less with no barca & particularly no "El Classico"

Money talks. 

There are also another teams in Catalonia including Espanyol who I'm sure would be keen to continue to play in La liga.

Incidentally, on a personal level, I couldn't give a flying farq where Barcelona play their football, I'm only stating what I think is likely.

[eFestivals]

40 minutes ago, LJS said:

Incidentally, on a personal level, I couldn't give a flying farq where Barcelona play their football, I'm only stating what I think is likely.

nor could I, but i'm not the one thinking everything is certain to fall to favour just one side.

Opinions have already been expressed for where it ends up for footie by both sides, and they're essentially in total agreement - that Barca will be out of la liga. 

The question is about where they go instead, not about staying.

[LJS]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nor could I, but i'm not the one thinking everything is certain to fall to favour just one side.

Me neither.

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Opinions have already been expressed for where it ends up for footie by both sides, and they're essentially in total agreement - that Barca will be out of la liga. 

That may be correct. It would require La Liga to put principle before money which would be highly unusual in modern football. 

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The question is about where they go instead, not about staying.

I thought you weren't the one being certain.

[eFestivals]

31 minutes ago, LJS said:

That may be correct. It would require La Liga to put principle before money which would be highly unusual in modern football. 

but there's all sorts of different principles in play - including FIFAs, and that if Catalonia is doing a fuck-you at Spain, Spain is going to be wanting to do it back.

[LJS]

33 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

but there's all sorts of different principles in play - including FIFAs,

FIFA's principles?!*#!

33 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and that if Catalonia is doing a fuck-you at Spain, Spain is going to be wanting to do it back.

Maybe, but more on a political level than a football level, I would imagine. 

And at both of these levels, money talks.

I'm not claiming it's certain. I'm only saying ruling it out is naive.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

FIFA's principles?!*#!

They have a rule book, and they're quite stringent at applying it to other people.

Just not themselves. 

 

 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

Maybe, but more on a political level than a football level, I would imagine. 

You do know that Barca chose to play their match behind closed doors the other day, don't you?

 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

And at both of these levels, money talks.

I'm not claiming it's certain. I'm only saying ruling it out is naive.

Not on this case.

Barca isn't some poor club trapped on the sidelines suffering the consequences of political happenings that are nothing to do with them.

They've come out as a club for Catalan independence, which makes them (as a generalisation) against Spain as far as the Spanish are concerned.

I can't see that one getting bridged if indy happens. It's going to be damned difficult to bridge even if it doesn't happen.

 

 

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

They have a rule book, and they're quite stringent at applying it to other people.

Just not themselves. 

 

 

You do know that Barca chose to play their match behind closed doors the other day, don't you?

 

Not on this case.

Barca isn't some poor club trapped on the sidelines suffering the consequences of political happenings that are nothing to do with them.

 

Indeed , they are probably the biggest club on the planet. Which. Gives. Them. Clout.

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

They've come out as a club for Catalan independence, which makes them (as a generalisation) against Spain as far as the Spanish are concerned.

I can't see that one getting bridged if indy happens. It's going to be damned difficult to bridge even if it doesn't happen.

 

 

You have skirted round the money issue. You're sure LA Liga will put "principles above money?

Edited October 4, 2017 by LJS

[Comfy Bean]

13 hours ago, eFestivals said:

 

C'mon, FFS .... the only reason Celtic and Rangers still play in Scotland is because Scotland knows it'd lose its 'national' team if it changed.

Nonsense.