Football 18/19

[jyoung]

The chat on here has gone a bit damp in the past week or two. City and Liverpool slagging each other off every five minutes talking about anything other than football.

[Wooderson]

That FA cup run is the stuff of legend.

[jyoung]

Zizou is a savage.

[pink_triangle]

26 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Zizou is a savage.

Difficult player for Madrid to get rid of. Maybe they will have to sort a loan deal and pay some of his wages. He is a big enough name that surely man utd would bite!

[The Nal]

41 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Difficult player for Madrid to get rid of. Maybe they will have to sort a loan deal and pay some of his wages. He is a big enough name that surely man utd would bite!

I'd be happy with Sanchez out Bale in. 

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, jyoung said:

The chat on here has gone a bit damp in the past week or two. City and Liverpool slagging each other off every five minutes talking about anything other than football.

Yes I totally agree and I did offer the olive branch and said lets keep it to football as I was bored with talking about things that were not happening on the pitch

City winning seems to have brought the worse out in the Liverpool fans. I perfectly understand that they had their hopes up and then dashed, so I do forgive them. 

 

[thetime]

23 minutes ago, The Nal said:

I'd be happy with Sanchez out Bale in. 

Yes just what united need.

Sign big name, big wages and they do shit and repeat. That type of signing is what united keep doing, you would of thought they realised that by now. 

[jyoung]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Difficult player for Madrid to get rid of. Maybe they will have to sort a loan deal and pay some of his wages.

Bale deserves more respect from them imo. Agree he will be hard to shift though and from the sounds of it he has no intention of leaving.

52 minutes ago, The Nal said:

I'd be happy with Sanchez out Bale in. 

Hmm. Bale might offer more than Sanchez but you just don't know. From a financial perspective, United are still on fire from the Sanchez deal. Signing Bale would be like opening the window. Not sure it's a great idea tbh.

41 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Yes I totally agree and I did offer the olive branch and said lets keep it to football as I was bored with talking about things that were not happening on the pitch.

Sounds good to me. Didn't see the Vinny one coming.

[eastynh]

5 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Bale deserves more respect from them imo. Agree he will be hard to shift though and from the sounds of it he has no intention of leaving.

Hmm. Bale might offer more than Sanchez but you just don't know. From a financial perspective, United are still on fire from the Sanchez deal. Signing Bale would be like opening the window. Not sure it's a great idea tbh.

Sounds good to me. Didn't see the Vinny one coming.

Seeing him in tears after the Leicester game got me thinking something was not right.

To quote Ian Brown "Don't be sad that it is over, be happy that it happened"

[jyoung]

15 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Seeing him in tears after the Leicester game got me thinking something was not right.

What a way to go. As I said after that game. A PL legend.

Edited May 19, 2019 by jyoung

[Wooderson]

Utd can do better than Bale and his 2.5m a month.

[ThomThomDrum]

1 hour ago, eastynh said:

Yes I totally agree and I did offer the olive branch and said lets keep it to football as I was bored with talking about things that were not happening on the pitch

City winning seems to have brought the worse out in the Liverpool fans. I perfectly understand that they had their hopes up and then dashed, so I do forgive them. 

 

Easty the manner in which you celebrated your league win on here was pathetic and disgusting, in contrast to the posts prior to that where people on here acknowledged the incredible achievement City had completed. You had zero class in victory. You came on here calling Liverpool fans scum etc etc, and now claim to be a bigger person with olive branches and “keeping it to football”. 

Dont be too shocked if folk you called scum don’t rush to take you up on the offer. 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by ThomThomDrum

[eastynh]

4 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

Easty the manner in which you celebrated your league win on here was pathetic and disgusting, in contrast to the posts prior to that where people on here acknowledged the incredible achievement City had completed. You had zero class in victory. You came on here calling Liverpool fans scum etc etc, and now claim to be a bigger person with olive branches and “keeping it to football”. 

Dont be too shocked if folk you called scum don’t rush to take you up on the offer. 

 

I said feral scum ?‍♂️

[thetime]

6 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

Easty the manner in which you celebrated your league win on here was pathetic and disgusting, in contrast to the posts prior to that where people on here acknowledged the incredible achievement City had completed. You had zero class in victory. You came on here calling Liverpool fans scum etc etc, and now claim to be a bigger person with olive branches and “keeping it to football”. 

Dont be too shocked if folk you called scum don’t rush to take you up in the offer. 

 

To be fair easty does take a lot of stick on here also. With the stick he gets and the title victory he got a bit giddy. 

[mjsell]

4 hours ago, eastynh said:

Yes I totally agree and I did offer the olive branch and said lets keep it to football as I was bored with talking about things that were not happening on the pitch

City winning seems to have brought the worse out in the Liverpool fans. I perfectly understand that they had their hopes up and then dashed, so I do forgive them. 

 

Even in a comment trying to act the bigger man and saying you tried to 'keep it to football' you then go on to slate Liverpool fans in the very next sentence. 

What Man City has achieved has been truly great this year - no one has, or ever will, deny that. All people have said - and as a complete neutral in this debate, i agree with -  is that despite the greatness it just doesn't have the same feeling of greatness as the actual achievement should do. 

Personally I put this down to a number of factors all contributing to create this slight emptiness. Obviously the money spent is a massive factor, but also other things like the routes to the fa cup and league cup wins not being the most challenging ever seen, the lack of European dominance to go with it (especially during a season where English clubs have been the most successful ever in Europe), as well as the lack of enjoyment neutrals have watching City.

I, and I know many others, find their games extremely dull. Dominant team but often boring to watch makes neutrals far less excited by their achievements than other great teams of the past. 

That's just my 2 cents. But in the end none of it matters - the constant need to rank achievements is an odd one anyway - enjoy your wins, stop caring if others think you are 'the greatest premier league team ever' or not.  

[mjsell]

6 hours ago, jyoung said:

Zizou is a savage.

Interesting that another reporter who was at the press conference has said that Zidane never said that: 

Zidane: "If I had brought on another player, the same thing would have happened” (By this I'm fairly sure he means that whoever is not subbed on would be asked about afterwards). But from that to what was reported is a massive stretch. Irresponsible."

Sounds to me that its a quote that the media has decided to twist to fit their agenda. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by mjsell

[jyoung]

7 hours ago, mjsell said:

Obviously the money spent is a massive factor, but also other things like the routes to the fa cup and league cup wins not being the most challenging ever seen, the lack of European dominance to go with it (especially during a season where English clubs have been the most successful ever in Europe), as well as the lack of enjoyment neutrals have watching City.

As another neutral, my response to your points...

Spending money doesn't guarantee League success, see Manchester United. Nor does it guarantee European success, see PSG. In most of the big European leagues, the biggest spenders win. We don't poke Barca, Madrid, Juve etc with the same stick, we praise them.

As for the FA Cup and League Cup routes, you can only beat what is in front of you. This is a straw being clutched at and because Man City are so dominant it's an easy one. Some will always clutch at straws but truth is that most people probably wouldn't be saying the same thing had it been Tottenham, Liverpool or even Chelsea or United in City's winning position. England had the easy route to the World Cup final.

And lastly, European dominance? It has nothing to do with it. Arsenal's invincibles did not win a European trophy, they are considered great. Leicester the same. Chelsea 05 and so on. An English team has won it once in the last ten years. Only Madrid have been truly dominant and they knocked City out in the semis a few years back by a single goal. City have been knocked out by finalists three of the past four years. It took Chelsea four semis and one final in six years before they finally succeeded in 2012. In the time it took them to win it, they lifted the Premier League three times and FA Cup four times. They didn't just become great because they lifted the Champions League. If that's the measure of success then one of Tottenham or Liverpool are about to have a not so great season.

I'm not that bothered about whether the media or neutrals like one team more than another or whether they respect another teams achievements less so. That's par for the course; people have favourites. I do however find it tiring when people seem to be so desperate for reasons to knock something that they clutch at straws (which rich team is more ethical, who sells out the stadium) when let's face it, if it was their team tasting this success, they would have the biggest boner.

[jyoung]

@mjsell that's not me digging you out personally by the way. I think many if not most would agree. I just feel like the perspective is lost amongst football fans due to the competitive nature of it. When a team is so good it takes out almost the entire competition, as you say, for many it takes away the fun.

[pink_triangle]

18 minutes ago, jyoung said:

As another neutral, my response to your points...

Spending money doesn't guarantee League success, see Manchester United. Nor does it guarantee European success, see PSG. In most of the big European leagues, the biggest spenders win. We don't poke Barca, Madrid, Juve etc with the same stick, we praise them.

As for the FA Cup and League Cup routes, you can only beat what is in front of you. This is a straw being clutched at and because Man City are so dominant it's an easy one. Some will always clutch at straws but truth is that most people probably wouldn't be saying the same thing had it been Tottenham, Liverpool or even Chelsea or United in City's winning position. England had the easy route to the World Cup final.

And lastly, European dominance? It has nothing to do with it. Arsenal's invincibles did not win a European trophy, they are considered great. Leicester the same. Chelsea 05 and so on. An English team has won it once in the last ten years. Only Madrid have been truly dominant and they knocked City out in the semis a few years back by a single goal. City have been knocked out by finalists three of the past four years. It took Chelsea four semis and one final in six years before they finally succeeded in 2012. In the time it took them to win it, they lifted the Premier League three times and FA Cup four times. They didn't just become great because they lifted the Champions League. If that's the measure of success then one of Tottenham or Liverpool are about to have a not so great season.

I'm not that bothered about whether the media or neutrals like one team more than another or whether they respect another teams achievements less so. That's par for the course; people have favourites. I do however find it tiring when people seem to be so desperate for reasons to knock something that they clutch at straws (which rich team is more ethical, who sells out the stadium) when let's face it, if it was their team tasting this success, they would have the biggest boner.

My view is that non of the bigger sides are complete ethical and if one decided to put pay the players less and donate more to good causes the players would look elsewhere. The only way for a new team to compete consistently is big spending, so unless you want the same teams constantly on top, that is what we are stuck with.

I wouldn't completely discount champions league. Take a club like Barcelona winning the champions league is a big part of their legacy. I remember before the first man utd final many of the British media were talking them as a fancy team in an easy league. Not just the win, but the way they played man u off the park changed that.

Also in terms of the draws, it was East who said the cup is a lottery. I think the point is that City were dealt a kind draw in that lottery and in no way we're screwed.

[The Nal]

13 hours ago, thetime said:

Yes just what united need.

Sign big name, big wages and they do shit and repeat. That type of signing is what united keep doing, you would of thought they realised that by now. 

Depends on how much hes looking for. Surely hes an improvement on whats already there? If anything just for his speed on the break. Lovely range of passing too and scores goals. 

Very odd stuff from Zidane. Madrid are in a similar state to Utd.

[thetime]

3 minutes ago, The Nal said:

 Surely hes an improvement on whats already there?

 

I am sure you would of said the same about Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez, Falcao etc etc. For me its about building for the next 5 years and to do that they need young hungry footballers. Certainly not players who are after massive wages and give very little on the pitch. Bale is a signing woodward would love to make no doubt, short term solution to a long term problem.

[The Nal]

2 minutes ago, thetime said:

I am sure you would of said the same about Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez, Falcao etc etc. For me its about building for the next 5 years and to do that they need young hungry footballers. Certainly not players who are after massive wages and give very little on the pitch. Bale is a signing woodward would love to make no doubt, short term solution to a long term problem.

I think a mix works best. Fergie said he aimed for an average squad age of 28. 

In theory those signings should have worked. Pogba and Di Maria have attitude problems and Sanchez and Falcao are too small. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by The Nal

[jyoung]

Clubs like United need to look at building a better team rather than individual big name signings. The likes of Nicolas Pépé, Matthijs de Ligt, Hakim Ziyech and Wifried Zaha should be mentioned ahead of Gareth Bale in my opinion.

I've just seen Mbappe say he is open to a new project. That's got Madrid written all over it, surely?!

[thetime]

15 minutes ago, The Nal said:

 Pogba and Di Maria have attitude problems and Sanchez and Falcao are too small. 

Recruitment then yeah? Shite transfer policy. 

[The Nal]

9 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Clubs like United need to look at building a better team rather than individual big name signings. The likes of Nicolas Pépé, Matthijs de Ligt, Hakim Ziyech and Wifried Zaha should be mentioned ahead of Gareth Bale in my opinion.

I've just seen Mbappe say he is open to a new project. That's got Madrid written all over it, surely?!

Zaha aside none of them will touch Utd. They could play for Guardiola, Klopp, Tuchel etc. But Ole in the Europa? Nah.

I think Madrid will being out the cash big league. And old team in desperate need of investment. They finished 19 points off Barca this season. Lost 12 games, 1 loss off their worst ever. A great example of how Champions League success can paper over the cracks. 

6 minutes ago, thetime said:

Recruitment then yeah? Shite transfer policy. 

Certainly after Falcao, Sanchez looks silly in hindsight. The transfer policy has been shambolic, more so the players who have been given new contracts. Like who in the name of jumping Jesus gave Phil Jones a 4 year deal?