news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

except with gender recognition, its had the opposite effect.

Didn't support for independence increase when Westminster overruled?

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Didn't support for independence increase when Westminster overruled?

possibly, but i've seen a lot of comment saying "thank gawd there's Westminster protecting Scotland  from people who don't represent the Scottish people."

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

possibly, but i've seen a lot of comment saying "thank gawd there's Westminster protecting Scotland  from people who don't represent the Scottish people."

err..ok...but I think polls showed an increase of support for independence, also when courts overruled another referendum.

[Neil]

just reading the latest owen joneas, and i swear its written by mattiloy 😛

it has the same detachment from reality, that moves against corbyn is a purge of anyone left-ist, not wiping the shit off your shoe!

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, Neil said:

just reading the latest owen joneas, and i swear its written by mattiloy 😛

it has the same detachment from reality, that moves against corbyn is a purge of anyone left-ist, not wiping the shit off your shoe!

just read it, don't always agree with Jones but I do think he makes a few valid points here. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by steviewevie

[Guest]

Wow. 

[steviewevie]

It's all down to Morgan McSweeney - he is the main man behind the purge of the left in labour...but he lurks in the shadows, he is not like Mandelson.

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Wow. 

woah

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

just read it, don't always agree with Jones but I do think he makes a few valid points here. 

The trouble is Owen Jones is just a protester, full of what’s wrong, but lacking in ideas in terms of how problems can be solved in the real world, not the one he would like it to be. If Owen had his way RLB would be labour leader and the party would be more split than now. Do people think that alternative would be more likely to get the Tory’s out?

[Neil]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

We need more protection and safety measures in place to stop things like this happening. A sign saying "women only" wouldn't have helped a single bit here though would it?

And that's not to say there are *no* circumstances in which it does help. Such signposted spaces do, for example, empower a group of women to forcibly act against a single man trying to enter the space. Nor do I entirely buy the line that any man who is criminal enough to be willing to assault a woman would be happy to ignore a "women only" sign. It's far more complicated than that.

But it's impossible for a sensible conversation to be had about how to resolve that, when instead you get arguments like this one, when having s single-gender space would have made absolutely no difference.

Sturgeon got caught up in the only single sex issue which has no solutuon - prisons. 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

I do agree with this.  We need to move towards safer shared spaces.  This attempt to smash through barriers regardless of the danger or cost to give a tiny minority some extra rights they probably deserve is mental.  Its creating a dangerous situation for many more.  

It needs to be a process that takes places over tens of years and not over night.  It will take time to keep changing spaces to be shared AND safe.

A process that can only happen if public discussion is allowed. All the while people are sttacking the likes of jk for discussing the issues nothing is getting resolved. 

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

err..ok...but I think polls showed an increase of support for independence, also when courts overruled another referendum.

When they overruled a second ref yes, when they overruled GRR no 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The trouble is Owen Jones is just a protester, full of what’s wrong, but lacking in ideas in terms of how problems can be solved in the real world, not the one he would like it to be. If Owen had his way RLB would be labour leader and the party would be more split than now. Do people think that alternative would be more likely to get the Tory’s out?

I have no idea why Owen Jones doesn’t leave the Labour Party? He never seems happy, always moans about the leadership and spends a lot of his time skating the party. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Wow. 

Just imagine if this happened. Never fear Sir Keir. 

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I have no idea why Owen Jones doesn’t leave the Labour Party? He never seems happy, always moans about the leadership and spends a lot of his time skating the party. 

Why do corbyn and far age agree about ukraine?

[Neil]

Just now, Neil said:

Why do corbyn and far age agree about ukraine?

Follow the money!!! 

[steviewevie]

19 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The trouble is Owen Jones is just a protester, full of what’s wrong, but lacking in ideas in terms of how problems can be solved in the real world, not the one he would like it to be. If Owen had his way RLB would be labour leader and the party would be more split than now. Do people think that alternative would be more likely to get the Tory’s out?

he's a left wing media person...and he isn't alone in worrying how draconian labour MP selection etc has got under Starmer...and also not alone complaining that Starmer has reversed most of the stuff he said when he stood to be a leader, which just gives the impression that Starmer will lie and say anything to get into power...which is something the tories can and will use in the next election.

Edited February 17, 2023 by steviewevie

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

woah

I’m not sure who is the candidate to push the SNP on , but admittedly haven’t heard of all the contenders. 
 

As someone who wants labour to do well in the next election I hope they go for Forbes as I think her religious views would make it challenging in an election. I can’t imagine however she could get through a leadership election with these views.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Why do corbyn and far age agree about ukraine?

yeah...far left and far right both seem to be Putin apologists, but reasons are different.. Far right like Putin's macho illiberal ant-woke thing...far left buy the whole nato expansionist/imperialist theory, and anyway basically all evil comes from US/Israel. Plus, Corbyn is a pacifist, so will always push for negotiations over fighting/war/death.

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I have no idea why Owen Jones doesn’t leave the Labour Party? He never seems happy, always moans about the leadership and spends a lot of his time skating the party. 

From a business perspective it probably drives social media and book sales.

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

he's a left wing media person...and he isn't alone in worrying how draconian labour MP selection etc has got under Starmer...and also not alone that Starmer has reversed most of the stuff when he stood to be a leader, which just gives the impression that Starmer will lie and say anything to get into power...which is something the tories can and will use in the next election.

The selections were no different under Corbyn when candidates favoured by him were prioritised. It happens under every leader.

In terms of the pledges, he could have been completely honest and said exactly what he intended to do. RLB would have been elected leader and her incompetency would have been a far greater weapon in the general election.

I think these pledges may upset a fringe on social media, the average swing voter doesn’t care. In fact they probably think if he is turning his back on things supported by Corbyn, he is probably not doing too much wrong.

 

 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

The selections were no different under Corbyn when candidates favoured by him were prioritised. It happens under every leader.

In terms of the pledges, he could have been completely honest and said exactly what he intended to do. RLB would have been elected leader and her incompetency would have been a far greater weapon in the general election.

I think these pledges may upset a fringe on social media, the average swing voter doesn’t care. In fact they probably think if he is turning his back on things supported by Corbyn, he is probably not doing too much wrong.

 

 

from what I have read it goes far further than what happened under Corbyn.

Yeah, so he lied. I mean I understand why...it won him the election. And maybe it will win him the general election too. But, a lie is a lie, and often it comes back to bite you in the bum. (and I quite like RLB too).

[Neil]

I see Diane Abbott has confirmed that jezza wanted brexit which many of us always knew but his fanclub refused to recognise. 

[steviewevie]

Jones isn't the only commentator going on about this...not necessairly about Corbyn, but kicking out the left...

Labour must be a broad church. Starmer’s purge of the left puts his future government in peril | Neal Lawson | The Guardian

Starmer is right to stop Corbyn standing for Labour at the next election – but he mustn’t purge dissent | Polly Toynbee | The Guardian

This senseless lawsuit could bankrupt the Labour party and let the Tories win again | George Monbiot | The Guardian

The Guardian view on Labour and antisemitism: two cheers for Keir Starmer | Editorial | The Guardian

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

From a business perspective it probably drives social media and book sales.

You are probably right, I wonder what he’ll do if Corbyn stands as an independent.

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The selections were no different under Corbyn when candidates favoured by him were prioritised. It happens under every leader.

In terms of the pledges, he could have been completely honest and said exactly what he intended to do. RLB would have been elected leader and her incompetency would have been a far greater weapon in the general election.

I think these pledges may upset a fringe on social media, the average swing voter doesn’t care. In fact they probably think if he is turning his back on things supported by Corbyn, he is probably not doing too much wrong.

 

 

I’d agree with this as well, I don’t think the average voter cares at all about Starmers leadership pledges.

I’m pretty sure Corbyn did force candidates on CLPs, he might have done so with Sam Tarry?