JK Rowling

[feral chile]

8 hours ago, eFestivals said:

That's an irrelevant argument from the woman's side of things. Saying "others are abused worse than women" doesn't cut it.

There's people advocating that women are opened up to greater abuse than currently. It's hardly a surprise they're not keen.

 

I agree.

The problem is that trans activists don't accept that argument, and want 'self-defined' to be the deciding factor.

Mmmm.....

Or.....opening up the safe space to fellow targets of male abuse.

[feral chile]

Can anyone get behind the Sunday Times paywall to see if the changing room data is shown?

I can't find it anywhere, and I have multiple questions.

[feral chile]

3 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Well more women transition to men than vice versa. But it's the men who transition who are talked about more.

That's interesting, I didn't know that.

I had noticed that trans women are the concern. I nearly added some points to address it, but it would have been an afterthought, dishonest tokenism, so I left it out.

I'm trying to think of the practicalities too. Trans men and women using the toilets would only get challenged if they were in the "wrong" one.

A lot of the time we would be unaware.

But as bunique's link shows, trans people don't want to, or can't, "pass" as their self defined gender.

I'm not sure about whether they  should.

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

20 hours ago, feral chile said:

by refusing to accept their socially constructed identity.

is it socially constructed? Or is it personally constructed?  

[eFestivals]

15 hours ago, feral chile said:

But as bunique's link shows, trans people don't want to, or can't, "pass" as their self defined gender.

I'm not sure about whether they  should.

if they're identifying as trans, then how are they the fully-woman they want the law to recognise them as? Women don't identify as trans.

There's a logical conflict there.

[feral chile]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

if they're identifying as trans, then how are they the fully-woman they want the law to recognise them as? Women don't identify as trans.

There's a logical conflict there.

Well I'm not really the right person to answer, as not trans, but I would have thought in acknowledgement of the mismatch of their biological sex and gender?

[feral chile]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

is it socially constructed? Or is it personally constructed?  

Same thing in a way.

Maybe.

Are they breaking away from their socialisation or reacting to it?

[viberunner]

Here's the funny thing, gender and sex were the same thing (really, still are) until sexologist John Money decided to play social constructionist. An academic without an agenda would create an academic term "self-asserted gender" or suchlike, but instead he decided to hijack the synonym of sex because he knew sex had the less-than-polite connotation of coitus. So they are the same unless you agree with John Money: and he was such a poor clinician his patients committed suicide. Anyway his bullshit would have died-out along with his patients except the radical end of feminist theory picked-up on hit as, if gender can be said to be socially constructed then that gives them a tool for social change.

Anyway, we're not going to turn the clock back on that so instead of "misgendering" anyone I never make an assumption of gender and I never make a reference to their gender. I only biologically sex people. So a MIF (male-identifying-female) claims their gender is female, fine, I say "alright mister" because I only reference their sex.

[feral chile]

8 hours ago, viberunner said:

Here's the funny thing, gender and sex were the same thing (really, still are) until sexologist John Money decided to play social constructionist. An academic without an agenda would create an academic term "self-asserted gender" or suchlike, but instead he decided to hijack the synonym of sex because he knew sex had the less-than-polite connotation of coitus. So they are the same unless you agree with John Money: and he was such a poor clinician his patients committed suicide. Anyway his bullshit would have died-out along with his patients except the radical end of feminist theory picked-up on hit as, if gender can be said to be socially constructed then that gives them a tool for social change.

Anyway, we're not going to turn the clock back on that so instead of "misgendering" anyone I never make an assumption of gender and I never make a reference to their gender. I only biologically sex people. So a MIF (male-identifying-female) claims their gender is female, fine, I say "alright mister" because I only reference their sex.

Why reference their sex? Why not call them by their name, including chosen title?

If they wanted me to call them "Miss Gendered" that's what I'd call them 

Who cares if they have a dick? It should be irrelevant unless you're hoping/expecting to engage with it.

Plus, I dread to think what you do to determine the sex of everyone you meet 🤣

Edited April 22, 2020 by feral chile