news & politics:discussion

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, lost said:

Not just the UK.

we just had the worst of both 220,000 deaths and now big excess death 

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...so Sunak is going to make that argument after the findings? Why not make it then...or now?

Politically I think in his situation it’s best to just say wait until the enquiry has reported, some will be after the next election. If the enquiry comes back saying he ignored science, easy to mitigate talking about economic impact of lockdown, impact on mental health and education, which are factors beyond the science. There may be gotcha messages amongst the WhatsApp, but it won’t be what the Guardian are saying.

[lost]

9 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

we just had the worst of both 220,000 deaths 

I honestly can't believe people genuinely believe this outside of wanting to bash the Tories.

Deaths under 50 with no under lying health conditions statistically zero. Deaths 50 - 60 within the margin of error for that age range. From 60 your risk doubles every 5 years with the average age of death above life expectancy. That data has been available since February 2020. This is a disease of the old and infirm who have numerous underlying health conditions.

you think our political class would of been partying away otherwise if they thought they were going to die?

Edited June 4, 2023 by lost

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

I honestly can't believe people genuinely believe this outside of wanting to bash the Tories.

Deaths under 50 with no under lying health conditions statistically zero. Deaths 50 - 60 within the margin of error for that age range. From 60 your risk of doubles every 5 years with the average age of death above life expectancy. That data has been available since February 2020. This is a disease of the old and infirm who have numerous underlying health conditions.

you think our political class would of been partying away otherwise if they thought they were going to die?

ive got an underlying health condition and a friend lost his dad who was in his 50s with no known underlying conditions 

[lost]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

ive got an underlying health condition and a friend lost his dad who was in his 50s with no known underlying conditions 

 Healthy people die from the flu. I'm saying there was no significant uptick in those age ranges vs normal.

Edited June 4, 2023 by lost

[Crazyfool01]

and yep im happy to bash the tories over this they were absolute assholes over the whole thing . however the discussions around covid im going to avoid from now as its probably better not to go over over a topic that causes tension on here .... agree to disagree i think is probably the way to go 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Politically I think in his situation it’s best to just say wait until the enquiry has reported, some will be after the next election. If the enquiry comes back saying he ignored science, easy to mitigate talking about economic impact of lockdown, impact on mental health and education, which are factors beyond the science. There may be gotcha messages amongst the WhatsApp, but it won’t be what the Guardian are saying.

We'll just have to see.  Apparently Sunak didn't seek advice for eat out to help out from govt own scientists...and it led to a rise in infections...and Sunak was going on about following the science all the time and doing all his glossy ads. Some SAGE bloke said it was a sh*t idea and a dodgy as f**k way to spend loads of money.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

I honestly can't believe people genuinely believe this outside of wanting to bash the Tories.

Deaths under 50 with no under lying health conditions statistically zero. Deaths 50 - 60 within the margin of error for that age range. From 60 your risk doubles every 5 years with the average age of death above life expectancy. That data has been available since February 2020. This is a disease of the old and infirm who have numerous underlying health conditions.

you think our political class would of been partying away otherwise if they thought they were going to die?

not sure it's about bash the tories, people just want answers...it was a massive event for the country, and we need to know for next time.

Maybe the outcome will say it was just a bad cold and we all got hysterical and next time we should just keep calm and carry on and maybe wash hands bit more than usual and ignore the scientists and experts.

[steviewevie]

this lot did a report on following the science during covid...touches on eat out to help out scheme.

science-advice-crisis_0.pdf (instituteforgovernment.org.uk)

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

not sure it's about bash the tories, people just want answers...it was a massive event for the country, and we need to know for next time.

Maybe the outcome will say it was just a bad cold and we all got hysterical and next time we should just keep calm and carry on and maybe wash hands bit more than usual and ignore the scientists and experts.

He has history of being a Covid denier type, it’s best to not give him and air time.

If we had put measures in place earlier then the lockdowns wouldn’t have had to be as strict as they were that was a massive Tory failure and one that the Covid deniers conveniently skip over. 

[Justiceforcedave]

Doesn’t really matter how well or not they handled things. This inquiry is going to shine a light on plenty of things which won’t be very helpful for Sunak coming up to a GE. 

I’m not so naive to think that Labour wouldn’t have made some of the same mistakes, and some totally different ones. Thing is, the Tories were in power and many of the problems encountered were exacerbated by existing policies.

Ergo, when Rishi is on the campaign trail saying “We’re going to look after the NHS” and one week later an inquiry report comes out saying that cuts were in part responsible for the pressure on hospitals, it’s not a good look. Or when he’s flying the flag for integrity, and the media start talking about all the sh*t PPE we bought through Dodgy contracts causing issues… he’s gonna have problems!

[lost]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe the outcome will say it was just a bad cold and we all got hysterical and next time we should just keep calm and carry on and maybe wash hands bit more than usual and ignore the scientists and experts.

Thankfully they did when Omicron hit or we'd probably still be in lockdown.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

Thankfully they did when Omicron hit or we'd probably still be in lockdown.

we were vaccined up to our eyeballs.

[steviewevie]

Actually the one massive success that came out of covid was the vaccines...I remember in early days watching newsnight and they were saying that we're going to be a bit f**ked until we get a vaccine, and that could be a decade away. It all felt a bit bleak.

[lost]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

we were vaccined up to our eyeballs.

So you admit sage were wrong then. Covid denier! 😂

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, lost said:

So you admit sage were wrong then. Covid denier! 😂

they gave a range of forecasts...govt made a gamble that worst wouldn't come off...thankfully they were right. They were also going off what was happening in S Africa, and also the public were getting a bit fed up especially now that everyone was vaccinated.

[Guest]

The government regularly ignored the advice from their medical/scientific advisors, remember the build up to the 2nd lockdown and also Christmas 2020? Starmer called from a circuit breaker lockdown before the Autumn half term. Nearly everyone was screaming we needed more severe measures but the government did nothing, so as a result the virus was spread around more and we needed even stricter/longer restrictions. 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, lost said:

The big issue for me is excess death is currently running as high as it was during covid and nobody appears to give a sh*t as the deaths are not first item on the news.

aren't the excess deaths just the oldies dying off who  normally would have died during the lockdown (so their lives were extended),,,, and its thigs just catching up.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

not sure it's about bash the tories, people just want answers...it was a massive event for the country, and we need to know for next time.

Maybe the outcome will say it was just a bad cold and we all got hysterical and next time we should just keep calm and carry on and maybe wash hands bit more than usual and ignore the scientists and experts.

I suspect the most useful parts of the enquiry will be the boring stuff that won’t make headlines, but will prepare us in the future. However the future will have to take into consideration what people will be willing to do. Even if the science says to not see dying relatives and not go to funerals people will probably ignore it. The science is important, but how you balance looking after the old lady in the care home, the child in school and the teenager who wants to be with their mates is always going to be political choices and ones I wouldn’t want to make.

We will never know what different choices labour would have made, I don’t think you can assume what they say in opposition is how they would act in power. To me as a scientist what is really useful (and am not sure if covered by the enquiry) is how different countries acted and the impact that this had on outcomes.

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I suspect the most useful parts of the enquiry will be the boring stuff that won’t make headlines, but will prepare us in the future. However the future will have to take into consideration what people will be willing to do. Even if the science says to not see dying relatives and not go to funerals people will probably ignore it. The science is important, but how you balance looking after the old lady in the care home, the child in school and the teenager who wants to be with their mates is always going to be political choices and ones I wouldn’t want to make.

We will never know what different choices labour would have made, I don’t think you can assume what they say in opposition is how they would act in power. To me as a scientist what is really useful (and am not sure if covered by the enquiry) is how different countries acted and the impact that this had on outcomes.

if Corbyn had won we wouldn't have had covid.

FACT

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

Ukraine has invaded Russia. 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

if Corbyn had won we wouldn't have had covid.

FACT

cotbyn, also known as kanute!

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

Would it be cynical to think Burnham has an eye on getting the Corbynite support in a future leadership contest?