Primavera Sound 2021

[Quadrophobia]

On 12/20/2020 at 10:36 PM, Quadrophobia said:

I'm getting one of those quick-test things tomorrow. Se how thatll go and if its viable fpr festivals.

Also, the vaccine ambitions are starting to crumble a bit. The distribution and early supply from pfizer/biontech aren't working 100% as planned and even if its only a small delay, that could cost 2-3 weeks in countries vaccination plans. Also the EU didn't order enough of it. They ordered more from Moderna, but thats only gotta be cleared by early January.

So, first things first, it was luckily negative.

Im somewhat undecided if theses tests will be feasible fpr 65.000 people festivals anytime this summer. 

On the Upside: They are available in quite large numbers (antigenetic tests, not PCR) and the results came back in less than 20 minutes. The procedure is easy and though it hurts, it is not too much of a big deal.

On the downside: the test ist quite costly, even if less so than a PCR. You need test equipment plus costs for sterile facilities and trained personell. Also, personell MUST be medical professionals, because you can actually do some damage if you don't know what you're doing. These costs could easily amount to a seven-digit figure. The test center I was at operated 12 hours a day and had 8 rooms for tests, going through around 800-1000 tests per day. For Primavera, you'd roughly need 150-times this size, as you would only have half the day and around 65.000 atendees. This means that in this scenario, you'd need about 1000 medical professionals (like med students), properly equipped facilities for them and a perfectly working digital procedure.

On top of that, a festival like Primavera would need to test every attendee every day of the festival (which amounts to almost 200.000 tests, provided Wednesday and Sunday were canceled, which they would be under these conditions) and would probably still miss many actual cases as theses tests are only about 97% accurate and cannot detect infections that are still in incubation. With the expected low vaccination rate among the core audiences, even minor fallout from testing might be a great risk in spreading the disease.

The other option I see is that every attendee gets testing equipment for the three days and has to hand in a sample every day, lets say an hour before entering.  This sample is preequipped with a unique code that connects to the card you get and that only lets you enter with a negative test provided that is then stored in that card. However, I can imagine, this gives way to a lot of cheating and will have to have the laboratories stem an even greater workload as peak times will be denser. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Quadrophobia

[Boss89]

7 hours ago, Quadrophobia said:

So, first things first, it was luckily negative.

Im somewhat undecided if theses tests will be feasible fpr 65.000 people festivals anytime this summer. 

On the Upside: They are available in quite large numbers (antigenetic tests, not PCR) and the results came back in less than 20 minutes. The procedure is easy and though it hurts, it is not too much of a big deal.

On the downside: the test ist quite costly, even if less so than a PCR. You need test equipment plus costs for sterile facilities and trained personell. Also, personell MUST be medical professionals, because you can actually do some damage if you don't know what you're doing. These costs could easily amount to a seven-digit figure. The test center I was at operated 12 hours a day and had 8 rooms for tests, going through around 800-1000 tests per day. For Primavera, you'd roughly need 150-times this size, as you would only have half the day and around 65.000 atendees. This means that in this scenario, you'd need about 1000 medical professionals (like med students), properly equipped facilities for them and a perfectly working digital procedure.

On top of that, a festival like Primavera would need to test every attendee every day of the festival (which amounts to almost 200.000 tests, provided Wednesday and Sunday were canceled, which they would be under these conditions) and would probably still miss many actual cases as theses tests are only about 97% accurate and cannot detect infections that are still in incubation. With the expected low vaccination rate among the core audiences, even minor fallout from testing might be a great risk in spreading the disease.

The other option I see is that every attendee gets testing equipment for the three days and has to hand in a sample every day, lets say an hour before entering.  This sample is preequipped with a unique code that connects to the card you get and that only lets you enter with a negative test provided that is then stored in that card. However, I can imagine, this gives way to a lot of cheating and will have to have the laboratories stem an even greater workload as peak times will be denser. 

 

 

Though you make some good points, all festivals in Europe are working together in making something like this work for next summer. So every point you can think of has probably been over-analyzed a hundred times by them already... If it was really as expensive/(impossible?) as you say. They wouldn't have communicated it that this is what most likely will happen and this is what every festival is working on for next summer. And they would've throw this idea off the table a couple of months ago. 

We, at forums like this, don't have to forget that they're working/thinking about festival stuff day in/day out 24/24 (not only corona-stuff but also line ups, time tables,...). Everything we talk about is probably discussed multiple times internally.

[xxialac]

To travel within the EU now (at a peak time for the virus unlike June) you just need to have taken a test within the previous 72 hours. You don't have to take it at the airport i.e. at the optimal time.

Testing every attendee every day just won't work for all the reasons you've cited.

The authorities may decide one test before the festival through a private provider (which will be readily available) whilst imperfect, is good enough.

Edited December 23, 2020 by xxialac

[Quadrophobia]

2 hours ago, Boss89 said:

Though you make some good points, all festivals in Europe are working together in making something like this work for next summer. So every point you can think of has probably been over-analyzed a hundred times by them already... If it was really as expensive/(impossible?) as you say. They wouldn't have communicated it that this is what most likely will happen and this is what every festival is working on for next summer. And they would've throw this idea off the table a couple of months ago. 

We, at forums like this, don't have to forget that they're working/thinking about festival stuff day in/day out 24/24 (not only corona-stuff but also line ups, time tables,...). Everything we talk about is probably discussed multiple times internally.

Totally agree that promoters will have had the same discussions and I believe they have come much further than we have in that process. Still, this might pose an insurmountable hurdle in the end, because the cost attached are too high. I hope it wont though. 

@xxialac you might be right and one test like that could be sufficient. If numbers are low enough in summer that would probably lower the risk far enough. 

I guess we'll have to wait until the current wave breaks. Countries like Germany that are in deep shit right now expect the peak of deaths in around 2-3 weeks, so early to mid January. If by then the numbers are not significantly lowered, it will be hard to envision a festival summer. 

[xxialac]

I think everything is now leaning towards June being too soon (low chance) but August/September being more than viable (very high chance).

Particularly as the decision needs to be made early and the consequences of misjudging it could be financially imperilling.

[Quadrophobia]

Just now, xxialac said:

I think everything is now leaning towards June being too soon (low chance) but August/September being more than viable (very high chance).

Particularly as the decision needs to be made early and the consequences of misjudging it could be financially imperilling.

One person from a booking agency said that indeed festivals are gambling for late summer, but that that might actually be a problem, because too many festivals will happen at the same time, so there will be a shortage in personell, equipment (many festivals actually share stages in a physical sense) and most problematic: Bands and audience to make them break even. Still think many festivals will cancel 2021 but I think Primavera might actually be in a better position than most, because of the advantages Parc Del Forum provides.

[Degu]

each test cost 5 euros, the price of small beer inside.....

[Ale]

I think festival season hqppening would be a real miracle that would deserve a movie or TV show, i'm not ironic, if they manage to put together tests, distance, bands etc they are amazing

[Andrej]

As someone wrote above, really hard to imagine anything happening in the early summer. Still some small chance for late August or September, but even that one I would put at around 20% the best. If we are being real, can anyone here imagine any government giving green light to 50,000 or 70,000 people without any distances, smashed together in a field, with tons of international concert goers freely travelling all over the world to shows. Just cant imagine that in 6-7 months from now. Shows will definitely return in 2021., it will be way better than 2020., some with social distance, some with smaller capacities etc. But unfortunately any massive big name summer festival can only take place if all systems are go and they can function at 100% cap.

And that will, I think, happen in 2022. at earliest.

 

 

 

 

[xxialac]

6 minutes ago, Andrej said:

Can anyone here imagine any government giving green light to 50,000 or 70,000 people without any distances, smashed together in a field, with tons of international concert goers freely travelling all over the world to shows.

 

 

 

 

I can!

• It has to happen at some point.
• The transmission rate can go from very high to very low in 1 month.
• It's outdoors
• Events contributes to jobs and livelihoods.
• There's testing now
• There's travel with testing now
• There are vaccines now, so death numbers will be no worse than the flu
• End of August would be in a whole 9 months' time. The pandemic started in earnest 9 months ago.

Edited December 23, 2020 by xxialac

[burnleynotbarcelona]

Definite chance of September IF the vaccine rollout goes to plan. What concerns me (in the UK) is that the people ultimately in charge of the rollout are the same people who have presided over the chaos to date. 

[Quadrophobia]

23 hours ago, Degu said:

each test cost 5 euros, the price of small beer inside.....

The test itself does, but the majority of the costs attached to a test are for staff (which, in most EU countries, must be medical professionals by law), facilities and procedural organisation. 

[xxialac]

First vaccinations have now happened in Spain. Reason to be positive...

[Fabrizzo]

2 hours ago, xxialac said:

First vaccinations have now happened in Spain. Reason to be positive...

Italy too... 🤞🤞🤞🤞

[gigi21]

Also AstraZeneca's CEO ensured everyone that their vaccine distribution will start on January 4th.

We officially entered the hope phase 🤞

[puckno]

On 12/23/2020 at 11:27 AM, xxialac said:

but August/September being more than viable (very high chance).

 

Just noticed the Hilton Diagonal Mar is fully booked September 9th through 12th (Thursday-Sunday). The Barcelona Princess, which used to be a Primavera hub, is still available. The Vincci Bit intended used this autumn do not have bookings open in general. 

There is a slight chance the September 9-12 is Primavera in progress... 

[xxialac]

35 minutes ago, puckno said:

Just noticed the Hilton Diagonal Mar is fully booked September 9th through 12th (Thursday-Sunday). The Barcelona Princess, which used to be a Primavera hub, is still available. The Vincci Bit intended used this autumn do not have bookings open in general. 

There is a slight chance the September 9-12 is Primavera in progress... 

That makes great sense frankly (though it might still be their plan B) and is very suspicious.

Great detective work...

(Incidentally can't see them pulling off Barcelona, LA and Porto in 3 consecutive weeks so perhaps they'll delay LA to 2022)

Edited December 28, 2020 by xxialac

[DDave]

1 hour ago, puckno said:

Just noticed the Hilton Diagonal Mar is fully booked September 9th through 12th (Thursday-Sunday). The Barcelona Princess, which used to be a Primavera hub, is still available. The Vincci Bit intended used this autumn do not have bookings open in general. 

There is a slight chance the September 9-12 is Primavera in progress... 

Came on here to post similar to you. Hotels in the area are more expensive that weekend than the weekend before. The AC is sold out too. Must be a back up weekend.

I'm gonna book a hotel for that weekend just in case.

[DDave]

Booked an Airbnb, lot cheaper than the hotels, free cancellation up to 3rd september.

[gigi21]

Sant Jordi Hostel Gracia, where I booked for June, has got completely different fares for September! 😦

I booked a private 4 persons room for 33,25 € per night (yes, the whole room!) for June. Now the same room costs 120€ per night for that week in September!

Everything makes sense...  

[xxialac]

13 minutes ago, gigi21 said:

Sant Jordi Hostel Gracia, where I booked for June, has got completely different fares for September! 😦

I booked a private 4 persons room for 33,25 € per night (yes, the whole room!) for June. Now the same room costs 120€ per night for that week in September!

Everything makes sense...  

A small hostel far from the Forum won't know or base their pricing on the secretive booking plans of Primavera Sound.

More likely that it's simply priced higher as they are expecting tourism to recover by then and it's peak season.

[gigi21]

8 minutes ago, xxialac said:

A small hostel far from the Forum won't know or base their pricing on the secretive booking plans of Primavera Sound.

More likely that it's simply priced higher as they are expecting tourism to recover by then and it's peak season.

You're right, the hostel fares are probably meaningless.

But, in general, hotel fares and availability look really different that week in September compared to the one in June. Maybe it's just the different optimism about tourists traveling to Barcelona. Or maybe...

[jannybruck]

4 minutes ago, gigi21 said:

You're right, the hostel fares are probably meaningless.

But, in general, hotel fares and availability look really different that week in September compared to the one in June. Maybe it's just the different optimism about tourists traveling to Barcelona. Or maybe...

Nah it's nothing to do with Primavera, hotel and hostel prices are algorithmically priced nowadays. It's likely to be higher for any number of reasons: more people searching because it's the end of school holidays so they think it'll be quieter, flight sales, first week in September so people think it'll be safe by then etc etc.

[Ohjesus]

hotel diagonal zero - literally opposite the fest - is still plenty bookable and not much more 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Ohjesus

[xxialac]

8 hours ago, puckno said:

Just noticed the Hilton Diagonal Mar is fully booked September 9th through 12th (Thursday-Sunday). The Barcelona Princess, which used to be a Primavera hub, is still available. The Vincci Bit intended used this autumn do not have bookings open in general. 

There is a slight chance the September 9-12 is Primavera in progress... 

September 11 is the National Day of Catalunya, diada, which would make it an interesting choice of day to close the festival at the forum (political independence undertones?).