Football 19/20

[jyoung]

 

[eastynh]

Did Chelsea not have 29 breaches though and City only 2? City's were also before the rules were clarified before 2016 where as Chelsea's were not. City's were also cleared at the time by the FA. City also admitted what they had done. 

World of difference between City's and Chelseas cases.

[pink_triangle]

Its hard not to have sympathy for Bury fans at the moment. At the same time part of me wonder how bothered Bury fans were getting promoted on the back of players they couldn't afford.

[eastynh]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Its hard not to have sympathy for Bury fans at the moment. At the same time part of me wonder how bothered Bury fans were getting promoted on the back of players they couldn't afford.

Its a good job financial fair play will save them.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, eastynh said:

City also admitted what they had done. 

well, apart from in every quote they gave to the press and everything their fans said.  

[jyoung]

Can't see Chelsea's back line handling Liverpool tonight. Rudiger on the bench and Kante picked up another knock against United so we'll be lacking there. Hopefully we manage to stamp out the unforced errors.

[Hugh Jass]

The European Super Cup somehow manages to hold even less interest than the Charity Shield.

[CRW5252]

On 8/12/2019 at 12:06 PM, eFestivals said:

and football needs changing because...?

It's the most popular game in the world BECAUSE of stuff like ref errors, not in spite of them.

Clear case of resistance to change it is then! 

No matter how successful anything is (whether it is a business or a sport), change is vital to keep it successful. 

Any evidence that ref errors have made football the most popular game in the world? 

[CRW5252]

19 hours ago, The Nal said:

If the future of VAR is players only semi celebrating goals like we saw with City at the weekend then its a no from me. Id rather some dodgy decisions and teams getting fucked over (EG Henry handball vs Ireland) than players scoring legit goals and then looking up a big screen to see if its stands before jogging back to the halfway line. 

I agree and I think the rules around VAR will be improved to ensure this is not the case. People just need to be patient, VAR is a massive change and getting it right will take time. 

[eFestivals]

25 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

Clear case of resistance to change it is then! 

nope. I've got no problem with goal-line technology as one example of a change I'm happy to accept. It's instantaneous, and 100% free of subjectivism.

I have huge problems with the justification for VAR being given here, because that says "every rule must be 100% enforced" - which means that the extent of VAR isn't finished yet, and there's even more slow-downs of the game to come.

It's the slow-down of the game that's my biggest concern about VAR.

 

Quote

No matter how successful anything is (whether it is a business or a sport), change is vital to keep it successful. 

but change for change's sake is not.

VAR is being done because it can be, and not because a full evaluation of the effects on the game has been done to prove it a worthwhile change.

And it's something that been driven from a self-serving club perspective - to try to take away the lucky wins by more-lowly teams, which feeds into a huge part of footie's popularity. It means the hope of winning for lesser teams is reduced and consequently so is the (overall) interest of the fans of those teams.

Quote

Any evidence that ref errors have made football the most popular game in the world? 

The evidence is that the game as it has been has made football the most popular game in the world.

And very logically, changing how the game plays out gets to mean that it's popularity might change too - but VAR advocates never mention that side, just how they feel VAR will benefit the results of the team they support.

Would it have become that most popular game with fewer talking points and less hope for a win by lower teams? Who knows, but it's a very reasonable consideration to think over.

Edited August 14, 2019 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

I agree and I think the rules around VAR will be improved to ensure this is not the case.

 - how do you think that can happen?

If goals are up for review then given the game that football is, that review can *never* be anything like instantaneous.
(they might get close to that with some goals but not for every goal).

Which means fans won't know if it's a goal or not or whether to celebrate or not. That's a fixed consequence of review.

Edited August 14, 2019 by eFestivals

[pink_triangle]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

It's the slow-down of the game that's my biggest concern about VAR.

That's my concern as well.  A lot of people say that VAR will get quicker over time. My view is that overall it will get slower, because once the genie is out of the bottle there will be a push to use if for different things. 

[eastynh]

If they put the replays up on the big screen in the ground, the fans there will not care about the delay and it will add to the tension.

[eastynh]

Or have a review system like cricket.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, eastynh said:

If they put the replays up on the big screen in the ground, the fans there will not care about the delay and it will add to the tension.

delays delays delays.

A mate of mine was living in California during the '94 WC, and went to a number of games. Like a lot of those who bought the tickets - Europeans and South Americans living in the USA - he took along Americans who knew nothing about football.

Those americans came away wowwed by "the athleticism" and "the speed of the game". It was those things which appealled to them when they were seeing football for the very first time.

[Wooderson]

If getting results more correct is improved by VAR, great. If this stops "lucky" wins - that means it is stopping inaccuracy. Good.

Ive never once sat watching a game in 35 years and thought "fuck that ref had too good a game- if only he was a bit worse this 0-0 wouldve been a classic".

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

delays delays delays.

A mate of mine was living in California during the '94 WC, and went to a number of games. Like a lot of those who bought the tickets - Europeans and South Americans living in the USA - he took along Americans who knew nothing about football.

Those americans came away wowwed by "the athleticism" and "the speed of the game". It was those things which appealled to them when they were seeing football for the very first time.

It was great drama when the goal was disallowed at the Etihad against Spurs last season. Yes my team was on the wrong end of the decision but I have never known an atmosphere and change of emotion at a football match ever.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Wooderson said:

If getting results more correct is improved by VAR, great. If this stops "lucky" wins - that means it is stopping inaccuracy. Good.

Ive never once sat watching a game in 35 years and thought "fuck that ref had too good a game- if only he was a bit worse this 0-0 wouldve been a classic".

Moron.  

Any ref errors have been a natural consequence of the game since it started. And those errors are comparitively few and mostly inconsequential - it's the fact we see so many games via TV that causes us to think of them as a bigger problem than they really are.

And wins - lucky or not - are what feeds the hope of the vast majority of football fans, who aren't used to watching their team win 3 out of every 4. 

If the results always go to form because luck is taken out of it, there is only the expectation of losing for many week after week after week - and that's not something that's going to attract new fans for those weaker clubs.

[Wooderson]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Moron.  

 

Nice. Real nice.

[pryce]

not only the emotion being sapped out of scoring a goal (especially any goal from a corner) but its also how much its geared towards disallowing goals

if a corner is swung in and the ref misses a tug from the defender, then play goes on and its not a penalty.

if a corner is swung in and scored and the ref misses a tug from an attacker then its disallowed .

 

man city fans were calling into 5live and said they would never be able to celebrate with that much emotion like winning the league in the last minute a few years back. 

 

also I am concerned with this new view point that a disallowed goal will now take over the joy of scoring a goal at grounds, that not football in my opinion .

 

goals in Germany are celebrated so lazily, its such a strange experience. the crowd will be singing and bouncing, then a goal is scored, most people nervously clap and In the ultra section its cheered very strangely and less quietly than normal passage of plays. 

 

[santowhir]

VAR for offside is brilliant. VAR for a decision which is still open to interpretation or debate is not so great, it doesn't solve anything.

[The Nal]

Preserving the passion and importance of a goal being scored is the number one priority. Its one of the few common global words. "Goal, "Gol".

 Both of Maradonas goals vs England in 86 would've been disallowed with VAR for example. First one fair enough obvs. 

[Wooderson]

8 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Preserving the passion and importance of a goal being scored is the number one priority. Its one of the few common global words. "Goal, "Gol".

 Both of Maradonas goals vs England in 86 would've been disallowed with VAR for example. First one fair enough obvs. 

The number one priority is the result being accurate/as close as possible to accurate. Anything else is shite. Yay! We celebrated our goal, but lost unfairly. Yay!

[Gnomicide]

1 hour ago, Hugh Jass said:

The European Super Cup somehow manages to hold even less interest than the Charity Shield.

Obviously I have some interest because my team is involved but I would usually give less than 2 shits about it. What I'm most interested in is seeing how the players treat the female ref. Henderson has at least one expletive strewn go at the ref every game, will he do the same tonight?

[thetime]

2 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

Henderson has at least one expletive strewn go at the ref every game, will he do the same tonight?

Well yeah he should, equality and all that.