news & politics:discussion

[Superscally]

Wonder if there would ever be an appetite for a UN-formulated, globally financed relocation of the Gaza population to an area evacuated by Israelis to give a one-block, recognised Palestine in the area of West Bank, with Jerusalem becoming a jointly held city, as a symbol of healing with borders and religions respected.

Just seems...sensible?

[Neil]

24 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Wonder if there would ever be an appetite for a UN-formulated, globally financed relocation of the Gaza population to an area evacuated by Israelis to give a one-block, recognised Palestine in the area of West Bank, with Jerusalem becoming a jointly held city, as a symbol of healing with borders and religions respected.

Just seems...sensible?

there's no way either side would accept an outcome which didn't give  all their wanted land. both sides believe they have a divine right to that land.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Neil

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

there's no way either side would accept an outcome which didn't give  all their wanted land. both sides believe they have a divine right to that land.

israel are a bit like putin, a belief in land that ia thers -israel wants, gaza, west bank, s golan heights, and half of lebanon - think they've given up on wanting jordan.

[Neil]

Just seen that DWP have thrown me more money, can't believe how much hits my bank account.not sure if everyone getting benefits feels as positive about it as me.

[steviewevie]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I’m thinking wider though. It’s not just a poor choice of words by you, it’s pretty common for people to talk about pro/anti Israel. You don’t seem to get this for other countries. I’m not sure why this is.

I mean it's kind of obvious why this is...because of it's history, zionism, the creation of the state of Israel and what that meant for Palestinians.

[Ryan1984]

11 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

good policy that .... hopefully they can jail some of the assholes involved too . 

I agree but I feel the general public are kind of over Covid now and are trying to just internalise those couple of years (hence the rise in deniers and conspiracy theorists). Not sure it’s a vote winner?

[pink_triangle]

58 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I mean it's kind of obvious why this is...because of it's history, zionism, the creation of the state of Israel and what that meant for Palestinians.

There is load of sh*t history everywhere, including here. Yet you don’t seem to get as many people judging other countries as a complete entity.

[fraybentos1]

I see Labour’s big grand policy to solve the housing crisis is a mortgage guarantee scheme to keep overinflated prices over inflated. Morons.

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

There is load of sh*t history everywhere, including here. Yet you don’t seem to get as many people judging other countries as a complete entity.

yes, sure...but I guess as more recent...and the fact that many people never actually accepted the state of Israel, especially in that region...because it is a state created for a particular race.....and because general anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

But yes, go back in the past and far greater atrocities have been committed in the creation of new nation states... N America and Australia for example.

[steviewevie]

Not only will this middle east conflict drown out any groovy policies or vision or whatever coming out of the Labour conference, it also risks opening up divisions over Israel/Palestine.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, fraybentos1 said:

I see Labour’s big grand policy to solve the housing crisis is a mortgage guarantee scheme to keep overinflated prices over inflated. Morons.

its a way of borrowiung without loading debt onto govt.

[Neil]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Not only will this middle east conflict drown out any groovy policies or vision or whatever coming out of the Labour conference, it also risks opening up divisions over Israel/Palestine.

that'd be damaging to election chances.

[fraybentos1]

19 minutes ago, Neil said:

its a way of borrowiung without loading debt onto govt.

How? 

[Neil]

9 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

How? 

because the govt would only be a guarantor, the loanee would be the house-buyer - like with a normal mortgage.

the govt would really be doing is speeding up the mortgage process.

 

[fraybentos1]

7 minutes ago, Neil said:

because the govt would only be a guarantor, the loanee would be the house-buyer - like with a normal mortgage.

the govt would really be doing is speeding up the mortgage process.

 

Yes but what happens when/ if they need bailed out. Taxpayers on the hook. It’s a dumb idea. It is not the government’s job to bail people out over and over again, it’s partially why we are in this mess in the first place. 

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Yes but what happens when/ if they need bailed out.

yes, a known percentage will need bailing out. they won't be getting unaffordable mortgages.

[fraybentos1]

7 minutes ago, Neil said:

yes, a known percentage will need bailing out. they won't be getting unaffordable mortgages.

Clearly it’s unaffordable if they need bailed out.

 Why should all taxpayers be on the hook for this? The government is determined to meddle in the housing market as much as possible to inflate house prices. 

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Clearly it’s unaffordable if they need bailed out.

 Why should all taxpayers be on the hook for this? The government is determined to meddle in the housing market as much as possible to inflate house prices. 

its the only way of paying for the promised new housing, govt can't take on the debt, so the punters will have to - like they normally do when buying a house, govt is just smoothing the mortgage process, with a risk, but a known risk, and not a huge risk cos its secured against an asset.

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Clearly it’s unaffordable if they need bailed out.

 Why should all taxpayers be on the hook for this? The government is determined to meddle in the housing market as much as possible to inflate house prices. 

its not about meddling with house prices its about creating a situation were the wanna-buys are able to buy.

 

you wouldn't have a problem with meddling with prices if it was taking them down.

 

unfortunately enabling buyers supports prices, so should they do nothing instead. don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

 

[Neil]

9 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Clearly it’s unaffordable if they need bailed out.

not necessarily unaffordable, there's also "don't wanna pays!"

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

its not about meddling with house prices its about creating a situation were the wanna-buys are able to buy.

 

you wouldn't have a problem with meddling with prices if it was taking them down.

 

unfortunately enabling buyers supports prices, so should they do nothing instead. don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

 

I don’t want any ‘meddling with prices’ I was affordable housing and no daft scenes such as help to buy (you’d have supported this too probs even tho it objectively raised prices and made it harder for FTBs), stamp duty holiday etc. 

Yes they should do nothing in this context, whatever happened to letting the market act naturally?

[Neil]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

affordable housing

not possible unless you know builders who work for free, and who have free materials.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Yes they should do nothing in this context, whatever happened to letting the market act naturally?

that's prtty much what its been doing, prices are high cos thats the market price. they weren't giving houses away at any point in the last 50 years.

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

not possible unless you know builders who work for free, and who have free materials.

You keep saying this and you must think it’s an intelligent point to make but let me tell you, it isn’t. You seem to act like by ‘affordable’ I mean free. 

 

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

that's prtty much what its been doing, prices are high cos thats the market price. they weren't giving houses away at any point in the last 50 years.

Help to buy and stamp duty holiday. 2 interventions which raised prices. Google it.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

You keep saying this and you must think it’s an intelligent point to make but let me tell you, it isn’t. You seem to act like by ‘affordable’ I mean free. 

 

Help to buy and stamp duty holiday. 2 interventions which raised prices. Google it.

yeah, they did, enabling the wanna buys to buy will also raise prices, so its either houses for people and higher prices  or nothing. there's no magic solution, cos there's always a market.