news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

24 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Woman held on suspicion of supporting Hamas after Brighton protest

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-67100648

Here come the thought police

the article says .... 

Quote

Supporting Hamas is therefore an offence under terror legislation

i'm happy with the general idea that displays of support for terrorist groups  are outlawed. woman can think what she likes,  its the following thru on her thinking which is the problem, the following thru might  be an act of terrorism.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Neil

[steviewevie]

Hamas is actually a big organisation right? and like many terrorist groups has it's political wing, and it's military wing. It's military wing really is the terrorist part that carried out the attack on Saturday, and seem to be calling the shots now. 

I am not sure if any other governments are labelled terrorists. It's kind of unusual, right? Would the Nazi party have been? Or Khmer Rouge, or CCP under Mao, or Tony Blair's New Labour?

[steviewevie]

anyway, something we can all agree on...Labour under Starmer is just so awesome...

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Man, the sh*t on here, and everywhere. What Hamas did is bad. What Israel is doing now in Gaza is bad. Both can be true.

I agree, some of the stuff seen online is so crazy. Both are doing things that are bad, some of it is truly awful.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation though, they are on the proscribed list and if someone is seen as supporting them in this country then they could get in trouble with the Police. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Hamas is actually a big organisation right? and like many terrorist groups has it's political wing, and it's military wing. It's military wing really is the terrorist part that carried out the attack on Saturday, and seem to be calling the shots now. 

I am not sure if any other governments are labelled terrorists. It's kind of unusual, right? Would the Nazi party have been? Or Khmer Rouge, or CCP under Mao, or Tony Blair's New Labour?

the whole thing with terrorists changed on 9/11 and palestine/israel has a long history, the big news was the munich olympics thing, and a number of plane hijackings (almost weekly) all easily fitting most people's idea of terrorism.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

anyway, something we can all agree on...Labour under Starmer is just so awesome...

 

Sunak’s ratings are dreadful!

[Neil]

18 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Just had a look at the proscribed list, neither of those are listed.

it's not the Hamas govt that's proscribed, its the military wing. same as Iran's republican guard are proscribed, and Wagner group.

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

it's not the Hamas govt that's proscribed, its the military wing. same as Iran's republican guard are proscribed, and Wagner group.

That used to be the case, but now it's all of Hamas, as far as I understand.

The United States designated Hamas as a terrorist organisation in 1995, as did Canada in November 2002, and the United Kingdom in November 2021. The European Union designated Hamas's military wing in 2001 and, under US pressure, designated Hamas in 2003. Hamas challenged this decision,which was upheld by the European Court of Justice in July 2017. Japan and New Zealand have designated the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization. The organization is banned in Jordan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Edited October 13, 2023 by Skip997

[Guest]

The Covid inquiry is coming up with some interesting bits. 

[Neil]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The Covid inquiry is coming up with some interesting bits. 

isn't there a known dislike of lee cain and carrie?

she got him sacked or summit. i think.

[Crazyfool01]

c**t preparing us for higher energy prices 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

isn't there a known dislike of lee cain and carrie?

she got him sacked or summit. i think.

Yeah possibly, wasn’t that one the reasons Cummings went too?

[steviewevie]

 

[Skip997]

Just making sure that people are aware that Israeli wasn't created through some lovely cuddly negotiation process.

It was created via violent dispersal of the indigenous population which included several massacres of thousands of locals.

[Neil]

50 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

It was created via violent dispersal of the indigenous population which included several massacres of thousands of locals.

the history is muddy with claims of " he started it" from both sides.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

the history is muddy with claims of " he started it" from both sides.

Depends how far back you want to go.

I thought the creation of the State of Israel might be a reasonable start.

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Depends how far back you want to go.

I thought the creation of the State of Israel might be a reasonable start.

they started slaughtering each other when Jews started moving their and buying land and houses- that was before the creation of Israel, and implicitly encouraged by the balfour declaration.

[steviewevie]

21 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Depends how far back you want to go.

I thought the creation of the State of Israel might be a reasonable start.

Could go back 3000 years ago I guess.

[steviewevie]

this one has some cute graphics, dodgy spelling, and he keeps calling six day war sixty day war.

 

[steviewevie]

one thing I found out recently is how in the 40s the labour left were the zionists, and Bevan was considered a massive antisemite.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

this one has some cute graphics, dodgy spelling, and he keeps calling six day war sixty day war.

 

I’ve watched that, it’s really informative. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’ve watched that, it’s really informative. 

I mean, there's a lot of stuff to cram into 10 minutes...so probably a fair amount of detail missed out!

[lazyred]

22 hours ago, philipsteak said:

https://megaphone.link/NSR6112440939

This is an interesting discussion (Conflicted Podcast) about it. It's also a very interesting podcast generally. I don't always agree with them and the jokiness can be a bit annoying at times but they do know what they are talking about, certainly more than me! I've learnt a lot from them.

(basically what you said, Iran and Saudi Arabia, mostly Iran)

Thanks for this, I've just listened. It's really good giving the context for whats happening in the middle east at the moment. I learnt a lot about the mexican stand offs between Isreal, Iran and the Saudis. How much better it could be if those agreements had come off with the Palestinian Authority back in Gaza, the Saudi projects enabled by nuclear power, more trade and security for Isreal, new trade routes from India through to Greece. All derailed by Hamas presumably instructed by Iran. Also terrifiying about the possible consequences if the conflict spreads more widely.

[Skip997]

Tensions high in London following Hamas attack in Israel

Helena Wilkinson

BBC News
 

Quote

 

I've been across a remote briefing by Deputy Assistant Commissioner Laurence Taylor from the Metropolitan police.

He said tensions in London were high following the Hamas attack in Israel last Saturday.

As a result he said the force had put a "very significant policing operation" in place to support communities across the capital.

More than 1000 officers have been dedicated to this task.

The Met says thousands of people are expected at pro-Palestinian protests in London tomorrow.

Taylor made it clear that whilst people have the "right to protest, they do not have the right to incite violence".

When it comes to flags and banners, he said the law was very clear; that anyone waving a flag in support of Hamas or other proscribed organisations will be arrested.

He said anyone possessing or waving a Palestinian flag without any other context would not be committing any offence, but if it's associated with other actions they could be.

 

Doesn't look very clear to me.

Expecting lots of ridiculous arrests.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Tensions high in London following Hamas attack in Israel

Helena Wilkinson

BBC News
 

Doesn't look very clear to me.

Expecting lots of ridiculous arrests.

I guess means don't go waving a Palestine flag in a Jewish area where could provoke trouble.