When will this shit end?

[Toilet Duck]

4 minutes ago, Waterdeep said:

With so many infections worldwide, is there a chance we could get mutations that would defeat the previous antibody?

The virus is drifting, but not massively. In general (like other coronaviruses) it's pretty stable. Also, for the synthetic ones, the plan would be to use multiple antibodies to different parts of the virus...the chances of the virus mutating all the target regions would be extremely slim.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Toilet Duck

[Crazyfool01]

A practical question on face shields .... my work are issuing them for some but as long as you dont touch them can they be used for an extended period of time ? and refused once cleaned thoroughly ...... and do shields provide any protection to the user if used sensibly .. logic tells me they do @Toilet Duck ? 

Edited May 20, 2020 by crazyfool1

[efcfanwirral]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/19/uk-government-pandemic

This article pretty much sums up the response and reasons for it. Won't make a difference due to its echo chamber location and readership but sounds about right 

[Waterdeep]

19 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

The virus is drifting, but not massively. In general (like other coronaviruses) it's pretty stable. Also, for the synthetic ones, the plan would be to use multiple antibodies to different parts of the virus...the chances of the virus mutating all the target regions would be extremely slim.

If the spike mutates in the right way then those neutralising antibodies will no longer neutralise? They neutralised strain 1, then strain 2 infects and benefits from ADE? It seems like it's not common but it was an issue when attempts were made to make a vaccine for SARS1. I'm not anti vaccine in any way at all btw, just super cautious about this!

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Yes, they are...but...and here's the rub...would you engage (or encourage them to engage) in behaviour that increased their risk of developing sepsis? Looking at risk in the abstract by comparing how many people die in a particular way misses the point that if you can mitigate that risk, then you should (or at least you can). 

I agree with you and you have more more expertise here. But I was thinking does some of this go too far the other way though and it detrimentally impact mental health?

 

As in we take so many precautions it becomes a habit which is then very difficult to shift and forms the basis of OCD in some people. Especially young kids, I could see being susceptible to this. I appreciate it’s a very fine balancing act and at this stage is probably needed but I think it’s an interesting discussion. 

[Toilet Duck]

9 minutes ago, Waterdeep said:

If the spike mutates in the right way then those neutralising antibodies will no longer neutralise? They neutralised strain 1, then strain 2 infects and benefits from ADE? It seems like it's not common but it was an issue when attempts were made to make a vaccine for SARS1. I'm not anti vaccine in any way at all btw, just super cautious about this!

There's a lot of ifs and buts in there! The probability of multiple residues mutating within the receptor binding domain of the spike protein in such a way that escapes neutralising antibody interaction, but still preserves the ability to actually bind to the target receptor in human cells is pretty remote to be honest. One residue could change and the virus would still function while escaping from detection by one antibody, but by combining more than one, it's more likely that if the virus changed that much, it would no longer function as it currently does. 

[Toilet Duck]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I agree with you and you have more more expertise here. But I was thinking does some of this go too far the other way though and it detrimentally impact mental health?

 

As in we take so many precautions it becomes a habit which is then very difficult to shift and forms the basis of OCD in some people. Especially young kids, I could see being susceptible to this. I appreciate it’s a very fine balancing act and at this stage is probably needed but I think it’s an interesting discussion. 

Risk and how people perceive it is a funny thing. Some folk like to be able to compare to other risks, some are obsessive about it, some have a "sure I could be hit by a bus tomorrow" attitude to it. I agree entirely that perspective is key ( as well as accurate information) and some people are naturally more anxious than others so being bombarded with doomsday scenarios is proving difficult to cope with. If there are simple behaviour modifications that can help at this time, then i'd adapt them, sensible things rather than extreme measures...but even as a former microbiologist, I just have what I would think are good habits in terms of washing my hands and cleaning things...my wife is far more obsessive about these things than I am! 

[Toilet Duck]

51 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

A practical question on face shields .... my work are issuing them for some but as long as you dont touch them can they be used for an extended period of time ? and refused once cleaned thoroughly ...... and do shields provide any protection to the user if used sensibly .. logic tells me they do @Toilet Duck ? 

Howdy, yes, they’ll provide “some” protection. Mostly against people coughing or sneezing (or laughing or shouting!) straight at you. It’s not a force field, so previous advice on touching your face and washing your hands still applies. They can be sanitized safely and reused. Your employer should be providing some basic training in their use, if not, ask why not!

Edited May 20, 2020 by Toilet Duck

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Toilet Duck said:

Howdy, yes, they’ll provide “some” protection. Mostly against people coughing or sneezing (or laughing or shouting!) straight at you. It’s not a force field, so previous advice on touching your face and washing your hands still applies. They can be sanitized safely and reused. Your employer should be providing some basic training in their use, of not, ask why not!

Yep thought as much ... I’m sure I will be able to source better training ... I’ve just seen some training material that’s been put in our group showing the use of gloves and that’s certainly something I will not be doing !! Hand washing essential !! I’ve grown up with that mantra dealing with food thank you 

[Toilet Duck]

6 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Yep thought as much ... I’m sure I will be able to source better training ... I’ve just seen some training material that’s been put in our group showing the use of gloves and that’s certainly something I will not be doing !! Hand washing essential !! I’ve grown up with that mantra dealing with food thank you 

No worries!

 

[fred quimby]

Not too sure about anyone else but I want a picture of @Toilet Duck  on my wall (awaits all the pictures of the toilet cleaning product)

Like @stuartbert two hats I will certainly be buying you a pint at next years festival

Edited May 20, 2020 by fred quimby

[Toilet Duck]

2 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

Not too sure about anyone else but I want a picture of @Toilet Duck  on my wall (awaits all the pictures of the toilet cleaning product)

Like @Stuart Two Hats I will certainly be buying you a pint at next years festival

This would pretty much do it! (not really)😁

[Crazyfool01]

[fred quimby]

4 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

This would pretty much do it! (not really)😁

Too late - That is the image I will have of you now

[Toilet Duck]

Just now, fred quimby said:

Too late - That is the image I will have of you now

😂 (I'm ok with that to be honest!). 

[Bisque]

Social distancing becoming a bit of an issue today.

[Crazyfool01]

Good pressing for some dates today ... testing 200,000 contact tracing beginning of June ... what’s the odds ? 

[Cream Soda]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I agree with you and you have more more expertise here. But I was thinking does some of this go too far the other way though and it detrimentally impact mental health?

As in we take so many precautions it becomes a habit which is then very difficult to shift and forms the basis of OCD in some people. Especially young kids, I could see being susceptible to this. I appreciate it’s a very fine balancing act and at this stage is probably needed but I think it’s an interesting discussion. 

This is a really valid point.  Lots of long term fears/phobias etc come from childhood experiences and I do worry about the long term effect all this could have on some kids.  Especially considering they don't seem to be the most at risk or to be super spreaders like with flu etc.  Kids are at risk of all sorts of things all the time (way more so than Corona I would imagine). There is definitely a balance to be struck here and actions we take should be proportionate to the actual danger, not due to panic and fear that the media delights in drumming up.

I'm not keen on this "new normal" narrative we hear everywhere either.  Obviously things are different at the moment and it has to stay that way until some immunity is reached through whatever method but after that why would we not be going back to the way we were, once it is safe to do so?  I worry that some people are always going to have a fear of going near others without a mask etc, even after all this is over. Who knows the long term impact it might have on the way humans interact.

[Homer]

31 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Good pressing for some dates today ... testing 200,000 contact tracing beginning of June ... what’s the odds ? 

Another good effort from Starmer. Particuarly enjoyed Hanock getting threatened with being kicked out of the HofC.

Like your drunken girlfriend shouting in the background while you're losing a fight.

[DeanoL]

21 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I'm not keen on this "new normal" narrative we hear everywhere either.  Obviously things are different at the moment and it has to stay that way until some immunity is reached through whatever method but after that why would we not be going back to the way we were, once it is safe to do so? 

More fundamentally, some people may realise there are elements of life the past few months that they felt were actually improved, and want to maintain that.

Not having the lengthy daily commute into work is the obvious one, and there are some big far-reaching implications of that. From child care to the food industry.

[priest17]

I was out drinking the weekend before lockdown and there were so many lads washing their hands like it was a novelty thing to do, be nice if we all stuck to that ahah

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

This is a really valid point.  Lots of long term fears/phobias etc come from childhood experiences and I do worry about the long term effect all this could have on some kids.  Especially considering they don't seem to be the most at risk or to be super spreaders like with flu etc.  Kids are at risk of all sorts of things all the time (way more so than Corona I would imagine). There is definitely a balance to be struck here and actions we take should be proportionate to the actual danger, not due to panic and fear that the media delights in drumming up.

I'm not keen on this "new normal" narrative we hear everywhere either.  Obviously things are different at the moment and it has to stay that way until some immunity is reached through whatever method but after that why would we not be going back to the way we were, once it is safe to do so?  I worry that some people are always going to have a fear of going near others without a mask etc, even after all this is over. Who knows the long term impact it might have on the way humans interact.

My 2 year old nephew has already been picking up on things like leaving items by the front door and moving back if someone comes up to it. He’s seen the Postman do it so picks up on it. Ah the moment it’s kind of cute but it could be adding up in his growing brain.

 

Starmer once again had a good showing and showed Boris up today at PMQs. It wasn’t his strongest showing but it was noticeable that the PM was much more aggressive than he has been. I guess now things are getting under control the facade of nicety for the PM can fall away?

[steviewevie]

Johnson was much better briefed this time...

[zahidf]

 

[jparx]

36 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Johnson was much better briefed this time...

He had a different approach this time for sure. Much more on the offensive. Still not sure he came across well against Starmer, but definitely put up a more competent fight.