Download 2021

[Spiral_Low]

The problem isn't really Download's per say. Its in the wider rock and metal industry. Its getting hard for Download type bands to get big to the stage where they can headline festivals. Like bands can get good sucess and get up to acedemy level and some even up to limited arena level (Ghost, Halestorm etc) , but no one is getting up to Slipknot or SOAD level atm (let alone Metallica or Maiden level).

Thats just how the scene seems to be wired atm - its very healthy in terms of an abundance of bands and solid fanbase, but there is no 'mainstream' exposure like happened in the 80's or early 90's (grunge) or nu-metal then emo in early 2000's. So not dragging new fans in like it did then (take note for example how few rock/metal bands get featured in action movie soundtracks atm - nu metal had so many). 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Spiral_Low

[thewayiam]

29 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

The problem isn't really Download's per say. Its in the wider rock and metal industry. Its getting hard for Download type bands to get big to the stage where they can headline festivals. Like bands can get good sucess and get up to acedemy level and some even up to limited arena level (Ghost, Halestorm etc) , but no one is getting up to Slipknot or SOAD level atm (let alone Metallica or Maiden level).

Thats just how the scene seems to be wired atm - its very healthy in terms of an abundance of bands and solid fanbase, but there is no 'mainstream' exposure like happened in the 80's or early 90's (grunge) or nu-metal then emo in early 2000's. So not dragging new fans in like it did then (take note for example how few rock/metal bands get featured in action movie soundtracks atm - nu metal had so many). 

I don't see anyone reaching Maiden or Metallica level and you couldn't begrudge that. I mean when you look at Download headliners, The Prodigy for eg at MK Bowl was a storming success, whereas I've seen enough suggestions that Slipknot's attempt with Knotfest wasn't.

[FloorFiller]

2 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

The problem isn't really Download's per say. Its in the wider rock and metal industry. Its getting hard for Download type bands to get big to the stage where they can headline festivals. Like bands can get good sucess and get up to acedemy level and some even up to limited arena level (Ghost, Halestorm etc) , but no one is getting up to Slipknot or SOAD level atm (let alone Metallica or Maiden level).

Thats just how the scene seems to be wired atm - its very healthy in terms of an abundance of bands and solid fanbase, but there is no 'mainstream' exposure like happened in the 80's or early 90's (grunge) or nu-metal then emo in early 2000's. So not dragging new fans in like it did then (take note for example how few rock/metal bands get featured in action movie soundtracks atm - nu metal had so many). 

Yep whereas other festivals like R&L, Glastonbury etc have been able to pivot away from rock music in its commercial slump and start booking more hip hop, pop, and other genres currently popular to headline, festivals like Download that rely solely on a currently commercially desolate genre are a bit fucked, and for a festival like Download whose top tier was already looking stale it’s only gonna get worse.

At this rate, it’s hard to imagine Downloads headliner trio looking any different than it currently does in a decade or so. Maybe they’ll gain one new headliner to rotate every couple of years. 

[thewayiam]

1 hour ago, FloorFiller said:

Yep whereas other festivals like R&L, Glastonbury etc have been able to pivot away from rock music in its commercial slump and start booking more hip hop, pop, and other genres currently popular to headline, festivals like Download that rely solely on a currently commercially desolate genre are a bit fucked, and for a festival like Download whose top tier was already looking stale it’s only gonna get worse.

At this rate, it’s hard to imagine Downloads headliner trio looking any different than it currently does in a decade or so. Maybe they’ll gain one new headliner to rotate every couple of years. 

I think had things gone different with The Prodigy that was one and had Pendulum not broken up that may have been another as they couldn't have been far away. Their return didn't generate what I thought it would. If he has given BMTH the shot though instead of pushing them down again in favour of a big one I think he'd have one. It's not like one year without Maiden was going to stop them playing again or reignite Sonisphere.

[jump]

8 hours ago, thewayiam said:

I don't see anyone reaching Maiden or Metallica level and you couldn't begrudge that. I mean when you look at Download headliners, The Prodigy for eg at MK Bowl was a storming success, whereas I've seen enough suggestions that Slipknot's attempt with Knotfest wasn't.

Seems abit unfair to single out Knotfest when it was cancelled before they even announced the line up.

People on here seem too eager to say things like it didn’t sell out without actually knowing what it did sell.

Edited July 26, 2020 by jump

[thewayiam]

10 hours ago, jump said:

Seems abit unfair to single out Knotfest when it was cancelled before they even announced the line up.

People on here seem too eager to say things like it didn’t sell out without actually knowing what it did sell.

Someone on here who seemed legit seemed to be aware that sales weren't all that and others took notice of what he'd said too. It's not like it's something to waste your time on doing of not and it was off the back of a big arena tour. 

As said with Slipknot, yes they are a big band but they aren't a bonafide headliner at every event they would play. Cross comparison for example....Muse headlined Reading and Download as did Biffy Clyro as have The Prodigy many years back. Slipknot however would not get the slot at Reading as they wouldn't trust it.....even when it was more heavier lineups.

[Andre91]

24 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

Someone on here who seemed legit seemed to be aware that sales weren't all that and others took notice of what he'd said too. It's not like it's something to waste your time on doing of not and it was off the back of a big arena tour. 

As said with Slipknot, yes they are a big band but they aren't a bonafide headliner at every event they would play. Cross comparison for example....Muse headlined Reading and Download as did Biffy Clyro as have The Prodigy many years back. Slipknot however would not get the slot at Reading as they wouldn't trust it.....even when it was more heavier lineups.

In the UK, if Slipknot play somewhere, they headline. If Slipknot were booked to play R&L, they would headline, no question. They are the biggest metal band post-Metallica. 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

20 hours ago, thewayiam said:

 whereas I've seen enough suggestions that Slipknot's attempt with Knotfest wasn't.

A year after headlining Download, months after an arena tour, no undercard announced and pretty steep ticket prices, not a surprise. 

It would have sold well closer to the time with a decent undercard. Slipknot are not up for debate, they're a headlining band in the UK & when Metallica, Maiden etc. have all retired Slipknot will probably be the biggest option Dowload has. 

[thewayiam]

29 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

A year after headlining Download, months after an arena tour, no undercard announced and pretty steep ticket prices, not a surprise. 

It would have sold well closer to the time with a decent undercard. Slipknot are not up for debate, they're a headlining band in the UK & when Metallica, Maiden etc. have all retired Slipknot will probably be the biggest option Dowload has. 

I agree but that doesnt put them on that level. If it wasn't up for debate and Reading have booked Metallica even as close as 2015 and I reckon would again. Hell Glastonbury have booked them but Reading haven't.

Ticket prices were bonkers, i get that it's the going rate for big outdoor shows but they do fluctuate from like £75 to £90 and they'd have helped themselves by going lower end. It's not as if they've ever sold out Download Day Tickets at £85 with a full card either. Obviously a band announced to support would have helped. 

[thewayiam]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

In the UK, if Slipknot play somewhere, they headline. If Slipknot were booked to play R&L, they would headline, no question. They are the biggest metal band post-Metallica. 

The point is though they are probably not seen by Reading as that or why not use them? No one is doubting they are, that doesn't mean they are the pull necessarily overall. Take Green Day for eg, played Emirates the same year they sold out Reading too, something I'd imagine Metallica at Reading and Eninem for eg getting away with earlier in the summer as they sell Reading quick. Hell even RHCP sold their Reading Day quick last time.

[Spiral_Low]

19 hours ago, FloorFiller said:

Yep whereas other festivals like R&L, Glastonbury etc have been able to pivot away from rock music in its commercial slump and start booking more hip hop, pop, and other genres currently popular to headline, festivals like Download that rely solely on a currently commercially desolate genre are a bit fucked, and for a festival like Download whose top tier was already looking stale it’s only gonna get worse.

At this rate, it’s hard to imagine Downloads headliner trio looking any different than it currently does in a decade or so. Maybe they’ll gain one new headliner to rotate every couple of years. 

Aye. In terms of gaining a new headliner....they are probably looking at a few and getting frustrated their albums aren't taking off in the needed way. A band like Halestorm has the ingrediants I think, catchy hard rock that appeals across the rock n metal spectrum. But it seems like a big battle just to get them heard by people. Need the rock club nights (when they come back) to play them frequently, need radio stations to push them etc. 

[Andre91]

30 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

The point is though they are probably not seen by Reading as that or why not use them? No one is doubting they are, that doesn't mean they are the pull necessarily overall. Take Green Day for eg, played Emirates the same year they sold out Reading too, something I'd imagine Metallica at Reading and Eninem for eg getting away with earlier in the summer as they sell Reading quick. Hell even RHCP sold their Reading Day quick last time.

R&L probably look at Slipknot as not being the right fit for their festival because they’re heavier than any headliner they’ve had before, which is why they haven’t booked them. They don’t look at them and think ‘Yeah, these aren’t headliner sized’. 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

1 minute ago, Andre91 said:

R&L probably look at Slipknot as not being the right fit for their festival because they’re heavier than any headliner they’ve had before, which is why they haven’t booked them. They don’t look at them and think ‘Yeah, these aren’t headliner sized’. 

Which is the same reason why they haven't booked Rammstein, Maiden, etc. RATM & Metallica are different in that they have a much broader cross over appeal.

Also on the topic of Download day tickets, Download has a ridiculously large arena capacity, it hardly ever sells out. Slipknot obviously shift enough tickets for Livenation to book them every time they're available. 

[thewayiam]

1 minute ago, Andre91 said:

R&L probably look at Slipknot as not being the right fit for their festival because they’re heavier than any headliner they’ve had before, which is why they haven’t booked them. They don’t look at them and think ‘Yeah, these aren’t headliner sized’. 

Okay. SOAD are a headliner seemingly everywhere they play bar Reading where they accepted a sub. They are a heavy band yet when they played it was a time when Slipknot could have headlined. They've had BMTH sub as well. 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

4 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

Okay. SOAD are a headliner seemingly everywhere they play bar Reading where they accepted a sub. They are a heavy band yet when they played it was a time when Slipknot could have headlined. They've had BMTH sub as well. 

You do realise Download & R&L are essentially run by the same company right? They'll book what they can where they can to make the most profit. Slipknot will shift more tickets at Download than at R&L because it's their core audience. Just like someone like Muse or Biffy Clyro are likely to do the opposite. It doesn't mean that Slipknot aren't capable of headlining R&L, it's more a point of why would they when they keep shifting big numbers for Livenation when they book them at Download. (Also Download struggles for headline size acts, R&L has a wider pool, go figure.)

[thewayiam]

5 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

You do realise Download & R&L are essentially run by the same company right? They'll book what they can where they can to make the most profit. Slipknot will shift more tickets at Download than at R&L because it's their core audience. Just like someone like Muse or Biffy Clyro are likely to do the opposite. It doesn't mean that Slipknot aren't capable of headlining R&L, it's more a point of why would they when they keep shifting big numbers for Livenation when they book them at Download. (Also Download struggles for headline size acts, R&L has a wider pool, go figure.)

You've contradicted yourself here. Why would Live Nation book Muse and Biffy Clyro for Download, why not just Reading where they can sell it out?

Slipknot for example don't need a crazy metal lineup everytime to sell well, there are plenty I know would attend if it just had similar orientated bands. Take a Reading Day recently that had Skindred, Sum 41, Papa Roach and Pendulum....a day that sold out at that. Put one more rockier band on that main stage in the day and it should sell well but I'm guessing they don't think enough. Songs like Wait and Bleed, My Plague, Left Behind and screamy songs if you like can mix with bands that are just straight heavy. If anything, by just booking thise bands under them it might stagnate sales. Look at Korn for example, they did an area tour with Korn supporting, they are nu metal but far from heavy so if that's okay on a tour it could be good to try it for a day.

[Spiral_Low]

I think Reading/Leeds and Download are very different these days in terms of crowds, so I don't really like to comapre them bandwise. Reading/Leeds has becone very much a 18 to 21 right of passage type of fest. Download has established crowd. 

[Andre91]

30 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

I think Reading/Leeds and Download are very different these days in terms of crowds, so I don't really like to comapre them bandwise. Reading/Leeds has becone very much a 18 to 21 right of passage type of fest. Download has established crowd. 

Reading and Leeds has been that festival since before Download existed. Simply, they’re two very different festivals aimed at very different groups. Some acts can play both seamlessly, some go down better at one than the other and some bands just can’t play both because they aren’t aimed at one of the target audiences. 
 

All of this from a suggestion that Slipknot are anything but a headliner in the UK  

[rivalschools.price]

8 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

Which is the same reason why they haven't booked Rammstein, Maiden, etc. RATM & Metallica are different in that they have a much broader cross over appeal.

Also on the topic of Download day tickets, Download has a ridiculously large arena capacity, it hardly ever sells out. Slipknot obviously shift enough tickets for Livenation to book them every time they're available. 

I was going to correct you by saying that it want that long ago that I saw Maiden at Reading but when I checked it was 14 years ago haha.

[Spiral_Low]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

Reading and Leeds has been that festival since before Download existed. Simply, they’re two very different festivals aimed at very different groups. Some acts can play both seamlessly, some go down better at one than the other and some bands just can’t play both because they aren’t aimed at one of the target audiences. 
 

All of this from a suggestion that Slipknot are anything but a headliner in the UK  

True that. 

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

4 hours ago, thewayiam said:

You've contradicted yourself here. Why would Live Nation book Muse and Biffy Clyro for Download, why not just Reading where they can sell it out?

No, you missed the point as you always do. R&L do not struggle for headliners, Download do. 

 

[Andre91]

Just to back up @Frankly Mr Shankly’s above point, I’ve been going to Leeds Festival since 2010. In that time (2010-2020), they have had 19 headliners make their first appearance headlining the festival, 14 of which could be considered as ‘first time headliners’ making the step up to headline any UK festival at the time. 
 

Download, in that same period, has had 9 headliners make their first appearance headlining Download but only one (Avenged Sevenfold in 2014) that could be considered a ‘first time headliner’ in the UK. 
 

I’m going to avoid talking about future headliners and Download from now on because I find it exhausting. Everyone knows they don’t care about making headliners for the future, everyone knows they don’t do enough to ensure they have a bigger pool of headliners for the future and until they start doing stuff to indicate they do, there’s nothing to talk about. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Andre91

[RarerThanDandyB]

When’s this bloody announcement. 

[ramusgrove]

Greenfield Festival in Switzerland has announced part of its lineup for the same weekend as Download

[thewayiam]

1 hour ago, ramusgrove said:

Greenfield Festival in Switzerland has announced part of its lineup for the same weekend as Download

Be surpised if Volbeat, Rise Against, The Offspring, and The Distillers weren't  all back. Billy Talent are at SD, I'd expect Lagwagon to be too as well as Mayday Parade. Bad Religion would be good too but they played SD the previous year. Getting them 3rd under Offspring and Distillers would be great but they subbed 2nd last time I think.