The International Contingent

[Earth_pig]

Foos secret act but beegees  set 

[Matt42]

8 hours ago, Tartan_Glasto said:

If we were on top of our cases the same way NZ are then we could have saved billions in furlough by having short snap lockdowns instead of months of lockdowns which still resulted in over 130k deaths. 

I dunno how NZ/Aus will get over this without allowing a wave of people to be infected. If they lock down every time there is a case things will never change. 

[BlackZeppelin]

8 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Out of interest. Is this causing any AUS / NZ people to consider emigrating?

We have family in Aus that have seriously considered moving back to London because of this 🙂 do you reckon there will be a flood of refugees from this tyranny?

It prompted me to get our British passports renewed, just in case.

While we wouldn't emigrate as we have huge family connections here, if we were in the UK for 6- 12 months, I'd be quite happy.

I even put out some tentative feelers for work...

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, BlackZeppelin said:

It prompted me to get our British passports renewed, just in case.

While we wouldn't emigrate as we have huge family connections here, if we were in the UK for 6- 12 months, I'd be quite happy.

I even put out some tentative feelers for work...

Yeah it really shocked us when this side of our family put this forward but a lot of people feel like there is no end in sight to this and want to leave before the ship sinks. 

they believe that the NZ/Aus governments are drunk on power

Edited August 17, 2021 by Matt42

[BlackZeppelin]

23 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah it really shocked us when this side of our family put this forward but a lot of people feel like there is no end in sight to this and want to leave before the ship sinks. 

they believe that the NZ/Aus governments are drunk on power

It's difficult in that we are weirdly prisoners of our own success in keeping numbers so low.

The Politicians have been generally praised for keeping deaths to under a thousand etc

(The Western Australian premier has gone power mad and is almost a separatist - running his own little dictatorship in Perth.)

So now they are wedded to virtually no infections and no deaths, but of course that is impossible.

At some point the PM will have to open borders and in doing so, tell the populace to expect numbers to climb. When that happens the backash will be enormous.

So we have this 80% vaccination figure that is supposed to trigger an opening up - I remain sceptical.

[Earth_pig]

54 minutes ago, Earth_pig said:

Foos secret act but beegees  set 

Sorry I don’t know how I posted this in the wrong place 

[kalifire]

2 hours ago, Matt42 said:

I dunno how NZ/Aus will get over this without allowing a wave of people to be infected. If they lock down every time there is a case things will never change. 

They view vaccination as the game changer. Until they've reached at least 70% of the population being vaccinated, their approach is going to focus on cases, and that will mean sporadic lockdowns where outbreaks occur for the next few months.

It sounds like your family here have some strong views on the subject, but I think it's a stretch to say anyone is "drunk on power" or to describe the situation as tyrannical. The fact is that it's proven to be a successful way of keeping cases extremely low. It can come at great cost to personal freedom and the economy, and we should not be in this situation, but that's not the fault of State premiers who make decisions about lockdowns - it's the incompetence of the federal government's vaccination roll out.

We have 3-4 months of this to go, then I think we'll all need to brace ourselves and let Covid do its thing. That will be an enormous adjustment for people here and in NZ - we're in a completely difference headspace to the UK and most other countries who've had high case numbers and huge amounts of death. But the vaccines work, and we will need to hold on to that.

[John the Moth]

Barring the odd week, we’ve had over 12 months of beaches, bars, gigs, sports, holidays...

the tyranny is really becoming unbearable.

Edited August 18, 2021 by John the Moth

[nicnzl]

4 hours ago, Matt42 said:

Out of interest. Is this causing any AUS / NZ people to consider emigrating?

We have family in Aus that have seriously considered moving back to London because of this 🙂 do you reckon there will be a flood of refugees from this tyranny?

There's no country in the world I would rather be in right now than NZ! Don't believe the word of the often vocal minority.

I don't think people realise how good we've had it. Other than the first 5 week lockdown when Covid first started, this is the first time anyone outside of Auckland has been in lockdown since then.  Yes we can't travel overseas without having to spend 2 weeks in managed isolation on the return, but other that I've been on decent holidays around NZ five times since May 2020, pubs have been open like normal, I've hung out with my friends without masks like normal, I've been to packed gigs and festivals, and our country has had a total of 26 covid related deaths. In fact our mortality rate in NZ decreased last year.  People in some Aus states might have different feelings as they've had multiple lockdowns.

We have a vaccination plan, and despite what some people say, it is going pretty much to plan.  We've struggled to secure vaccines as easily as harder hit countries so only now is our supply ramping up to levels where we can start vaccinating in greater numbers. By the end of the year, everyone in country will have the opportunity to have been vaccinated.  After that we can start looking at ways to open back up to the world.  Provided the Lambda variant or some other vaccine resistant variant doesn't start taking over of course.

[nicnzl]

1 minute ago, John the Moth said:

Barring the odd week, we’ve had over 12 months of beaches, bars, gigs, sports, holidays...

the tyranny is really becoming unbearable.

Hahaha absolutely this and in a lot less words than I needed!

[John the Moth]

3 minutes ago, nicnzl said:

Hahaha absolutely this and in a lot less words than I needed!

😁

[Matt42]

4 hours ago, John the Moth said:

Barring the odd week, we’ve had over 12 months of beaches, bars, gigs, sports, holidays...

the tyranny is really becoming unbearable.

Why do a lot of people talk like having family in different countries that they are separated from is something people should stop whinging about? To some it’s more important than all of those things. Can’t enjoy those things if you miss the people you care about the most.

[John the Moth]

41 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Why do a lot of people talk like having family in different countries that they are separated from is something people should stop whinging about? To some it’s more important than all of those things. Can’t enjoy those things if you miss the people you care about the most.

Twisting words there a bit aren’t you? I never said missing family is not important and to stop whinging about it. I didn’t come close to mentioning those things. For the record most of my family is in the UK, but I’m not gonna share my thoughts on that on here.

I was referencing your points of the NZ government being tyrannical and power mad, which is objectively false.

But if you have to jump tracks to save face and avoid acknowledging that some horseshit you’ve spouted has been called out, then carry on. I’ll not be losing any sleep over it 🤪

 

[nicnzl]

12 hours ago, Matt42 said:

Why do a lot of people talk like having family in different countries that they are separated from is something people should stop whinging about? To some it’s more important than all of those things. Can’t enjoy those things if you miss the people you care about the most.

Maybe if some other countries *cough cough UK* had of done a better job themselves, then this wouldn't be an issue but we're not about to fuck over our people and economy just so some people can reunite with family and friends. NZ still allows people to leave the country, so technically it is possible anyway.

[kalifire]

Everyone 16 and up can get a vaccine from the end of the month in Australia. That’s good. It means we’re making progress. Half of Australia ages 16+ has now had at least one shot. We’re on track to reach the point of re-opening by December. 

Interestingly, despite the lockdowns in NSW, Gladys Berejiklian (State Premier) is talking up the idea of just living with Covid. That’s in stark contrast to every other State Premier, who are all about elimination until the magic 70-80%. A little premature from her, I think. But we’ll eventually need to take on that mindset. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

On 8/18/2021 at 3:19 AM, John the Moth said:

Barring the odd week, we’ve had over 12 months of beaches, bars, gigs, sports, holidays...

the tyranny is really becoming unbearable.

Yes reckon NZ has got it right.  My daughter and family think so.  Nows the time to ramp up the vaccine roll out and I would include secondary school kids in that.  Then a gradual open up of international travel .  Such a beautiful and diverse country for staycation holidays why would anyone want to go elsewhere anyway apart of course for Glastonbury!  

[The other Bellboy]

5 hours ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Yes reckon NZ has got it right.  My daughter and family think so.  Nows the time to ramp up the vaccine roll out and I would include secondary school kids in that.  Then a gradual open up of international travel .  Such a beautiful and diverse country for staycation holidays why would anyone want to go elsewhere anyway apart of course for Glastonbury!  

It was announced yesterday that 12 - 15 year olds can now get the vaccine and there is a really big push to get as many done as possible, we were too complacent overall and a target by the end of the year for all being offerred, hopefully that will reduce by a month or so now.

[kalifire]

Interesting article from ABC Australia today, giving a forecast of when States will reach 60%, 70% and 80% vaccination levels based on current rates.

[John the Moth]

6 hours ago, kalifire said:

Interesting article from ABC Australia today, giving a forecast of when States will reach 60%, 70% and 80% vaccination levels based on current rates.

Not sure how that compares to the original plan, but those dates are more encouraging than I would have guessed. Looking good for more open travel next year, Just this current blip to get through...

[John the Moth]

We already know NZ will pilot programs later this year to allow vaccinated persons to travel and isolate at home on return.

Now the health minister has just said “don’t expect to wait 12-18 months for the borders to open”.

Probably the vaguest, most non-committal, unhelpful statement he could’ve come out with. Literally tells us nothing. 🤷🏼

[kalifire]

Pleased to see Australia have formalised their plans to open up international travel to vaccinated Australian citizens and permanent residents, on a state by state basis, when we reach 80% fully vaccinated.

I’ll be looking to book my flights for June over Christmas/NY after travel has opened up again. Feeling quite confident about it all now. 

[Mark H]

13 hours ago, kalifire said:

Pleased to see Australia have formalised their plans to open up international travel to vaccinated Australian citizens and permanent residents, on a state by state basis, when we reach 80% fully vaccinated.

I’ll be looking to book my flights for June over Christmas/NY after travel has opened up again. Feeling quite confident about it all now. 

Seems promising! Booking your flights will make this seem very real.

I don’t think NZ will be able to hold off much longer after Australia opens up for vaccinated travellers so we might get there too!

Some of the unknowns to me is how affective my vaccine will still be come June, if boosters will be offered before then and if travel will be possible if not..

[kalifire]

1 hour ago, Mark H said:

Some of the unknowns to me is how affective my vaccine will still be come June, if boosters will be offered before then and if travel will be possible if not..

Yeah these are valid concerns. It’ll definitely be worth getting a flexible ticket. 

[The other Bellboy]

My personal view is that NZ has realised that we cannot beat this Delta variant, lockdowns just aren't working the way they used too and people in Auckland are really fed up, protests are getting worse and the pressure is mounting for a change in tack. We will soon be accepting the fact that we have to live with the virus and life here will be very different soon. Looking at the figures for the UK since Freedom day has been interesting and in some ways prove how good the vaccination option is, and add to that the new drug that's about to come along for treatment and all of this will make it impossible to the government to get good compliance with any future lockdowns.

Seeing all of this has made me think about when we could travel back for holidays and even start to think about when moving back for good could be an option. if we did book anything though - it would definitely be with flexible tickets and insurance!

[John the Moth]

47 minutes ago, The other Bellboy said:

My personal view is that NZ has realised that we cannot beat this Delta variant, lockdowns just aren't working the way they used too and people in Auckland are really fed up, protests are getting worse and the pressure is mounting for a change in tack. We will soon be accepting the fact that we have to live with the virus and life here will be very different soon. Looking at the figures for the UK since Freedom day has been interesting and in some ways prove how good the vaccination option is, and add to that the new drug that's about to come along for treatment and all of this will make it impossible to the government to get good compliance with any future lockdowns.

Seeing all of this has made me think about when we could travel back for holidays and even start to think about when moving back for good could be an option. if we did book anything though - it would definitely be with flexible tickets and insurance!

Seems like a fair assessment. There’s a way forward on the table now though and it will be awesome to have gotten to open borders without the mortality rates seen elsewhere.

Been a tough road though, Mrs Moth’s income has been exactly zero since lockdown started.