news & politics:discussion

[squirrelarmy]

That £10 then would be worth £180 now. Would certainly help out those having to deal with extra costs at this time of year. 

[kaosmark2]

11 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Its interesting here the lies spouted in the UK about the USA system and the lies spouted in the USA about the UK system.  Vested interests and a lack of understanding / knowledge.

There is lots of schemes to bring health care to the poor in the USA.  Very few in reality go without.  Its a huge misconception.

My daughter needed treatment in the August in the USA.  It was exceptional (no doubt normal to the average american).  We waited less than 5 mis to see the doctor and was fully treated and patched up and out of the door in an hour.  UK it would of easily been at least 3 hours and no doubt 7 hours.  I did walk out with a £1600 bill ( from memory) but the health insurance took care of that.

Just because there are schemes doesn't mean millions don't get left behind. There are (imo too many) schemes here to support pensioners, that doesn't mean there aren't poor pensioners. There are schemes to help people with housing, that doesn't mean we don't have homelessness. 

Making things marginally better for the rich off bullying the poor is wrong, and that's what the US system does.

[LJS]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:09 PM, Neil said:

lets see how much the scots walk the walk of the claims for themselves "happy to pay higher taxes for higher services".

Hopefully those affected will be smart enough to work out whether they really will be "better off" elsewhere...

 

[Neil]

that very tiny tax difference is paying for a lot, or someone ^^ is lying about where the money for extras comes from, mostly stolen from other budgets.

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

About 9% of Americans have no coverage which is bad.  No one is pretending that is not an issue.

I would say 9% having no coverage makes it not worth it.

[Neil]

changing the uk system ~(if it happens) would only be happening to cut some people out of the service. i used to be of the view that services are waaaaay beyond anything i'll ever need (cos i'm generally very healthy), and then i had a big incident I'd hate to know the cost of the care and treatment i had over 28 weeks, and since with non-nhs support from a charity which now contracts its services to the nhs, and is fully-integrated into treatment plans.

i'm super-lucky to be in bristol which has the leading after-nhs stroke support  service.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

that very tiny tax difference is paying for a lot, or someone ^^ is lying about where the money for extras comes from, mostly stolen from other budgets.

I am glad you have acknowledged its a tiny tax difference. Presumably if it is tiny, folk are unlikely to be leaving in droves because of it.

[Zoo Music Girl]

14 hours ago, midnight said:

Yes. Thank you.

As some who reads this thread occasionally (and used to be more active on this forum), the constant needling, bickering and name calling is just unbelievably boring, and the temptation to join is practically zero.  

Thoroughly agree with this. I barely come here now because it's mainly the same few people bickering.

[Crazyfool01]

Id be screwed as someone with pre existing medical conditions in the US ... has anyone seen the cost of insulin?  although I believe Biden has brought the cost down somewhat . I dont think anyone can argue that the NHS isn't on its knees now and  its going to take time to sort it , My worry is Labour will continue with privatisation plans , I think they started under Blair maybe ?   maybe they should have a separate NHS and social care tax ? however its strength is in many of the people it employs and retaining those is massively important 

[fraybentos1]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

I am glad you have acknowledged its a tiny tax difference. Presumably if it is tiny, folk are unlikely to be leaving in droves because of it.

If you earn 50k then you pay £1552 more in tax per year than down south. That is not insignificant. 

[hodgey123]

The problem with reforming the NHS is that any discussion of its failings and the need for reform is almost always framed/dismissed as an attempt to privatise the entire system. This ignores the fact that there are many different, working systems between the UK and the US; it is not one or the other.

 

A sensible discussion needs to be had about its future - every single person I know that works in the NHS believes it is destined to fail sooner rather than later, but yet we just plod along throwing more money at it. 

[LJS]

7 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

If you earn 50k then you pay £1552 more in tax per year than down south. That is not insignificant. 

Most of that £1552 was already there. If you earn £50k you're only £63 "worse off" this year than last. So if you're selfish & avaricious enough to move for a % or two on tax, then you'll have gone already.

Byeeeee!

Edited December 18, 2022 by LJS

[steviewevie]

[pink_triangle]

22 hours ago, LJS said:

Hopefully those affected will be smart enough to work out whether they really will be "better off" elsewhere...

 

Free hospital parking sounds great in theory and it definitely is for out of town hospitals. However my experience in Wales is for hospitals in towns/cities people just use them for free parking and walk into town. The principle of free parking is a good one, but it doesn't always work in practice.

As for the others people may question if this is progressive us of taxpayers money. I would argue that millionaires should be paying for some of this stuff on top of their tax.

[fraybentos1]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

Most of that £1552 was already there. If you earn £50k you're only £63 "worse off" this year than last. So if you're selfish & avaricious enough to move for a % or two on tax, then you'll have gone already.

Byeeeee!

It's still 1500 more than you'd pay elsewhere. I wouldn't suggest many people would actively up sticks and move cause of it but if you're weighing up a decision between a job offer in scotland or england then it will be a factor. Also this is a salary of 50k we are talking about, it's a good salary but it hardly makes you rich.

[Neil]

22 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Id be screwed as someone with pre existing medical conditions in the US ... has anyone seen the cost of insulin?  although I believe Biden has brought the cost down somewhat . I dont think anyone can argue that the NHS isn't on its knees now and  its going to take time to sort it , My worry is Labour will continue with privatisation plans , I think they started under Blair maybe ?   maybe they should have a separate NHS and social care tax ? however its strength is in many of the people it employs and retaining those is massively important 

ffirst thing that needs doing is to restore the value of govt grants to councils so councils can again properly fund social care.

[kaosmark2]

41 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It's still 1500 more than you'd pay elsewhere. I wouldn't suggest many people would actively up sticks and move cause of it but if you're weighing up a decision between a job offer in scotland or england then it will be a factor. Also this is a salary of 50k we are talking about, it's a good salary but it hardly makes you rich.

I don't think that even offsets the difference in cost of living?

[Crazyfool01]

50 minutes ago, Neil said:

ffirst thing that needs doing is to restore the value of govt grants to councils so councils can again properly fund social care.

I was talking with my mate last night who's mum has been in a home for 4 years because of dementia and the costs of it ... and the struggle of that industry to get carers because of the poor pay . not quite sure why the costs of care are so astronomical and  the pay so rubbish ? why would carers choose wiping bums where a retail pay ( for example is similar ) Presumably an issue because its all driven by profit and shareholders ? 

[pink_triangle]

31 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I was talking with my mate last night who's mum has been in a home for 4 years because of dementia and the costs of it ... and the struggle of that industry to get carers because of the poor pay . not quite sure why the costs of care are so astronomical and  the pay so rubbish ? why would carers choose wiping bums where a retail pay ( for example is similar ) Presumably an issue because its all driven by profit and shareholders ? 

I work in the NHS in the community and a good carer can make a huge difference. The trouble is we undervalue them which results in huge turnover of staff. In my view it's short sighted as good carers result in less hospital admissions and therefore save money, but you need to invest to get those savings down the line. I agree with labour that a national care service is the way forward.

[Crazyfool01]

17 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I work in the NHS in the community and a good carer can make a huge difference. The trouble is we undervalue them which results in huge turnover of staff. In my view it's short sighted as good carers result in less hospital admissions and therefore save money, but you need to invest to get those savings down the line. I agree with labour that a national care service is the way forward.

I certainly don’t think there should be profit taken from peoples illness and misfortune as people become older … better pay which can be reinvested through taxation yes but national care and the removal of the need / lowering the need for agency work seems to be the way forward for both social care and the nhs in general . 

[fraybentos1]

10 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I don't think that even offsets the difference in cost of living?

do u mean the cost of living is cheaper in scotland than England? depends where you live tbh, Edinburgh is mad expensive, but everywhere in scotland is cheaper than the south east england/ london. Depends on ur circumstances really.

[fraybentos1]

10 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I was talking with my mate last night who's mum has been in a home for 4 years because of dementia and the costs of it ... and the struggle of that industry to get carers because of the poor pay . not quite sure why the costs of care are so astronomical and  the pay so rubbish ? why would carers choose wiping bums where a retail pay ( for example is similar ) Presumably an issue because its all driven by profit and shareholders ? 

Some people just have a passion for caring i guess, not just about money

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Some people just have a passion for caring i guess, not just about money

While I agree there are people with that passion, let's not castigate those who leave care for other roles. Most are not moving for huge salaries, they have children to feed and bills to pay. The answer is we need to value the role more, not just take advantage of people with a passion.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

Some people just have a passion for caring i guess, not just about money

People with a passion for caring sound like good people to pay well to keep in care.

[philipsteak]

22 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Free hospital parking sounds great in theory and it definitely is for out of town hospitals. However my experience in Wales is for hospitals in towns/cities people just use them for free parking and walk into town. The principle of free parking is a good one, but it doesn't always work in practice.

 

I know this has been a huge problem at my mum's local hospital (Bangor). It's a little way out of town too.