Football 19/20

[Wooderson]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

you making that comment only shows you're not actually thinking about what I've said about VAR. My objection to VAR is *NOT* about an objection to the ref getting it right. Suggesting it is is as moronic as the questions I got asked here yesterday.

Slowing the game changes the game. Taking away goal celebrations changes the game. Taking away talking points changes the game.

No one is considering the effect of those changes onto the game, they're only thinking about how it might advantage their team.

I would happily trade an increase in refereeing accuracy over any and all discussion related to the impoverished interpretation of the rules of the game. Think this is a weak position to defend from the anti-VAR side.

Getting the calls right is should be the priority. As ive said upthread Neil I agree that the implementation needs work, thats abundantly clear. The timing of how it works will need to be improved of course - but footie has always had timing issues. Advantage is very fuzzy and subjective as can late offside calls by poorly aligned linos.

The game will adapt like it always does. Removing rather than preserving inaccuracy should be the focus.

[eFestivals]

21 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Getting the calls right is should be the priority.

100% disagree.

The game is more than just the rules.

Everything else about the game shouldn't be sacrificed in order to play to the rules.

The players don't hold your opinion about the rules btw - otherwise you'd have never seen a player dive.

Edited August 13, 2019 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

And if the rules are everything, why are they introducing VAR before they've sorted the other things easily sorted without VAR?

Send off all players who question the ref; book all goalies with the ball for more than 7 secs; etc, etc, etc.

When those are non-marginal decisions are being applied get back to me about using VAR to sort out the marginal decisions.

[eFestivals]

27 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

The game will adapt like it always does.

who said it shouldn't adapt? Not me.

But do be aware that adapting the game has the potential to kill the game.

 

27 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Removing rather than preserving inaccuracy should be the focus.

Then start in the easy places and not the harder ones.

But again, you're showing you don't get it. My argument is not about preserving inaccuracies, it's about the cost to the game of trying - not necessarily succeeding - to address inaccuracies.

If the rules are so important and that's the argument for VAR, then we'll see all decisions up for review. There's throw-in? VAR, else it might be wrongly awarded (which happens much more than some of the 'rule failures' VAR is used for). Etc, etc, etc.

[Hugh Jass]

14 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Which teams have lost a champions league/world cup final because of an error that would have been cleared up by VAR?

We lost the 2008 FA Cup semi final to Portsmouth because Milan Bastard Baros handled the ball before scoring.

Not that I'm still bitter about it...

[pryce]

I feel VAR is looking for any reason to disallow a goal

and this is not what it should be used for!

 

with the sterling MMs we have got to the point where if both players back feet are level but one has a bigger shoe size than the other then its offside!!!

 

I know I am going with a pretty drastic and its not going to happen option but that's the law .... so it must be upheld!

 

 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, pryce said:

I feel VAR is looking for any reason to disallow a goal

and this is not what it should be used for!

 

with the sterling MMs we have got to the point where if both players back feet are level but one has a bigger shoe size than the other then its offside!!!

 

I know I am going with a pretty drastic and its not going to happen option but that's the law .... so it must be upheld!

Oh c'mon - you're either on-side or off-side. An arbitrary line has to be set somewhere.

If there's a case for changing where the line is then that argument can be made, but to suggest it shouldn't be off-side when it is off-side cos it's just a little bit off-side is a bit mad.

(I'll just point out that that's nothing to do with VAR. That very-tight judgement can also be made correctly or not without VAR).

[pryce]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Oh c'mon - you're either on-side or off-side. An arbitrary line has to be set somewhere.

If there's a case for changing where the line is then that argument can be made, but to suggest it shouldn't be off-side when it is off-side cos it's just a little bit off-side is a bit mad.

(I'll just point out that that's nothing to do with VAR. That very-tight judgement can also be made correctly or not without VAR).

fair enough then.

 

can someone also tell me with the Wolves non goal, if that hit a Leicester player the same way before it hit the wolves player would it be a penalty? or is the rule only for goals scored? 

[fred quimby]

18 hours ago, eFestivals said:

and that's exactly my point.

You're not sure what impact VAR is going to have, but you're sure you want VAR.  

Not really what I was saying. I was refuting your claim that the popularity of football was there because there were errors to discuss (well part of it), and that VAR will decrease footballs popularity. Time will tell of course

Edited August 13, 2019 by fred quimby

[kaosmark2]

The fans in the ground not celebrating because of the potential for it to be ruled out is telling for me. I hadn't thought of it until pryce mentioned it but that's an absolute killer. The shock of a goal being ruled out used to be a major thing, now that excitement isn't instantaneous and it will ruin the game.

[eFestivals]

51 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

I was refuting your claim that the popularity of football was there because there were errors to discuss (well part of it)

You think a sign of football being popular is when people aren't discussing it?   

 

51 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

, and that VAR will decrease footballs popularity. Time will tell of course

Time will tell, yep - but then it's too late of course.

I think it will decrease it's popularity. The game ceases to be the fast flowing game it is - it's irrefutable that VAR slows it down - and there's less talking points.

And as that article I linked to pointed out, it also lessens/kills goal celebrations - and those celebrations are what it's all about for everyone except those employed by the clubs.

[fred quimby]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

You think a sign of football being popular is when people aren't discussing it?   

 

changed comment as I read yours wrong sorry

Depends on what you mean by "are not discussing it" really that is one big thing right there, People do not have to be talking about a refs decision to make it popular, which was your main thrust of that part of your argument.

Edited August 13, 2019 by fred quimby

[Hugh Jass]

2 hours ago, pryce said:

 

with the sterling MMs we have got to the point where if both players back feet are level but one has a bigger shoe size than the other then its offside!!!

 

So you're saying that tiny footed players will be in demand?

[lost]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

The fans in the ground not celebrating because of the potential for it to be ruled out is telling for me. I hadn't thought of it until pryce mentioned it but that's an absolute killer. The shock of a goal being ruled out used to be a major thing, now that excitement isn't instantaneous and it will ruin the game.

I think I mentioned it also during the women world cup. There was also that bizarre moment where a women's team got so upset by the VAR decisions after having two or three goals overruled that the referee decided to ignore them for the rest of the match as she was worried the team would walk off.

Edited August 13, 2019 by lost

[The Nal]

If the future of VAR is players only semi celebrating goals like we saw with City at the weekend then its a no from me. Id rather some dodgy decisions and teams getting fucked over (EG Henry handball vs Ireland) than players scoring legit goals and then looking up a big screen to see if its stands before jogging back to the halfway line. 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, The Nal said:

If the future of VAR is players only semi celebrating goals like we saw with City at the weekend then its a no from me. Id rather some dodgy decisions and teams getting fucked over (EG Henry handball vs Ireland) than players scoring legit goals and then looking up a big screen to see if its stands before jogging back to the halfway line. 

Nice comment.  

I know just how sore you were (unsurprisingly) over that Henry goal, but it certainly made football interesting, didn't it? 

Probably not as interesting for you as it would have been for Ireland to reach the WC, but that's a different thing - and anyway your interest there would have been at the expense of French interest. In looking at the rules of the game we need to rise above personal interest and think about what's best for the game as a whole.

And I'd say that even if VAR is ultimately the right decision for the game, we haven't gone thru the right process to arrive at that conclusion. The thought has gone into how to work the rules better but without consideration for the whole game.

[kaosmark2]

36 minutes ago, lost said:

I think I mentioned it also during the women world cup. There was also that bizarre moment where a women's team got so upset by the VAR decisions after having two or three goals overruled that the referee decided to ignore them for the rest of the match as she was worried the team would walk off.

Quite possibly! I was only skimming comments at the time. And wow. That's quite a dramatic fear. 

[pryce]

just reading through a Leicester forum, it went for them and they said the match day experience was awful with it.

(the below Im not sure with, because the handball wasn't an assist) but It really is going to affect the match day experience.

 

 

There was potentially a massive talking point today for me. When Perez clearly handled the ball to bring it under control, if we had gone on and scored I have no doubt that it would have been disallowed.

But.....

We got a corner from the resulting attack. If we had scored from the corner the goal would have stood. 

This for me was exactly the sort of issue I was worried about with VAR. Myself and others around me found ourselves in a bizarre situation of not wanting the attack  to result in a goal, because we knew it would be disallowed. So when it goes out for a corner everyone is thinking ‘better than scoring’. Just an odd situation to be in. 

[lost]

Yep I noticed that watching the game.. Wolves had a goal disallowed two headers, the first hit his own players hand who had his back to goal and may actually of gone in if his own player hadn't been there, then headed in the rebound and it was disallowed via VAR as even non-deliberate hand balls are not allowed this year. The ref then missed a deliberate handball in a build up to a leicester attack which resulted in a corner for Leicester.

I was thinking if they score from this its going to kick off as Wolves have had a goal disallowed for a non-deliberate handball and Leicester will get one from a deliberate one.

Edited August 13, 2019 by lost

[Hugh Jass]

56 minutes ago, lost said:

Yep I noticed that watching the game.. Wolves had a goal disallowed two headers, the first hit his own players hand who had his back to goal and may actually of gone in if his own player hadn't been there, then headed in the rebound and it was disallowed via VAR as even non-deliberate hand balls are not allowed this year. The ref then missed a deliberate handball in a build up to a leicester attack which resulted in a corner for Leicester.

I was thinking if they score from this its going to kick off as Wolves have had a goal disallowed for a non-deliberate handball and Leicester will get one from a deliberate one.

To be fair anything that screws Wolves over can only be viewed as a good thing.

[pryce]

34 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

To be fair anything that screws Wolves over can only be viewed as a good thing.

Have half of my family supporting wolves and my girlfriends family supporting West brom... Will make an entertaining wedding... For once as a Leeds fan I can relax 

[Gnomicide]

 

Side eye dog, anyone?

[The Nal]

5 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

 

Side eye dog, anyone?

[Gnomicide]

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

 

Side eye dog, anyone?

but how can that be? Someone told me City didn't break any rules.