When will this shit end?

[Cream Soda]

My 80 year old nan with a breathing condition has today just received her letter telling her to shield for 12 weeks!!  Obviously she has been shielding anyway but it does make me worry for others out there who may not have been.

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

My 80 year old nan with a breathing condition has today just received her letter telling her to shield for 12 weeks!!  Obviously she has been shielding anyway but it does make me worry for others out there who may not have been.

I know of someone on this forum who got theirs a week or so ago ... it’s not very good ... but it’s guess as they go through the lists they find people and also some will get reclassified ... I’m hoping that doesn’t mean the block of all diabetics fall under that soon 

[jparx]

Christ, that's no good. So the letter has come about 8 weeks late?!

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Eeeek!  Paging @Toilet Duck!

Haven’t actually read the paper yet, will glance through it and report back!

[zahidf]

 

 

 

[Cream Soda]

4 minutes ago, jparx said:

Christ, that's no good. So the letter has come about 8 weeks late?!

Yes.  And my nan is now taking it literally and thinking she has to restart the 12 weeks again today even though she's shielded from day 1.  Not that she would be going anywhere anyway, but she won't even open the window more than an inch when my mum takes her shopping round let alone allow her to sit in the back garden as she's so scared bless her 😞

[gizmoman]

4 hours ago, Radiochicken said:

Struggling with the details as a mere mortal, but not very encouraging reading this...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/05/16/did-the-oxford-covid-vaccine-work-in-monkeys-not-really/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

Wow, so they are going ahead and manufacturing 30 million doses for the UK of a vaccine that doesn't even prevent the disease. At best in minimises the symptoms. The fact is that the vast majority don't get a bad form of the disease so the only people who would really benefit from this vaccine would be the elderly or compromised. It will be hard to make an argument to give otherwise healthy people a vaccine that doesn't actually stop them getting the disease.

[stuartbert two hats]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

 

 

The host of the excellent Stage Left podcast (https://www.thestageleftpodcast.com/) had coronavirus, with the associated loss of smell. He said that it was complete and total loss - he put some neat aftershave on his hand and sniffed it and "it was like water".

I've been paranoid, sniffing things for weeks - smell still all present and correct - so far!

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Wow, so they are going ahead and manufacturing 30 million doses for the UK of a vaccine that doesn't even prevent the disease. At best in minimises the symptoms. The fact is that the vast majority don't get a bad form of the disease so the only people who would really benefit from this vaccine would be the elderly or compromised. It will be hard to make an argument to give otherwise healthy people a vaccine that doesn't actually stop them getting the disease.

That's only one opinion on it. tbh if it minimises the symptoms from death to just being ill without needing hospitalization... that's fine!

[MEGABOWL]

2 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

Use of fear has clearly Been used before in this country and it’s obvious that it seems to work as a tactic unfortunately... the brexit vote was a clear example of this  

Of course, but they’ve a whole new Case Study now. How effective it’s been and how some people have reacted.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

2 hours ago, MEGABOWL said:

This is spot on. One of the dangers of Social Media during this episode is that bad news sticks while good news gets dismissed. There will be some fascinating studies to be had on Fear, and it worries me that any Government that way inclined now sees exactly how it can be used.

Absolutely, many examples of that unfortunately and that’s what sticks in people’s minds. Specific stories of young people dying, people that have been left with permanent lung damage/ongoing health issues, people who have been ‘reinfected’. It only takes one story on each to lead to the perception all of those things are widespread issues with the virus.

[Cream Soda]

12 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

It will be hard to make an argument to give otherwise healthy people a vaccine that doesn't actually stop them getting the disease.

I suppose that argument would only need to be made if the vaccine was mandatory.  Currently I would imagine it will be like the flu vaccine - recommended to certain groups and optional for others?

[gizmoman]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

That's only one opinion on it. tbh if it minimises the symptoms from death to just being ill without needing hospitalization... that's fine!

But younger healthy people don't die from it, the old and ill do, giving it to younger people would be pointless as they would still get the virus and could spread it, there would not be a benefit to taking the vaccine, all vaccines have a chance of a bad reaction so the risk would probably not be worthwhile.

[Toilet Duck]

So, I’ve had a quick read through both the paper and the opinion piece. Will go through it in more depth later (looking after the little one at the mo!)...

the key finding is that all unvaccinated animals developed pneumonia whereas none of the vaccinated animals did. Viral loads in the challenge were pretty high, maybe a good bit higher than you might be exposed to environmentally. But, bottom line, not a magic bullet, but one that converts a potentially fatal disease to a mildly uncomfortable one. Ironically, vaccination may make COVID “like a bad flu”. Given the option of this at the outset, I’d suspect uptake would have been fairly high. Given it as an option to exit restrictions, I’d expect that the be equally true.

the opinion piece suggests that more robust neutralising antibody responses are seen with live attenuated/subunit vaccines. The oxford one is a new type. Repeated vaccination may boost this (and has been included in a subset of trial volunteers for this reason). The GSK/Sanofi vaccine is the more traditional type, the Oxford one might get us over the hump, with a longer term solution coming down the line from GSK/Sanofi (or indeed the Chinese vaccine). 
 

all in all, not doom and gloom, justifies pushing ahead with the trial and if I was given the option of making sure I didn’t develop pneumonia should I be infected, but instead experienced a fairly standard coronavirus infection, then so long as safety was assured, it would be attractive.

[gizmoman]

8 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I suppose that argument would only need to be made if the vaccine was mandatory.  Currently I would imagine it will be like the flu vaccine - recommended to certain groups and optional for others?

That's right, will they need the 30 million doses they have already ordered? Doesn't seem likely to me.

[Homer]

12 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Absolutely, many examples of that unfortunately and that’s what sticks in people’s minds. Specific stories of young people dying, people that have been left with permanent lung damage/ongoing health issues, people who have been ‘reinfected’. It only takes one story on each to lead to the perception all of those things are widespread issues with the virus.

I watched Brexit: Uncivil War the other day. Said on there that Cambridge Analytica's algorithms are so sophisticated that Facebook can identify people who are falling out of love with their partners.

Watched a video on Friday of a news cameraman being abused at a protest in the States. Someone replied underneath saying that Russian bots can identify individuals who are ripe for 'radicalisation' and bombard them with suggestible propaganda. Then, ultimately, supply them with the info on how to cause civil unrest. Had a link to some 'patriot' who had tried to plant a pipebomb. Scary stuff!

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

But younger healthy people don't die from it, the old and ill do, giving it to younger people would be pointless as they would still get the virus and could spread it, there would not be a benefit to taking the vaccine, all vaccines have a chance of a bad reaction so the risk would probably not be worthwhile.

Its be like the flu jab: healthy people wont need it, the vulnerable would benefit from it being reduced in fatality. Doesnt matter if it spreads asymptomatically if it just results in non fatal outcomes 

[Cream Soda]

25 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

That's right, will they need the 30 million doses they have already ordered? Doesn't seem likely to me.

Although quite a few people who would never normally consider a flu vaccine might go for this one due to the fear factor.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Although quite a few people who would never normally consider a flu vaccine might go for this one due to the fear factor.

I know with the flu jab they write to the most vulnerable to encourage them to have it, both my parents do. I think I remember reading the uptake amongst who they write to is 75%.

At the last two companies over worked at (both maybe around 150 staff) they both offered the annual flu jab, you could pre book and a nurse would come in for a day and administer them. I’d never given it much thought but it must be something that’s pretty prevalent around the country. I was already surprised at the take up, with quite a few younger people having it. I personally never bothered and assumed they were having it just because it was there. So you’d assume a corona one would have a pretty big uptake.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

36 minutes ago, Homer said:

I watched Brexit: Uncivil War the other day. Said on there that Cambridge Analytica's algorithms are so sophisticated that Facebook can identify people who are falling out of love with their partners.

Watched a video on Friday of a news cameraman being abused at a protest in the States. Someone replied underneath saying that Russian bots can identify individuals who are ripe for 'radicalisation' and bombard them with suggestible propaganda. Then, ultimately, supply them with the info on how to cause civil unrest. Had a link to some 'patriot' who had tried to plant a pipebomb. Scary stuff!

Scary stuff indeed. That has reminded me I’ve got the Brexit doc on the list to watch, so I’ll bring that forward.

I was having a discussion on another forum about advertising, specifically the naming of sports stadiums. Many people were adamant they can’t be sold to, and something like that would never make them buy a specific product. Most people have no idea about what is going on around them and pretty much everything they read and consume is aimed to influence them and make them think a certain way.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[steviewevie]

Whole push to scare us into staying home being replaced with nothing to worry about now get back to work.

[Avalon_Fields]

7 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Scary stuff indeed. That has reminded me I’ve got the Brexit doc on the list to watch, so I’ll bring that forward.

I was having a discussion on another forum about advertising, specifically the naming of sports stadiums. Many people were adamant they can’t be sold to, and something like that would never make them buy a specific product. Most people have no idea about what is going on around them and pretty much everything they read and consume is aimed to influence them and make them think a certain way.

It's like, every day, the internet and social media becomes a little bit closer to The Matrix. I'm not saying (I think!) we are unknowingly all plugged in, but The Matrix effect grows...and grows.

[fred quimby]

11 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Scary stuff indeed. That has reminded me I’ve got the Brexit doc on the list to watch, so I’ll bring that forward.

I was having a discussion on another forum about advertising, specifically the naming of sports stadiums. Many people were adamant they can’t be sold to, and something like that would never make them buy a specific product. Most people have no idea about what is going on around them and pretty much everything they read and consume is aimed to influence them and make them think a certain way.

Well personally I think they are correct, I am the same and do not get influenced at all. Oddly I was just saying this to my sons Etihad and Emirate the other day

[semmtexx]

54 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

So, I’ve had a quick read through both the paper and the opinion piece. Will go through it in more depth later (looking after the little one at the mo!)...

the key finding is that all unvaccinated animals developed pneumonia whereas none of the vaccinated animals did. Viral loads in the challenge were pretty high, maybe a good bit higher than you might be exposed to environmentally. But, bottom line, not a magic bullet, but one that converts a potentially fatal disease to a mildly uncomfortable one. Ironically, vaccination may make COVID “like a bad flu”. Given the option of this at the outset, I’d suspect uptake would have been fairly high. Given it as an option to exit restrictions, I’d expect that the be equally true.

the opinion piece suggests that more robust neutralising antibody responses are seen with live attenuated/subunit vaccines. The oxford one is a new type. Repeated vaccination may boost this (and has been included in a subset of trial volunteers for this reason). The GSK/Sanofi vaccine is the more traditional type, the Oxford one might get us over the hump, with a longer term solution coming down the line from GSK/Sanofi (or indeed the Chinese vaccine). 
 

all in all, not doom and gloom, justifies pushing ahead with the trial and if I was given the option of making sure I didn’t develop pneumonia should I be infected, but instead experienced a fairly standard coronavirus infection, then so long as safety was assured, it would be attractive.

Had a quick scan too. As you say repeated immunisation may improve/plus possibly attenuation of response, so not all bad. 

My comment wasn't about this though. The sampling method involved rectal swabs. Imagine trying to rectally swab a creature with teeth this big! Eak!

[steviewevie]

that monkey has been eating wotsits.