VE Day - a rant

[blutarsky]

tl;dr - VE Day is an excuse for jingoistic bullshit

Meant to come on and rant about this the other day, but didn't get round to it. I'm sure it's been covered elsewhere, but couldn't see a specific thread. 

Have the VE Day 'celebrations' wound anyone else right up, like it has me?

My first simple point would be that it's a commemoration of the end of a traumatic event that saw millions die, and people are celebrating it with a conga?  Doesn't seem appropriate to me, especially in the context of a lockdown! 

But the main thing that gets to me is this: of course I think we should remember a triumph over fascism, by many nations uniting, but it really gets to me that in this country it's an excuse for jingoistic, nationalistic bullshit where people act as if Britain alone won the war and is still the greatest nation in the world as a result. Plus the way lots of people talk about, 'during the war' etc, you'd think they fought in the fucking thing, rather than being born decades later. 

People seem to have this over inflated sense of national pride. There was a time Britain was THE super power of the world, but that was hundreds of years ago, and at the time the nation did lots of pretty awful things to lots of different groups of people. The Empire, by it's very nature, oppressed other groups of people and was inherently racist/discriminatory. Yet there seems to be a large chunk of our population that is proud of that and truth be told, probably does still see Johnny Foreigner as an uncultured savage in comparison to us civilised, largely white, folk from the British Isles.

And all this is based purely on having the good fortune to have been born on a certain lump of rock in the sea, which shows what bullshit nationalism is. Don't get me wrong, I feel I probably have more 'things' in common with people who grew up geographically near me because of a shared cultural understanding, and I like to support 'my' nation in sporting events because it's nice to feel part of something, but ultimately the only thing making me Welsh rather than English is an arbitrary line on a map. The only thing making someone one nationality rather than another might be where a river or sea or mountain happens to be.

In short, it got right on my fucking tits how so many people went out and proudly claimed 'we won the war against the Nazis' while sharing some similar views (British jobs for British people) to your average Nazi. When in fact what we should have been commemorating was diverse people from all over the world and different cultures coming together to endure enormous hardship in fighting against what they jointly felt was inherently wrong. Be proud your ancestors were part of that, not of where they came from. 

And don't even get me started on the twat round the corner from me with a sign in their garden which says: "we won the war in 1945, and we will win the fight against this virus'. Not even remotely the same mate - fuck off.  

Thanks for listening to my TED talk / scream into the abyss / moaning to an echo chamber. 

PS, not sorry if I offended anyone. If you're offended you've probably misunderstood.

[sparklecazza]

I totally understand. The day is one of total bullshittery.

[fred quimby]

On 5/11/2020 at 11:53 AM, blutarsky said:

 

My first simple point would be that it's a commemoration of the end of a traumatic event that saw millions die, and people are celebrating it with a conga?  Doesn't seem appropriate to me, especially in the context of a lockdown! 

 

 

Are you talking about the people in 1945? or was there Conga the other week. Must admit it mainly past me by

 

I love  a conga though, who doesn't

Edited May 18, 2020 by fred quimby

[feral chile]

I did see a video of a village clapping a 94 year old veteran, as he marched up the street on VE day.

I must admit that did get to me. I came over all emotional.

[MrZigster]

I read a tweet that described it as, "...fetishising a war beyond our comprehension, we should perhaps remember that those who actually had to live through it are now apparently making the ultimate sacrifice in care homes across Britain".
 

On 5/11/2020 at 11:53 AM, blutarsky said:

In short, it got right on my fucking tits how so many people went out and proudly claimed 'we won the war against the Nazis' while sharing some similar views (British jobs for British people) to your average Nazi. When in fact what we should have been commemorating was diverse people from all over the world and different cultures coming together to endure enormous hardship in fighting against what they jointly felt was inherently wrong. Be proud your ancestors were part of that, not of where they came from. 

This. I find it hard to feel celebratory when extremism seems to be making a resurgence across the globe.

It's almost like we learn nothing as a species.

 

[blutarsky]

17 hours ago, MrZigster said:

This. I find it hard to feel celebratory when extremism seems to be making a resurgence across the globe.

It's almost like we learn nothing as a species.

 

Depressing innit. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Just talking about the UK now.

What I find shameful is that many men and women gave their lives (the only ones they had - as far as we know) up in WWII to fight fascism, and to preserve our democracy (such that it is), and that 'we' have let them down. I say that because we are allowing the slow creep of Big Brother within our society, and doing nothing about it. 

The Stasi state did not just materialise / get beamed down from another planet. It was a continual slow (at first) erosion of civil liberties and freedoms. It eventually grew in pace and ended up with East Germany becoming a repressed state. 

We, the people of the UK, are currently allowing the police to wantonly use facial recognition surveillance without having been consulted about it, and whether we want it or not.

To my minds eye, we will lose our civil liberties and freedoms as sure as the East Germans did back in the day. 

So, we are effectively pissing on the graves of those who lost their lives on our behalf during WWII. Why? It's because we can't be arsed fighting it. I mean, it's not as if we'd be dodging bullets and bombs to do so. 

Anyway, for me, that changes today. I'm going to get involved in protest about the situation. I've mulled it over internally for too long now myself, and that's got to stop.

What you do, is up to you, your perspective, your conscience etc etc.

[gary1979666]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:09 PM, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Just talking about the UK now.

What I find shameful is that many men and women gave their lives (the only ones they had - as far as we know) up in WWII to fight fascism, and to preserve our democracy (such that it is), and that 'we' have let them down. I say that because we are allowing the slow creep of Big Brother within our society, and doing nothing about it. 

The Stasi state did not just materialise / get beamed down from another planet. It was a continual slow (at first) erosion of civil liberties and freedoms. It eventually grew in pace and ended up with East Germany becoming a repressed state. 

We, the people of the UK, are currently allowing the police to wantonly use facial recognition surveillance without having been consulted about it, and whether we want it or not.

To my minds eye, we will lose our civil liberties and freedoms as sure as the East Germans did back in the day. 

So, we are effectively pissing on the graves of those who lost their lives on our behalf during WWII. Why? It's because we can't be arsed fighting it. I mean, it's not as if we'd be dodging bullets and bombs to do so. 

Anyway, for me, that changes today. I'm going to get involved in protest about the situation. I've mulled it over internally for too long now myself, and that's got to stop.

What you do, is up to you, your perspective, your conscience etc etc.

I don't think we'd agree on a lot of that, but am curious as to your views on the track and trace apps for the lovely Covid?  

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

1 hour ago, gary1979666 said:

I don't think we'd agree on a lot of that, but am curious as to your views on the track and trace apps for the lovely Covid?  

I'm afraid that I have absolutely no knowledge of that track and trace app, as I've not read a single thing about it. I rely on my wife to look at all things covid-19, as she has a great interest in it. She has informed me that it is highly essential, but that's as far as we have discussed it. All I'm doing on that front is trying to stay away from people as much as possible, and I wash everything bought from the shops in Dettol.