Football 18/19

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, dentalplan said:

 

edit: also it's like you said about the tactical subs... Southgate isn't interested in changing the shape - you see Alli standing at the touchline and you know who's coming off. 

Southgate has had a very easy ride this World Cup due to the ridiculously lowered expectations, pretty much all praise and no criticism. He has a lot to prove from the tactical side.

[dentalplan]

My god...

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

My god...

That’s exactly why I didn’t want VAR introduced.

[kaosmark2]

7 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

That’s exactly why I didn’t want VAR introduced.

Completely. 6 minutes between the incident happening and the penalty being taken. utterly ridiculous.

[pink_triangle]

Best World Cup final I have ever seen so far, Croatia have however been completely screwed.

[kaosmark2]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Best World Cup final I have ever seen so far, Croatia have however been completely screwed.

Griezmann completely dived for the free-kick before the OG, and while it probably was a pen, it was such a soft one and VAR took so fucking long.

Great final, but fuck me I'm growing to hate this French team.

[dentalplan]

Just now, kaosmark2 said:

Great final, but fuck me I'm growing to hate this French team.

At least it’s like a proper storyline for a huge Croatia win... hopefully.

Their goal was immense.

[LJS]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Best World Cup final I have ever seen so far, Croatia have however been completely screwed.

Agree. 100% not a penalty.

[pink_triangle]

That’s why some of us dinosaurs did not want VAR introduced in the World Cup, it’s potentially screwed up the final.

[dentalplan]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

That’s why some of us dinosaurs did not want VAR introduced in the World Cup, it’s potentially screwed up the final.

I’ll maintain that it’s useful and worth being there for the clear injustices. If it takes the ref 15-20 viewings then fuggedaboutit.

[kaosmark2]

Well while their first two goals were complete bullshit, at least France had 2 great ones to follow. Obviously they can't counter into that space if Croatia are 1-0 up, but at least they've shown serious quality.

That ball from Pogba to Mbappe is the best moment of quality I've seen from him since he left Juve. The finish was good but that ball to start the move was astounding.

[dentalplan]

Maybe a sour way to win it but best team of the tournament, no doubt. Sucks for Croatia but this happens in international football. Great tournament, great final.

[dentalplan]

Modric Golden Ball. Completely agree with that.

Courtois Golden Glove is probably about fair. Had thought the two keepers today would be further in contention but neither covered themselves in glory in this game.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Well while their first two goals were complete bullshit, at least France had 2 great ones to follow. Obviously they can't counter into that space if Croatia are 1-0 up, but at least they've shown serious quality.

That ball from Pogba to Mbappe is the best moment of quality I've seen from him since he left Juve. The finish was good but that ball to start the move was astounding.

I think France are worthy winners, but the first half left a bad taste. Many of us said VAR could negatively impact on a World Cup final and so it happened. To me it puts a hell of a lot of pressure on a referee, which can result in finding something that is not there. The fact they use slow motion is ridiculous as it completely exaggerates what happened. These flaws should have been ironed out before the World Cup.

I thought Croatia kept fighting and kept their heads in tough circumstances. I also want to swap our PM for their president despite not having a clue about her politics!

[kaosmark2]

To me this type of VAR is the worst way they could have implemented technology. A 5 minute stoppage in play for anything other than a serious injury is inexcusable. It's also a thing of the video referee passing the buck back to the onfield ref, instead of just making the decision themselves. Hugely long stoppages, with lots of indecision, that disrupt the flow of the game, and don't necessarily end in a decisive result. Everything that could have been bad about it happened.

France were probably the best team of the tournament, their counterattacking displays vs Croatia (2nd half) and Argentina were fantastic.

I also said it after Spain got knocked out, but I haven't missed possession football this tournament at all. Spain, Germany, and Argentina, the teams that have been in the finals of recent tournaments with it, all got knocked out early despite huge possession statistics. The likes of Belgium/Croatia that got into the latter stages had far more purpose to their passing in midfield and a genuine desire to try and create, as opposed to passing sideways and waiting for an opening. It's much more entertaining to watch and I'm glad of it.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

To me this type of VAR is the worst way they could have implemented technology. A 5 minute stoppage in play for anything other than a serious injury is inexcusable. It's also a thing of the video referee passing the buck back to the onfield ref, instead of just making the decision themselves. Hugely long stoppages, with lots of indecision, that disrupt the flow of the game, and don't necessarily end in a decisive result. Everything that could have been bad about it happened.

France were probably the best team of the tournament, their counterattacking displays vs Croatia (2nd half) and Argentina were fantastic.

I also said it after Spain got knocked out, but I haven't missed possession football this tournament at all. Spain, Germany, and Argentina, the teams that have been in the finals of recent tournaments with it, all got knocked out early despite huge possession statistics. The likes of Belgium/Croatia that got into the latter stages had far more purpose to their passing in midfield and a genuine desire to try and create, as opposed to passing sideways and waiting for an opening. It's much more entertaining to watch and I'm glad of it.

When I think over the tournament if we don’t have VAR I don’t think there are any huge injustices, France would probably still be world champions. The final definitely would have been better without VAR. If they are going to start giving all these handballs from VAR then I don’t think the game is better.

I agree that the entertainment aspect can be reduced in that Spanish possession style, although I don’t necessarily want football to evolve in to a game where half the goals come from set pieces. To me World Cup 2010 had a better group phase, but this has had a better knockout. France 98 is still my favourite as I think the overall standard was higher and the best players performed better.

[dentalplan]

17 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

When I think over the tournament if we don’t have VAR I don’t think there are any huge injustices, France would probably still be world champions. The final definitely would have been better without VAR. If they are going to start giving all these handballs from VAR then I don’t think the game is better.

France may have finished second in the group without VAR, and played Croatia two weeks ago.

[dentalplan]

17 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

When I think over the tournament if we don’t have VAR I don’t think there are any huge injustices, France would probably still be world champions. The final definitely would have been better without VAR. If they are going to start giving all these handballs from VAR then I don’t think the game is better.

France may have finished second in the group without VAR, and played Croatia two weeks ago.

[pink_triangle]

Just now, dentalplan said:

France may have finished second in the group without VAR, and played Croatia two weeks ago.

In which case they would probably still have won and ended up with an easier route to the final. My point stands that I don’t think I would have enjoyed the tournament less without VAR, I definitely would have enjoyed the final more.

[kaosmark2]

34 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

When I think over the tournament if we don’t have VAR I don’t think there are any huge injustices, France would probably still be world champions. The final definitely would have been better without VAR. If they are going to start giving all these handballs from VAR then I don’t think the game is better.

I agree that the entertainment aspect can be reduced in that Spanish possession style, although I don’t necessarily want football to evolve in to a game where half the goals come from set pieces. To me World Cup 2010 had a better group phase, but this has had a better knockout. France 98 is still my favourite as I think the overall standard was higher and the best players performed better.

My biggest issue with VAR isn't the decisions that result from it, it's the lengthy stoppages. Plenty have taken 5+ minutes, which is far far too long in what is meant to be a free-flowing game.

I agree that set piece goals generally aren't ideal, but Croatia's first goal was from a set piece and was fantastic. To me there's "whip it in and headed in/2nd ball fired" as one type of set piece goal that is just part of the game. The well worked goals like England's 2nd vs Panama, Croatia's first today, one of Belgium's, are all enjoyable.

I think this is the best tournament since France '98, which was the first I paid any notable attention to. South Africa '10 had a lot of entertaining things, but I feel the standard this year was higher, and simultaneously things were less predictable.

[pink_triangle]

For all the talk about a missed opportunity for England, I think that applies far more to Belgium. I have no doubt they would have beaten Croatia in a final, their chance may not come again.

[Gnomicide]

VAR has proved useful in that it's stopped a lot of the grabbing, pushing, shoving that was going on at the start of the tournament. It was really noticeable how much less it was being referred to by the end of the competition. 

Bring it in to the Premier League and it'll be carnage for a month, then it'll all settle down. 

It's no coincidence so many goals have been scored from free kicks and corners, defenders are terrified to grab attackers like they used to because they know a penalty will be given.

I'm not sure this is a good thing or not, how will managers go? Set piece specialists, get a corner and through in all the massive defenders to stand in a line and attack the ball? Interesting times ahead.

 

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

VAR has proved useful in that it's stopped a lot of the grabbing, pushing, shoving that was going on at the start of the tournament. It was really noticeable how much less it was being referred to by the end of the competition. 

Bring it in to the Premier League and it'll be carnage for a month, then it'll all settle down. 

It's no coincidence so many goals have been scored from free kicks and corners, defenders are terrified to grab attackers like they used to because they know a penalty will be given.

I'm not sure this is a good thing or not, how will managers go? Set piece specialists, get a corner and through in all the massive defenders to stand in a line and attack the ball? Interesting times ahead.

 

To me the amount of goals from open play was one of the negatives about this tournament. If the game becomes more set piece heavy, it is to the detriment.

[kaosmark2]

5 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

To me the amount of goals from open play was one of the negatives about this tournament. If the game becomes more set piece heavy, it is to the detriment.

I think that's partially due to the stop-start nature of VAR, as well as the high amount of theatrics. If the game stops more often, you get more goals from set pieces.

[pink_triangle]

11 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think that's partially due to the stop-start nature of VAR, as well as the high amount of theatrics. If the game stops more often, you get more goals from set pieces.

I also fear that if the game becomes more focussed on set pieces, the importance of the set piece increases and diving (or looking for fouls) increases. Holding during set pieces was annoying, but I’m not convinced It’s annoyingly enough to make the game worse.